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Magical Quandaries.

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chinlamp

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« on: <05-21-12/0119:54> »
I have a few issues that popped up in the last session I ran.  In the end, I went with how the player thought it would go (in order to get back to the game) but said I would ask the infinitely wiser people of this forum before our next run.  So here are a few questions that I couldn't find satisfactory answers to on my own.

1. Can mystic adepts take non-adept metamagics.  I said no, because they are mystic adepts, and I've always seen them as adepts who are able to externalise their magic.  The player thinks of them as pure hybrids, and should have access to all metamagics.

2. Can someone who is astrally perceiving cast at people on the physical plane?  This one came up because a target was surrounded in thick smoke, with no way for the characters to see them, so the player just said he'd astrally perceive and cast at them.  This morning I remembered ghouls are blind, so I've got my answer there, so I have to ask, how do I stop him from being able to see anything, no matter what obstacles I put in his way?

3. Do bacteria have enough life to have an aura?  I'm specifically thinking of bacteria in sewer pipes (yes, I know, sewer levels are the worst things ever devised, but where else am I gonna put my toxic shaman?), where they would be everywhere and in the trillions.  Would it blanket out most other auras that aren't directly in front of them?

4. Do auras look like anything before assenssing, or are they just  a mish mash of bright colours with no discernable traits?

5. How organised are the spirits/metaplanes?  The offensive magician of the team has gone through 3 Fire spirits in 2 days, and thrown an Earth spirit through a helicoptors rotors in order to bring it down.  How long/much would it take for him to earn a bad reputation with (as we called it in the session) the spirit union?

JustADude

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« Reply #1 on: <05-21-12/0213:44> »
1) Player's pretty much right, here. They split their Magic between "Casting Dice" and Power Points, and can use those Casting Dice to do anything a Mage can. There's even a special Magician's Way in Way of the Adept that lets you get a bonus to your Magician Centering metamagic.

2) Yeah, as long as they're actually physically present they can still get Line of Sight on someone in the physical world using their astral senses. Astral senses don't go through walls... or even glass... though. You just have to have a solid barrier between him and the target. Also, anything living will cloud astral vision quite handily.

3) I don't know about bacteria, given that bacteria is all over the place everywhere, not just in sewers. Mold and other fungi, though... definitely. And fungi would also provide a solid barrier against astral movement and it would, as mentioned above, block astral Line of Sight.

4) Assensing is the astral equivalent of Observing In Detail so, yeah, until they roll Assensing they're not actually getting any details. However, unless you're running in Combat Time, just have them roll for it as soon as they open up their Astral Perception and tell them what they see.

5) Depends on his attitude... if it's just a string of bad luck and he's generally respectful to his Spirits, then he might still have some good-will left. Otherwise, I'd say he's already there.
« Last Edit: <05-21-12/0217:12> by JustADude »
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chinlamp

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« Reply #2 on: <05-21-12/0308:22> »
Thanks, that really helped me a lot.

I have another question now though.  I want to add the mutant template to a ghoul, but that involves reducing its essence, which will burn it out and make it unable to see as well as no longer dual natured.  Are there any rules in any of the books for upping a critters magic attribute?  If not, can I use the points added to attributes on special attributes, or is it only for normal attributes? (Using it on Intuition feels like it shouldn't work too, given the rules for what the lost essence does).

EDIT: Nevermind, just reread it, Mutant is for normal critters only.
« Last Edit: <05-21-12/0324:05> by chinlamp »

Lethe

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« Reply #3 on: <05-21-12/0318:00> »
1. Can mystic adepts take non-adept metamagics.  I said no, because they are mystic adepts, and I've always seen them as adepts who are able to externalise their magic.  The player thinks of them as pure hybrids, and should have access to all metamagics.
Yes, mystic adepts can chose from all the metamagics.
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2. Can someone who is astrally perceiving cast at people on the physical plane?  This one came up because a target was surrounded in thick smoke, with no way for the characters to see them, so the player just said he'd astrally perceive and cast at them.  This morning I remembered ghouls are blind, so I've got my answer there, so I have to ask, how do I stop him from being able to see anything, no matter what obstacles I put in his way?
Yes, they can target into the physical plane, when they can see the target there. Most obstacles will also affect vision in astral space though and a smoke grenade, which vision penalties are based on many particles, will affect the astral vision as well. So in this situation they would NOT be able to target someone in there, because the auras would be blocked by auras from the smoke particles.
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3. Do bacteria have enough life to have an aura?  I'm specifically thinking of bacteria in sewer pipes (yes, I know, sewer levels are the worst things ever devised, but where else am I gonna put my toxic shaman?), where they would be everywhere and in the trillions.  Would it blanket out most other auras that aren't directly in front of them?
Yes, they have auras - very small ones though. Auras are not bigger then the bacterias themselves. If you can still see through the air in physical plane, then there are probably not enough bacterias in there to prevent vision in astral plane. Vision modifiers caused by living things, should affect both planes equally.
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4. Do auras look like anything before assenssing, or are they just  a mish mash of bright colours with no discernable traits?
Yes, they look like something, they have forms as in the physical plane.
Quote from: SR4A,p.191
Without attempting to read an aura, a magician can still get an impression of what type of aura it is (spell, spirit, living creature, etc.).
And of course you would be able to tell apart a dwarf from something human-sized to a troll.
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5. How organised are the spirits/metaplanes?  The offensive magician of the team has gone through 3 Fire spirits in 2 days, and thrown an Earth spirit through a helicoptors rotors in order to bring it down.  How long/much would it take for him to earn a bad reputation with (as we called it in the session) the spirit union?
If your mage actively uses the spirits to sacrifice them for his cause, he probably already got a very bad reputation. Spirits know, if a mage has been cruel to spirits in the past. You might want to surprise him, with the spirits using edge to resist the next summoning and looking for loopholes in his orders, until he atones.
Thanks, that really helped me a lot.

I have another question now though.  I want to add the mutant template to a ghoul, but that involves reducing its essence, which will burn it out and make it unable to see as well as no longer dual natured.  Are there any rules in any of the books for upping a critters magic attribute?  If not, can I use the points added to attributes on special attributes, or is it only for normal attributes? (Using it on Intuition feels like it shouldn't work too, given the rules for what the lost essence does).
You can increase a ghouls magic like any other attribute at character generation up to his essence. If the essence would go to 0, then of course he would lose all his paranormal abilities. But the mutant template is only for mundane critters, which ghouls are not... but then you are the GM and anything is possible... Remember ghouls are as smart as humans, they just are a little different. You can of course always use the advanced character generation rules from runners companion to make a powerful ghoul. No need to mutate him.
« Last Edit: <05-21-12/0329:27> by Lethe »

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #4 on: <05-21-12/0936:56> »
Don't mystic adepts have to blow a power point to do anything astrally like normal adepts do?
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Lethe

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« Reply #5 on: <05-21-12/0946:26> »
Don't mystic adepts have to blow a power point to do anything astrally like normal adepts do?
Yes, but that doesn't interfere with their choice of metamagics. Even if astral perception is required for one, they could probably learn it, but not use it until they bought astral perception. But i cant think of any metamagic at the moment that would require astral perception.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #6 on: <05-21-12/0953:10> »
Don't mystic adepts have to blow a power point to do anything astrally like normal adepts do?
Yes, but that doesn't interfere with their choice of metamagics. Even if astral perception is required for one, they could probably learn it, but not use it until they bought astral perception. But i cant think of any metamagic at the moment that would require astral perception.

Just brought it up because I didn't see the mention of it, and I was mainly trying to confirm that. Well, that and the OP may not have realized that it was necessary.  All in all though, it seems to me that mystic adept sucks worse than trying to combine fighter and mage through multiclassing did in 3.5 D&D.  :o
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Lethe

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« Reply #7 on: <05-21-12/1021:27> »
Just brought it up because I didn't see the mention of it, and I was mainly trying to confirm that. Well, that and the OP may not have realized that it was necessary.  All in all though, it seems to me that mystic adept sucks worse than trying to combine fighter and mage through multiclassing did in 3.5 D&D.  :o
Yes, they do have to make sacrifices. But if a mage can do without one or two extra dice for his magical abilities, he might get something useful out of those adept powers. All depending on the character and is definitely niche.

SeriousOne338

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« Reply #8 on: <05-21-12/1105:40> »
Quote
Quote
3. Do bacteria have enough life to have an aura?  I'm specifically thinking of bacteria in sewer pipes (yes, I know, sewer levels are the worst things ever devised, but where else am I gonna put my toxic shaman?), where they would be everywhere and in the trillions.  Would it blanket out most other auras that aren't directly in front of them?
Yes, they have auras - very small ones though. Auras are not bigger then the bacterias themselves. If you can still see through the air in physical plane, then there are probably not enough bacterias in there to prevent vision in astral plane. Vision modifiers caused by living things, should affect both planes equally.

Well not sure if it matters anymore but in the old 2nd ed corporate security book, it stated that a lot of corporate facilities use a specialized fatty bacteria, that is airborne, to stop astral projections.
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KommissarK

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« Reply #9 on: <05-21-12/1109:49> »
The sad part about Mystic Adepts is the fact that they can never astrally project even if they spend the power point on astral perception. Not terrible, mind you (I'm playing a mystic adept detective (astral perception, enhanced perception, detect magic as the adept powers, and using spells for utility like invisibility/levitate) right now to some rather fun games), but it does stink.

It works great for using magic as a utility (and not so much direct combat). The worst part is the decreased maximum force.

On the bacteria part, I always attributed that the whole manasphere thing. The fact that there is anything living in the area is how you're able to see astrally at all. As far as it blocking vision though, bacteria shouldn't. Fungi though could do so, especially in large masses/if its awakened.

raggedhalo

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« Reply #10 on: <06-06-12/0734:20> »
The worst part is the decreased maximum force.

There is no decresed maximum Force.  Being a Mystic Adept just means that you roll fewer dice for magician stuff and get fewer Adept powers.  You use your total Magic Attribute for everything else (pg. 195, SR4A).

The face in my group is a Mystic Adept, using the Way of the Adept Magician's Way Quality to good effect to get a hefty discount on Speaker's Way powers.  He uses spirits a lot, and makes heavy use of the Fashion spell to change his look.
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Lethe

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« Reply #11 on: <06-06-12/0852:46> »
There is no decresed maximum Force.  Being a Mystic Adept just means that you roll fewer dice for magician stuff and get fewer Adept powers.  You use your total Magic Attribute for everything else (pg. 195, SR4A).
You are right, the limitation "every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills" only effects the dicepool.
The FAQ stats otherwise though, but the same answer also contradicts the max adept power rating.
While i normally refer plenty to the FAQ, in cases where it contradicts the book, i stick to the book.

raggedhalo

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« Reply #12 on: <06-06-12/0858:35> »
The FAQ stats otherwise though, but the same answer also contradicts the max adept power rating.
While i normally refer plenty to the FAQ, in cases where it contradicts the book, i stick to the book.

In the FAQ's defence on this one, I believe the wording in the book was changed with SR4A to make it clearer, which overruled the errata.  Now, we can make an argument that the FAQ should have been changed, but then we've all been in that discussion before ;-)
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chinlamp

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« Reply #13 on: <06-07-12/0059:57> »
Nice to see this is still kicking around a fortnight later rather than needing me to res it.

Two new questions:

1. Can a weapon focus (or any focus for that matter) be bound to a non-magic character.  I ask because the Magical Goods chapter opener in Street Magic.  In it it says that the sword lights up on the astral, that it is enchanted, but then, when given to the oyabun, he has a mage there to check the enchantment, indicating that he is not magical himself.

2. What is orichalcum good for?  I know it can be used for increasing enchanting dice pools, but is there anything beyond that?  If that's all, why is it so highly valued?

Lethe

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« Reply #14 on: <06-07-12/0352:08> »
1. With Magic 0 the focus total force limit is 0. So probably no.
Quote from: SR4A,p.199
The total Force of all bonded foci is capped at the character’s Magic x 5.

2. I don't know any other uses for orichalcum in 4E. IIRC there were more applications for it in 2nd Edition. Orichalcum is expensive, because its difficult to create. Its monetary value might be its only value...