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[OOC] The Road to Redmond

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inca1980

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« Reply #315 on: <01-28-11/0505:23> »
If there was no alert triggered then it would make sense to just do generic rolls, but SR4A talks about how every system is going to have a different alert response and the way the designers of this system made it, cancelling an alert requires an administrator to go through a tedious authentication process.  And besides, B.B. shouldn't be the only one who has all the fun having to figure out different ways to crack a system.  Kontakt also needs to encounter a little adversity and challenge in his meta-gaming :)  If you knew every little possible twist and turn (i.e. rolls you'd have to make) when encountering a system, then it's just not hacking man!  Also Running the Shadows chapter says I should put surprises in my games to keep my players thinking on their toes and not always know what they'll encounter....so RAW says I gotta do this man! :)  So maybe next time look up system specs for the next system you wanna hack and if you can find the paydata, you might find out all the special little rolls a system might call for in different situations that deviates from the generic. 
You'll make it though, B.B.'s got mad dice pools!

Good luck!


Kontact

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« Reply #316 on: <01-28-11/1926:41> »
It's just that I expect a veteran hacker to know what he's doing, and, if I don't know what I'm doing, then my actions make no sense in character.  That's... my conflict.  B.B. would know what to expect as far as behavior, even if I don't.  I just make decisions based on the rules as I understand them.  And if my understanding of the rules doesn't mesh then the decisions don't follow properly and a character who should know what he's doing starts making poor choices.  I don't know..

Main issue is that and it takes hours to hack into a system properly.  When people just walk in the front door without a plan, I figure I've got to kick down the digital doors just to keep security out of the picture.  Sensors and all that.  Well, anyway, we'll see what shakes out and learn the hard way then..

inca1980

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« Reply #317 on: <01-29-11/2358:57> »
That's my whole point though.  B.B., no matter how veteran he is, is only going to know 80% what he's doing in even the best case scenario.  Even the very best of the best hackers are going to encounter details of a system which they didn't plan on encountering or which they may have some troubles with.  System security personel are always gonna be changing shit up and adding new levels of security and no hacker, unless he totally detailed a system's security with reliable and very recent paydata (which could need a run all by itself), is gonna know everything he's gonna have to do before-hand when hacking a system.  Of course part of this is embodied in the abstraction of a single roll being made to "hack" a system...(we only loosely play out HOW it's actually hacked, and that's only if there's time).....but part of this also needs to be embodied through actual role-playing in the meta-game strategy.  Especially with the almost infinite computing power of the matrix the level of complexity would make it so that there would be processes, systems, protocols  and pockets of the matrix which are completely new and un-explored for even Fastjack himself.  This is not even talking about Resonance which is pure craziness.  What I think you're basically saying is that you think there should be no surprises on the meta-game strategy side of things.  I feel you should as a player have a certain amount of uncertainty in the meta-game strategy and basically plan that there are occasionally gonna be some rolls that the GM just pulled out of of his/her ass .....and that will reflect the character's uncertainty in what life (or the shadows if you will) will pull out of it's ass and throw at him/her.  I mean, B.B. being totally certain of how much time it's gonna take him to shut off an alarm he accidentally triggered while hacking in just doesn't seem realistic for me.

I'm not changing the game mechanics....if your character's got good skills, then he'll do well at any of the rolls that I call for, even if those rolls are un-expected.  The problem with SR4A is that they give a lot of detailed rules, but then they simultaneously give a lot of lee-way to the GM in making the calls...So at first it seems structured in a balanced way similar to DnD 4e where it's basically table-top WoW and the meta-game is totally laid out, and you should just stick with RAW cuz it's been play-tested and is balanced.......but then there's so many holes in the way it's laid out through-out the books, even blatant contradictions....that you soon realize that you gotta take RAW with a bit of a grain of salt since it's not very mutually consistent.  So on the forums and with friends it's fun to argue about rules because they are quite detailed and deserve to be heatedly debated, but realizing that ultimately the only way SR4A (and of course any other tabletop rpg for that matter) can make sense, and why it's way way funner than any other type of gaming is because the number of possibilities is truly infinite and goes way beyond what any one game designer could conceive of before-hand.   

Just looking at the SR4A sections on the matrix and Unwired....they never lay down a structure and layout for modern wireless matrix systems of nodes.  It's quite open, and i think purposefully so.  Even the section about "backdoors" and such is called "Hackers Handbook" really making you feel that it's a mere introduction that only includes a handful of useful tricks.  I believe that writers actually want you to make up your own shit using the template of Skill+Program (threshold or opposed) or Skill+Program. 
The other big hole in unwired is the complete ambiguity in the RAW is the complete open-ness they give to what privileges each access level gives....which is not bad...it reflects what's realistic.  One systems User access level might be very equivalent to another systems Admin access.  It totally depends on the architects of the system....and thus in metagame it totally depends on what rolls the GM calls for.

Just felt like ranting :)

Kontact

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« Reply #318 on: <01-30-11/0146:13> »
No, I understand, and I also understand GM prerogative to sweat the players a little.

I just look at it from a numbers standpoint and, well, Admin powers are a really serious thing.
The threshold to get user-level access to the Zurich Orbital Terrestrial substation is 9.
The threshold to get admin-level access to this bunraku parlor is 10.

It's almost harder to get admin access to the cheapest commlink on the market running the cheapest OS (threshold 8,) than it is getting security-level access to a military installation (threshold 9).

That counts for something, right?

inca1980

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« Reply #319 on: <01-30-11/0227:15> »
Yes except the Zurich Orbital Terrestrial Substation is running Milspec software.  Rating 10 at least for everything. 

Kontact

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« Reply #320 on: <01-30-11/1434:22> »
I was talking specifically about the sample system from p.78 of Unwired.  The main thing it has going on is like 9 pieces of ICe with ratings around 7-8 and 2 spiders constantly present.

Anyway, I've got 2 IPs before the Alert sounds and my account becomes restricted, is that correct?  And a threshold 8 extended test to make with 11 dice which puts my chances of success around 40% without spending edge? 
Was I able to shut down the Analyze program and the ICe successfully?  I sort of posted a list of actions I wanted to do, and I don't know how many were successful.

My main thought is that it'd be far easier to bail a 2nd time and hack back in with the Analyze program off.  That way I could get about the business of cleaning up without an impending alert looking to lock me out of the system.

Basically, I only know how I envision things going down, but I need to know a little more about how you envision them going down in order to move forward.  And I think everyone else is sort of holding their breath since all this action is supposed to happen in a matter of several seconds and I've got no idea if I'm going to set the whole place to alarm and wake up some crazy cyberninjas or something.

inca1980

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« Reply #321 on: <02-01-11/0455:56> »
@Kontact:
Now that you authenticated and the alarm was switched off, you can also unload the IC and pretty much do anything you want with the system.  Edits might require some tests, ...like scrubbing things clean and such.  Scrubbing the place of traces with an admin account we'll make a Datasearch +Edit(8, CA) test, non-diminishing.  The only situation is that a copy of the access log was sent to MCT along with a request for assistance.  I was hoping Mercedes or Woof would tell her to press no or something, but they didn't.  Keep on following initiative sequence.  It should be CT2 IP2 now and you have a full action phase.  Spider comes on CT3 IP1. 
« Last Edit: <02-01-11/0503:28> by inca1980 »

Kontact

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« Reply #322 on: <02-02-11/0306:49> »
I've got Corrupt for that.  ;)  Basically the reason to have that program.  Scrubbing one piece of info off a file on a single node is a Hacking + Corrupt (2) test according to the table on Unwired p112.  If the house's node counts as a database, then that would be a threshold 4 test.  Anyway, I'll roll it.

I was planning to use Disarm on the IC's Analyze program, but I forgot I only have Defuse.  Oh well.  That roll can stand in for if 4 isn't enough.
« Last Edit: <02-02-11/0309:55> by Kontact »

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #323 on: <02-02-11/1052:56> »
I am moving on Feb 4th. So I will be taking apart my computer some time tomorrow in preparation and probably won't be back on until the 9th or 10th.

Cynthia will just keep exploring the upper levels and trying to figure out where they may have the boys stashed if this is where they ended up at. 
"Walking through walls isn't tough..... if you know where the doors are."
"It's not being seen that is the trick."

Walks Through Walls

inca1980

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« Reply #324 on: <02-02-11/1201:21> »
Is it cool if i NPC you a little?

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #325 on: <02-02-11/1452:09> »
Yeah no problem. That is why I was saying what I was planning on doing. It seems like the majority of the action is happening downstairs with Mercedes and Woofer anyhow
"Walking through walls isn't tough..... if you know where the doors are."
"It's not being seen that is the trick."

Walks Through Walls

inca1980

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« Reply #326 on: <02-02-11/1544:51> »
Ok, good luck on your move :)

FastJack

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« Reply #327 on: <02-02-11/1644:04> »
Speaking as one who recently moved from MN to my parents, then my parents to my apartment in PA, Good Luck!

Sludig

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« Reply #328 on: <02-04-11/0025:03> »
My Bad, I didn't realize they were links Inca. :(  thought you were just using colored text.

inca1980

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« Reply #329 on: <02-04-11/1332:24> »
Enjoy!......

 

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