[Big John]

A'ight chummers, can I get yer takes on this warrior adept build? This build is Essence-friendly...no chrome or hyper-meat. He's been in play for a while, but the GM is requesting a rebuild to take in account so many new sources.

BIG JOHN
METATYPE: Troll (Italian)
REAL NAME: Anthony Vizarelli
ATTRIBUTES
Agility: 4 (6)                 Charisma: 3
Body: 8                    Intuition: 3
Reaction: 3 (6)         Logic: 3   
Strength: 10 (13)              Willpower: 3
Edge: 3
Initiative: 9                 Initiative Passes: 4
Magic: 9 (11 PP)         Initiate Grade: 3
Essence: 6
Damage Track: Physical 12   Stun 10
Karma: Total: 134      Unused: 21

ACTIVE SKILLS
Dodge Rea: 3
Pistols (semi-automatics +2): 3
Unarmed Combat (martial arts +2): 5
Perception: 3
Survival (Urban +2): 1
Etiquette: 3
Pilot Ground Craft: 1
Astral Combat (spirits +2): 3
Intimidation: 2

KNOWLEDGE SKILLS
Syndicates (mafia +2): 2
Denver Gangs: 2
Denver Area Knowledge: 3
Denver Safe Houses: 2
Security Procedures: 4
Criminal Law: 3
Italian: N
English: 4

QUALITIES
Wanted (+10)
Sensitive System (+15)
Incompetent (Swimming, Diving) (+10)
The Warrior’s Way (-10)

ADEPT POWERS (11 pts)
Astral Perception
Critical Strike 5 (25% off)
Penetrating Strike 3
Killing Hands
Improved Reflexes 3 (25% off)
Improved Physical Attribute (Agility) 2 (25% off)
Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 3 (25% off)
Distance Strike

GEAR
Fake SIN 4 (Kurt Jamison, professional bodyguard)
Fake SIN 6 (Malley St. Baer, lawyer’s assistant, mafia linked)

NOTES
+1 Natural reach, +1 Natural armor, Natural thermographic vision, Natural recoil compensation of 2, Adept Centering Metamagic

BACKGROUND (Brief)
Tony came to Denver 8 years ago, having left his family in Italy under auspicious circumstances, being linked to the killing of another metahuman.  He has since then lived in the shadows, scraping together a living as best he could - until he was found and recruited by a runner named St. James.  St. James saw potential in Tony, seeing him as one who had the strength of character to survive the shadows.  He taught Tony a bit of the social graces required and established his false identity of an out-of-work security guard, while others of his team trained him in more martial aspects.  They learned quickly that young Tony excelled at unarmed combat.  Giving him the nickname of Big John, the team initiated Tony into the shadows.  The team stayed together for a couple small runs, but it was not to last. Havoc, the team's decker, fried his brains on BTLs, and the team's mage, Havoc's girlfriend, left the shadows and Denver. St. James took an extended break to recover, and the two other sams hooked up with other teams. Then the world shut down. Living on the streets at the time, the matrix crash of '64 did not affect Tony much.  He lost quite a bit of cred, but otherwise he continued to survive on the streets he had grown accustomed to.
A secret that Tony holds to is his addiction to bloodsport activities. He participated regularly (and still participates) in underground matches where his brute force has taken the lives of many combatants. To counteract this addiction he began his profession as a bodyguard.  He established a small business in the Italian Federation as a professional bodyguard. Things went a bit south, however, after he ended up killing a man who made a suicide run on his client. The killer was the estranged brother of an official within the Federation government, who has secretly released a ¥ 25,000 bounty on Tony's head. While the official wishes to keep his connection to the killer a secret, he feels it his duty to bring justice to his killer. Twice now bounty hunters have caught up with Tony, once in Seattle while he was visting St. James, and once more recently. Both times Tony had to kill the hunter.
Even with the danger of being found, Tony continues to run the circuit, usually at least twice a month. He is unsure of how long he can maintain his secret.

[UmaroVI]

You appear to be wearing no armor and be proficient in pistols, but not carry any. There's quite a lot of gear you really should have.

You have Astral Perception, and even Astral Combat even though you are really hopeless in an astral slapfight, but no Assensing. That means you can't see jack shit on the Astral because you can't even default.

Your Intuition and Reaction are both low for someone whose primary skill appears to be combat. Going first is at least as important as hitting hard.

You should probably have Martial Arts. Take your pick of +3 DV to unarmed, grab Watchful Guard, Kick Attack, and maybe something like Finishing Blow or Riposte; it's well worth it.

That IPA strength makes me weep in sorrow. Even with the discount you are paying 3.375 PP for +3 to Strength. That is an awful, awful deal. You really shouldn't take IPA over your natural maximum, ever; the only use for it is getting the last point to take you from softcap to hardcap. If you're going to refuse 'ware, you shouldn't be taking powers that duplicate 'ware badly for ridiculously high prices.

Penetrating Strike is very inefficient and Critical Strike is much better. Why do you have any Penetrating Strike at all when your Critical Strike isn't maxed?

[Lethe]

I am asking myself, what system you were using.

Raising magic from 6 to 9 costs already 120 karma, which is more than you spent, not even mentioning initiate grades.

Also spent slightly too many power points
Astral Perception - 1
Critical Strike 5 (25% off) - 1.25
Penetrating Strike 3 - 0.75
Killing Hands - 0.5
Improved Reflexes 3 (25% off) - 4
Improved Physical Attribute (Agility) 2 (25% off) - 2.25
Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 3 (25% off) - 4.5
Distance Strike - 2
= 4.25 + 12*0.75 = 13.25

[Big John]

As far as gear I did not list it all on purpose, but I see the post is misleading in that regard. I was more interested in criticism on the build, not the gear. He does wear his form-fitted body armor under other armors, depending on circumstance. He carries an Ares Predator IV modified and a Ruger Super Warhawk modified, using EX, APDS, or SnS as needed. If there are any particular suggestions list them out, but he is pretty well geared up after a couple years of running.

The astral perception and astral combat was to provide the group's shaman with backup against spirits - it is not his primary focus. I was unaware that Assensing was required to fight astrally, because honestly astral mechanics is not my thing. The book mentions that assensing is not required if something is immediately obvious (such as the attacking spirit), only if the spirit is trying to hide or if the character is trying to observe in detail. If it is required then I will need to adjust. If the build needs to be changed to be effective in astral combat, as far as attributes, then perhaps you could suggest something? He has 225 build points to use on attributes, and I could drop his Strength and allow IPA to cover for it (under racial maximums) if that helps.

Again, as with astral combat, if Intuition and Reaction need to be modified perhaps you can provide suggestions? The original build was a 450 pt build, and I still have 21 karma left over. None of the attributes have been modified from their original. He focused more on initiating and Magic.

Martial Arts - ahh yes. I did give him Unarmed (martial arts +2), but that's probably not what you are referring to. Again, I request some suggestions. The Martial Arts Quality requires build points or double karma, so I'll need to configure that from the beginning.

For IPA, I had actually forgotten that the cost increases when it is over racial maximums. Good eye. I can live with 10 Strength for now and use the power points elsewhere, or maybe start with a lower Strength and use IPA to cover for it.

I fail to see why Penetrating Strike is inefficient. Furthermore, I was unaware that Critical Strike had a max (unless that was a tongue-in-cheek reference to PS always being useless...) SR4 20th does not state a maximum for CS, and PS helps in bypassing armor.

[Big John]

See - this is why we have peer reviews!

OK, I was mentally stuck on the Attribute raising being a "x3" thing, and I was incorrect. Therefore that will need to be changed.

The PP issue was also a mental error, at least as far as IPA (Str). I will probably either drop IPA or lower his base Strength and use IPA to cover.

[Lethe]

The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept’s Magic attribute.

So you can have a maximum rating of 9 in critical strike, which i would take advantage of.

You don't need assensing to fight astrally or even navigate while projecting.

Without attempting to read an aura, a magician can still get an impression of what type of aura it is (spell, spirit, living creature, etc.).

You only need it, when you try to get more information out of auras, but astral perception alone would be enough to walk through the physical world with eyes closed.

[UmaroVI]

I just wanted to make sure you were wearing armor and owned guns.

Not having Assensing is kinda bad - it means you automatically lose opposed checks, even if your opponent isn't very good. 1 point of assensing is worth it. It's like Incompetence (Perception) on the astral, because you can't default.

Reaction is well worth having 5 base (8 with Improved Reflexes), and Intuition is worth 4 base. I'd be willing to lose 2 Strength and 1 Body for that.

I would recommend 19 BP for any 3 +Unarmed DV qualities (+3 is the max, there are a ton of them, take your pick based on fluff), Watchful Guard, and Kick Attack. If you compare, it's way more efficient than Strength - you'd need 60 BP of strength to get +3 DV.

Penetrating Strike is .25 PP per and gives -1 AP. Critical Strike is .25 PP per and gives +1 DV. 1 point of armor gives your opponent a 1/3 chance of reducing DV by 1, so -1 AP is worth about 1/3 of +1 DV (it's actually not quite that bad, because of hardened armor and vehicles, but it's still definitely worse).

Max ranks in any adept power is Magic. 8 Critical Strike is just plain better than 5 critical strike and 3 penetrating strike under any circumstances. The only reason to have Penetrating Strike is if you can't buy any more Critical Strike because you have ranks equal to your magic already, and even then it's an iffy purchase.

[Big John]

You guys are awesome! This is why I came here.

OK, I tossed the advanced version and started on the base model. I still have the karma listed, but I need to rethink things with Magic costing more than I remembered. But...have a go at this version.

BIG JOHN
METATYPE: Troll (Italian)
REAL NAME: Anthony Vizarelli
ATTRIBUTES
Agility: 4         Charisma: 2
Body: 8            Intuition: 4
Reaction: 5 (8 )         Logic: 3
Strength: 9         Willpower: 3
Edge: 2
Initiative: 9 (12)         Initiative Passes: 1 (4)
Magic: 6         Initiate Grade: 0
Essence: 6
Damage Track: Physical 12   Stun 9
Karma: Total: 134      Unused: 134

ACTIVE SKILLS
Dodge: 5
Pistols: 4
Unarmed Combat: 6
Perception: 4
Survival (Urban +2): 1
Etiquette: 1
Pilot Ground Craft: 1
Infiltration: 3

KNOWLEDGE SKILLS
Syndicates (mafia +2): 2
Denver Gangs: 2
Denver Area Knowledge: 3
Denver Safe Houses: 2
Security Procedures: 4
UFC Procedures: 3
Italian: N
English: 4

QUALITIES
Wanted (+10)
Sensitive System (+15)
Incompetent (Swimming, Diving) (+10)
The Warrior’s Way (-10)
Martial Arts (Kickboxing) (-10)
Martial Arts (Boxing) (-5)

MANUEVERS
Kick Attack
Watchful Guard

ADEPT POWERS (6 pts)
Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) 2
Killing Hands
Improved Reflexes 3 (25% off)
Critical Strike 6 (25% off)

NOTES
+1 Natural reach, +1 Natural armor, Natural thermographic vision

ADVANCING (118 karma spent)
Join Group – 5 karma
Initiate Lvl 1 (Adept Centering) – 8 karma
Initiate Lvl 2 (+1 PP) – 10 karma
Initiate Lvl 3 (+1 PP) – 12 karma
Initiate Lvl 4 (+1 PP) – 14 karma
Initiate Lvl 5 (+1 PP) – 15 karma
Initiate Lvl 6 (+1 PP) -- 17 karma
Specialize in Perception (Visual) – 2 karma
Magic 7 - 35 karma

(6 more power points grants Distance Strike, Mystic Armor 7 (25% discount), Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) 3, Counterstrike 1, Combat Sense 1)

[UmaroVI]

Looks much better. The tweaks I'd suggest are:

The single biggest thing is dropping IPA strength. That power really is a bomb, and I don't mean in the good sense. Replace it with Critical Strike 6, it's just so much better it isn't funny.

Getting yourself Unarmed 6 rather than 5 is really, really worth it. It's 4 bp now, or 12 karma later. I'd chop a point from Pistols for that.

You might consider Gymnastics 4 rather than Dodge 4. Gymnastics lets you active dodge just like Dodge does, you don't need passive dodge since you can block with Unarmed, and it lets you breakdance or whatnot as well.

I would still recommend going whole hog on the initiation/more magic with your karma once you grab a few specializations (Pistols: SA, Unarmed Combat: Martial Arts, Perception: Visual in particular). A good rule of thumb is to take an Initiate grade or another point of magic, whichever is cheaper, and iterate. So you will probably want more initiations, less magic, and then as before take Adept Centering and then PP for metamagics.

[KommissarK]

One thing to consider for fighting spirits (although this may be a horrible idea) is taking smashing blow, from street magic.

It costs a good bit on the PP side of things, but for dealing with a type of enemy you can't physically get to in order to punch (remember, the astral perception adept power does not let you project), you're going to be facing an enemy that can pretty much go through walls at will.

Smashing blow would make it so that there is no wall for them to go through. Also, on exceedingly high unarmed DV characters, it makes it such that a getaway is as simple as getting to an exterior wall.

[Big John]

OK my new-found friends - I have edited the above version to take into account most of the suggestions you fine people have offered. Take a look and see what you think.

I have alot of karma still left over, and continuing to initiate seemed a little munchkin-y. Any more suggestions?

(P.S. I am still looking over Smashing Blow...)

[Big John]

OK - now that my eyes have been opened I took a quick look through Street Magic and SR4 20th to see if any other filler powers would be nice. I am interested in the following. Gimme your honest opinion (as you have hithertofore done already):

Counterstrike, Inertia Strike, Combat Sense, Pain Resistance, Enhanced Perception, Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat), Improved Ability (Gymnastics), Improved Ability (Astral Combat), and Spell Resistance.

As a second note - is Gymnastics and Astral Combat considered Combat or Physical skills? Actually, Astral Combat is a Magical Active skill, so it probably cannot be improved, huh?

[Glyph]

I know you want to help your buddy with astral spirits, but honestly, you are more likely to get creamed, rolling 9 dice (Willpower: 3, skill: 3, specialization: 2, reach: 1) against the kind of attack and defense dice pools that most moderate or better Force spirits have.  Not to mention that when you astrally perceive, you are opening yourself up to ranged attacks - spirit mana powers or spells from astrally projecting mages.  This is 22 build points (for astral combat and assensing) and a power point that could be much better spent elsewhere, in my opinion.

On the filler powers, the best are improved ability for unarmed (perhaps the most important, for your primary dice pool that is used for those crucial opposed dice contests), followed closely by combat sense.  A point of counterstrike has good syngergy with the previous two powers.  Just get that first point - a die for a counterattack is not as good as a die in a combat skill, or a die for all defense including passive, but the ability itself, to add your net successes defending to your dice pool when counterattacking, is very, very good.

[UmaroVI]

OK - now that my eyes have been opened I took a quick look through Street Magic and SR4 20th to see if any other filler powers would be nice. I am interested in the following. Gimme your honest opinion (as you have hithertofore done already):

Counterstrike, Inertia Strike, Combat Sense, Pain Resistance, Enhanced Perception, Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat), Improved Ability (Gymnastics), Improved Ability (Astral Combat), and Spell Resistance.

As a second note - is Gymnastics and Astral Combat considered Combat or Physical skills? Actually, Astral Combat is a Magical Active skill, so it probably cannot be improved, huh?

Correct on the Gymnastics and Astral Combat.

Counterstrike is a 1-rank power, and only worth it if you have a good melee defense pool already. I recommend getting the Riposte manuever if you go this route. Never take more than 1 rank of counterstrike.

Intertia Strike is crap.

Combat Sense is pricey but useful.

Pain Resistance is crap, crap, crap. It costs way, way too much for what it does.

Enhanced Perception is nice, because it helps both Astral Perception and regular Perception and is fairly cheap.

Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) is a solid buy and probably the top choice of these.

Improved Ability (Gymnastics) is an alright choice, but I'm not really a big fan of active defenses. I'd probably pass for better things.

Improved Ability (Astral Combat): NO. Bad adept, no cookie!

Spell Resistance: Not bad per se, just too expensive and won't really save you.

[TheNarrator]

Combat Sense is an excellent defense-raising ability. +1 to Defense rolls and Surprise Tests makes you much harder to hit or catch off-guard (and hit).

Improved Ability (Unarmed) is great if you're intending to fight in melee a lot. Which, since you took Unarmed Combat up to 6, I'm guessing that you are. You can make your Unarmed Combat skill effectively 9, which is awesome, since that's your attack and defense in melee.

I have a great love of Enhanced Perception as a way to make an adept the most hyperaware member of the team. It's not really combat oriented, per se, but in combination with Combat Sense it means that you'll rarely have to worry about being surprised.

Improved Ability (Gymnastics) can be good. It's inexpensive, and it improves your jumping and your dodging. But remember that you only add that bonus if you sacrifice your next action for Full Defense.

I don't really have personal experience with the other powers listed.

I have to agree with Glyph that you probably shouldn't try to fight spirits that haven't materialized. Sadly, the rules chose to force you to use Astral Combat while astrally perceiving instead of Unarmed Combat (even though you're still in your body), which means that you're not going to be very good at it. Wait until they become physical to punch them to death.

Gymnastics is a Physical Skill, Astral Combat is a Magical Skill.

(Oh, and by the way: when you take the 40% discount on the cost of initiation, you always round up. So it should be 8 karma, 10 karma, 12 karma, 14 karma, 15 karma.)