[Thvor]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how one would go about setting a bomb to take out a vehicle (either road-side or something the vehicle drives over) according to the RAW, and I'm not sure I'm getting things right. If this sort of attack is spelled out in the RAW, please tell me where; all I've been able to find is using explosives vs. barriers, explosives vs. people, and non-explosives vs. vehicles.

According to SR4a, "Whenever a vehicle is hit by an attack, it resists damage as normal, rolling Body + Armor. If the attack’s modified DV does not exceed the vehicle’s modified Armor, no damage is applied." A GMC Bulldog Step-Van has Body 16, Armor 8. So when the bomb goes off, the van resists with 24 dice; buying hits, that's 6. To force the driver to test against crashing, the modified DV needs to exceed the vehicle's body--so the base DV needs to be greater than 22. I think.

The DV for a bomb, from Arsenal pages 94 & 95, is "...calculated using the normal rules: the square root of the number of kilograms of explosive, multiplied by the explosives' rating..." So to get a DV greater than 22 using commercial explosives (rating 3), we're looking at a minimum of 54 kilos, or about 120 pounds? (using rating 10 foam explosives is notably better--only 5 kg for that.)

Oh, but wait, the quote from Arsenal continues: "each net hit rolled by the maker increases the DV by 1". So the player can make the bomb more powerful (and the example does so). Except the test to make the bomb is an extended test; how do you get net hits on that? Do you just count the excess hits on the final roll of the test?

Oh, and let's not forget that area-effect attacks (like a bomb going off) affect both passengers and vehicles. If the explosion's base DV is greater than 22 (as figured up above), and the driver is 2m away from the bomb when it goes off, he's looking at resisting 19 or more damage with Body + Impact Armor--or, put simply, he's likely killed instantly.

I'm really not convinced that I'm reading the rules correctly, as some of these calculations seem really off-the-wall to me. Help?

[UmaroVI]

The rules for damaging vehicles can be charitably described as a ridiculous mess. The rules for explosives were written by someone who though that including square roots of kilograms of explosives in the calculation was a good idea, but never actually stopped to do the math and figure out if the results made even the slightest bit of sense. When you combine them, you are going to get an utter mess.

My suggestion is to have it work by forcing the vehicle to make a Crash Test, with a threshold set by the Demolitions roll. Or something along those lines.

[Thvor]

Ok. Guess I'll take it up with my GM, then. 

I have to say, part of me is glad that my confusion wasn't, well, my fault. 

[UmaroVI]

One other thing you might find useful is a Spike Strip (Arsenal). If they don't have smart or run-flat tires it's practically a guaranteed crash, since they have to make a test at -2 per tire. Even if you do decide to use explosives, it might be worth combining them.

[All4BigGuns]

One other thing you might find useful is a Spike Strip (Arsenal). If they don't have smart or run-flat tires it's practically a guaranteed crash, since they have to make a test at -2 per tire. Even if you do decide to use explosives, it might be worth combining them.

Or if you have prep time and access to the vehicle in question (which if you're using explosives that use the demolitions skill, you should), just duct tape two or three monofilament grenades inside the fenders either on timers or rigged up to accept a remote detonator to shred the tires (can avoid a spike strip, but can't avoid three monofilament grenades going off in their fenders).

[_Pax_]

Nah, use barrier-foam grenades.  Even runflats won't help you, when you're suddenly sliding around on a concrete slab!!

[redwolf]

One other thing you might find useful is a Spike Strip (Arsenal). If they don't have smart or run-flat tires it's practically a guaranteed crash, since they have to make a test at -2 per tire. Even if you do decide to use explosives, it might be worth combining them.

Or if you have prep time and access to the vehicle in question (which if you're using explosives that use the demolitions skill, you should), just duct tape two or three monofilament grenades inside the fenders either on timers or rigged up to accept a remote detonator to shred the tires (can avoid a spike strip, but can't avoid three monofilament grenades going off in their fenders).

Nah, use barrier-foam grenades.  Even runflats won't help you, when you're suddenly sliding around on a concrete slab!!

o.k wegot a need of  dead monky naw 

[TheNarrator]

Oh, and let's not forget that area-effect attacks (like a bomb going off) affect both passengers and vehicles. If the explosion's base DV is greater than 22 (as figured up above), and the driver is 2m away from the bomb when it goes off, he's looking at resisting 19 or more damage with Body + Impact Armor--or, put simply, he's likely killed instantly.

Don't forget that the driver has a barrier between himself and the bomb: the vehicle itself. So as per the rules for attacking through barriers, the driver would gain the vehicle's armor as a bonus to his damage resistance test. Yes, that will still probably drop your unarmored average Joe... but that's to be expected. An unmodified delivery truck isn't designed to withstand bomb attacks. (Should've brought a Citymaster.)

Directly attaching the bomb to the truck with a demolitions roll would halve its armor, and tamping (covering the bomb with something to direct the blast towards the target) will double the DV, as per the table in Arsenal.

Commercial Explosives aren't designed to be used as a weapon, so I assume that in the setting they are deliberately kept quite weak so that they're only useful when carefully placed in large quantities by a trained demolitions expert. The Foam and Plastic Explosives, however, are sadly rather expensive at any decent rating which makes them rather impractical given the quantities needed according to the rules.

I tend to just have my characters buy HE grenades and replace the fuses with detonators instead. It's cheaper and it weighs less. Just treat each one like a kilogram of Rating 10 explosive and you'll get your 22 DV explosion on a budget.

[Xzylvador]

According to SR4a, "Whenever a vehicle is hit by an attack, it resists damage as normal, rolling Body + Armor. If the attack’s modified DV does not exceed the vehicle’s modified Armor, no damage is applied." A GMC Bulldog Step-Van has Body 16, Armor 8. So when the bomb goes off, the van resists with 24 dice; buying hits, that's 6. To force the driver to test against crashing, the modified DV needs to exceed the vehicle's body--so the base DV needs to be greater than 22. I think.

No one corrected this?
"Modified Damage" = Weapon Base Damage + Net Hits + Ammo Damage Modifiers
"Modified Armor" = Vehicle Armor +/- Weapon's Armor Piercing (or otherwise modified, like halved by elemental or energy attacks)
If the first is larger than the second, the attack can do damage, so for example, a Ruger Super Warhawk (6P, -2AP)
with a 1 Net Hit has a Modified DV of 7 (6P +1) vs Modified Armor of 6 (Vehicle 8 - 2AP) and can do damage.
The Bulldog resists the damage with its Body + its Modified Armor value, so with 22 dice instead of 24. It can buy 5 hits, reducing the damage to 2. It'll take a while, but after 8 shots like this the Bulldog could be dead.

Edit/Addendum: As for explosives, use chunky salsa rules. A truck driving over a mine or a grenade tossed underneath or inside a car imo should get at least twice its normal damage because the blast has no way out but through the vehicle. So a HE grenade, 10P, -2AP, tossed below a bulldog, does 10P upwards, another 10P tries going downwards but gets bounced in reverse by the asphalt, in total traveling less than half a meter before hitting the car again, that's 20P, -2AP.

[bangbangtequila]

Pffffft, you're doing it wrong.

Tie his axles to a pair of rapelling gloves and a light post. With monowire. *Shnick* *Grinding crashey noise*

[UmaroVI]

Well, if you use the hilariously stupid grenade stacking rules from BOGOTA!, just tape a dozen High Explosive grenades together and you'll vaporize the car. And the driver. And the road.

[Lysanderz]

Nah, use barrier-foam grenades.  Even runflats won't help you, when you're suddenly sliding around on a concrete slab!!

Ahahahaha, that's even better than my story about a team dropping a frag grenade into a Corp bigwig's armored limousine.

[Thvor]

So, to sum up: this is something I'm going to have to work with my GM on.

Some of the suggestions are definitely going to be useful, while others...he'd need to agree to beforehand, I think.

Thanks, everyone!

[beowulf_of_wa]

of course, this thread has inspired the bad idea fairy.

monowire loaded claymore

let there be a return to chunky salsa.