[yaliina]

Hi.  I'm new here and new to SR4.  I played 3 many many years ago, but played a rigger.  The closest to a mage I've every played was a Druid in D&D3, but she was more shape-shifter.  SO... I don't know if I'm doing it right.  Our table will consist of my mage, dh's street sam, a paranormal investigator (more Sam & Dean than Dresden), and a couple of other support-types.  I don't know if we'll have a tank (I hope).  Also, DH & the DM & I are the only players with ANY roleplaying experience.  So, although my original idea was to NOT create a combat mage, I tried to re-gear her as a useful combat mage, but hoping not to focus too heavily on the combat part.  Hope that makes sense.  She has a great back story (which I won't get in to here), and the GM has approved anything not standard that I used.  Without further ado, here she is.  Please feel free to critique away.  We'll be playing this weekend.

Metatype: Elif

Body:         2
Agility        3
Reaction: 2
Strength:  2
Char:        6
Intuition:  3
Logic:       3
Wil:           5
Edge:       3
Magic:      5


Qualities:
    +
Mentor Spirit (Fire bringer)
Focused Concentration (1)
    -
Gremlins (1)
Sensative System
SINner (stand)
Lost Loved One
Vindictive

Skills
Artisan (Jeweler)     1 (6)
Assensing                1 (4)
Counterspelling       3 (
Dodge                        1 (4)
Etiquette                     1 (7)
Infiltration                   2 (5)
Pistols                        1 (4)
Spellcasting              5 (10)
Summoning              3 (6)

Foci
Power Focus                          Force: 2
Sustaining Focus (Health)  Force: 3
Sustaining Focus (Manip)   Force: 3
Spellcast Focus (Combat)  Force: 2

Spells
Stunbolt (fetish)
Stunball (fetish)
Detect Magic
Decrease Willpower (fetish)
Heal
Increase Reflexes (fetish)
Improved Invisibility (fetish)
Armor
Levitate

Everything Else
I have standard gear:
comm
contact lenses with smartlink & flare comp & Earpieces
stim patches
fake SIN & 1 license for a focus
subvocal mic
magesight goggles
Savalette Guardian with extra ammo
Defiance Protector taser w/ extra darts
Form-fit Armor
"Street" armor (Vashon Island Steampunk garb)

Am I forgetting anything? 
I am not sure about the Spellcasting focus,  now that I think about it.  Do I need it, since I have a Power Focus, or should I trade it for another sustaining focus, or just get the BP/nY back to spend elsewhere?

TIA to anyone who can help me!  I appreciate it.  I like to have everything well thought-out and ready to go before Saturday.  The GM will have his hands full helping the newbie players set their characters up, I think, and DH & I will, probably, too.  We're all working professionals, and don't have hours to spend on this during the week, usually.
Oh, I almost forgot, if anyone knows of a good pre-generated spell sheet, I'd appreciate the link.  I haven't been able to find one that keeps track of active stuff and spell effects, etc.  I'm starting to generate my own, but it's a tedious process.
TY

[UmaroVI]

What books do you have access to?

You don't appear to actually have the magician quality.

What tradition are you?

Also, take a look at the first link in my sig and the Spirit Medium for an example of a similar character.

But a few immediate points:

I really hope your tradition is Charisma based, going by your stats. Don't take Focused Concentration unless you have soft-capped your drain stats; lose FC and gain +1 charisma.

2 Body is not a good plan on a combat mage. You have a very bad case of average-stats-itis, except that your defensive stats are below average...

Intuition is important for combat, because it sets your Initiative (also Perception and Assensing). So is Reaction, which also affects your defense.

Fire-bringer is not a good choice for a combat mage. You really want a bonus to Combat spells. Sun would be a better choice.

You really want spellcasting 6. Dodge 1 is not useful; blowing an action for all of +1 to your defense is never worth it. Similarly, you are just good enough with pistols to make you think it's worth firing them (it isn't). Try not to have skills at 3; it's very karma-inefficient (it is 4 bp to get them to 4 now, or 8 karma later; compare to 4 bp or 4 karma to buy the first or second rank).

No, you don't need a spellcasting focus. It does not stack with power focus. You want Restricted Gear so you can get a force 4 power focus rather than a force 2. You may not want that Manipulation sustaining focus that much either.

You probably can't wear the armor you have, but your Body should go up anyways. I do see you found form-fitting body armor, which is good.

These spells are bad:
Detect Magic (Assensing)
Decrease Willpower (fetish) (just stunbolt people)
Armor (HI GUYS CHECK OUT MY GLOWING MAGIC ARMOR WOOO I'M A MAGE PLEASE SHOOT ME PS MY ARMOR DOESN'T REALLY ADD MUCH DEFENSE)


These spells are good:
Levitate
Stunbolt (fetish)
Stunball (fetish)
Heal
Increase Reflexes (fetish)
Improved Invisibility (fetish)

As a combat mage you have a major problem which is that you can't do jack about drones or vehicles, because you have no spells that do physical damage. I'd pick up either Powerbolt or an Elemental single-target spell that does physical (like Acid Splash or whatever it's called) and either Powerball or an AE elemental spell that does physical.

[TheNarrator]

Just at first glance....

You only spent 160 BP on mental and physical attributes out of a possible 200. (Assuming this is a standard 400 BP character.) Usually it pays to put as much into attributes as possible.

Actually, your physical stats in general are all really weak. And your mental stats, other than the ones that you need to resist Drain, aren't much better. I know it's a mage, but many of those other stats can also be valuable.

With Body 2 you can't wear that Vashon Island Steampunk outfit without being encumbered. Max armor without penalties is Body x 2. (Form-fitting only counts half, but that still puts you at 3/1 out of a possible 4/4.)

Your skills are really lacking, other than Spellcasting. Assensing 1 (and you Intuition is weak, too, so you'll only have 4 dice--prepare to fail to identify much on the astral), no Perception, weak Infiltration, a useless Dodge 1. Counterspelling is only 3... keep in mind that your team will be counting on you to provide Counterspelling dice if they fight a mage. Only Etiquette for Social skills, squandering that Charisma 6. From what I've calculated, you've only spent 72 BP on skills... that's not nearly enough.

Actually, it seems like you've got some BP unaccounted for. Adding up everything, it seems like you've spent 349 BP plus whatever you put into Resources. Unless you spent the max on Resources (which you shouldn't have needed to do even with the outrageous amount you spent on foci), you should have some left over.

Only one focus may add its Force to any one dice pool. The Power Focus and Spellcasting Focus don't stack. Ditch the Spellcasting Focus and get some Build Points back.

The skills are my main concern. Lots of 1s and 2s for things that you should want to roll well on when the time comes.

[rasmusnicolaj]

Elf

Body 5, Agility 2, Reaction 3, Strength 2, Charisma 7, Intuition 4, Logic 2, Willpower 5, Edge 3, Magic 5.
Initiative 7, IP 1, Drain 12.

Magician, (Shaman), Mentor Spirit (Sun), Restricted Gear.
Gremlins 1, SINner, Sensitive System, Lost Loved One, Vindictive.

Spellcasting 6, Counterspelling 4, Binding 4, Summoning 1, Assensing 1, Arcana 1, Artisan 1, Infiltration 1, Perception 1.
Note: Get specializations and social skills for karma.
18 BP Knowledge skills and languages.

1 Month of Low Lifestyle paid.

Talismonger L2/C4, Street Doc L3/C4, Fixer L2/C5.
Note: Convince your GM that everybody should start with Charisma x2 free contacts. I think it is a fairly common houserule (We use it). Use the 14 BP it frees up to get Reaction +1 or raise one of your skills to 4.

Increase Reflexes, Heal, Levitate, Improved Invisibility, Stunball, Stunbolt, Powerbolt, Metal Wall, Soundwave, Boom.

Power Foc R4, Health Sustaining Foci R3, Form Fitting Body Armor (Softweaved, Nonconductivity R6), Camouflage Suit (Softweaved), Zoé Moonsilver Line Scarf, SecureTech PPP System Forearm Guards, SecureTech PPP System Leg and Arm Casings, SecureTech PPP System Vitals Protector (total armor 17/12), Contact Lenses R3 (Skinlink, Flare Compensation, Vision Enhancement R3), Glasses R3 (Skinlink, Thermographic Vision, Image Link, Vision Magnification), Ear Buds R2 (Spatial Recognizer, Audio Enhancement R3), Metalink with Vector Xim, Novatech Airware with Iris Orb, Program Suit (Basic+, Scan 2, Encrypt 1), Subvocal Microphone, Trodes, AR Gloves, Magesight Goggles, FAKe SIN R3, Fake License R3 (Magician), Fake License R3 (Foci), Fake License R3 (Magesight Goggles), Credstick (Balance 5 nuyen), Microsensor with Range Finder (Skinlink), Microsensor with Motion Sensor (Skinlink), Microsensor with Radio Signal Scanner R6 (Skinlink), Non-Linear Junction Detector R6, Medkit R6, 1 dose of Psyche.

Rasmus

[yaliina]

You guys are awesome!
Although, now I'll be up all night re-configuring my character, lol.  I knew she was probably too "meh".  Now I know how to fix it.  I'll re post her when I get her done. 
Thanks!!

[yaliina]

OK.  I think I've got it.  She looks more like some of the examples (thanks, guys), and I think she'll be much more effective.  I think my problem was I was trying to stretch her too thin.  It's hard to specialize, especially when I was originally intentionally avoiding that specialization. 

First, to address some of the questions/concerns.
Yes, I bought the magician quality (didn't list it seperate from the "mage" title)
I didn't have any BP left over.  It seems like I didn't get everything I wanted done, but I double checked all the numbers, used two different character generators, and double-checked their formulae, too.
My tradition is Path of the Wheel (goes along with back story), so it is (of course) Charisma-based.  I chose this when I originally wanted to make her more of a face/magician, but that didn't work out, lol.
I have Magic, Arsenal and SR4 (of course).  I also used the old Tir na nOg book from SR3 (not the numbers or rules, just the tradition concept and a lot of hx. OK'd w/ DM, of course)

So, everyone seemed to agree that Dodge, Spellcasting focus, low body, low intuition, detect magic, armor, and pistols should go.  Done.

I basically just copied Rasmus' attributes (thank you). Then I used a compilation of the various examples and suggestions to fix the rest (I hope), customizing by my character's background.    My concerns still are:  I hate not having a mundane weapon in case of magic-suppression (of any kind).  Don't mind not spending BP on it, though.  I did keep the taser, figuring I can fire it on Agility alone if absolutely necessary.
Also, I'm not completely certain about the spells I picked.  I do want to have some useful-outside-a-brawl spells, but don't want to waste them, either.
So, how do you like her makeover?

Body   5
Agility   2
React   3
Str      2
Char   7
Intuition   4
Logic   2
Willp   5
Edge   3
Magic   5

Qualities:
    +
Mentor Spirit (Sun)
Restricted Gear
    -
Gremlins (1)
Sensative System
SINner (stand)
Lost Loved One
Vindictive

Skills
Artisan (Jeweler)     1 (6)
Assensing                1 (5)
Counterspelling       4 (5)
Infiltration                   2 (4)
Perception                 1 (4)
Spellcasting              6 (11)
Summoning              2 (5)  (fire spirit specialization+Mentor spirit= +4)    (can I do that?)

Foci
Power Focus                          Force: 4
Sustaining Focus (Health)  Force: 3


Spells
Stunbolt (fetish)
Stunball (fetish)
Powerbolt
Ball Lightning (fetish)
Heal
Increase Reflexes (fetish)
Improved Invisibility (fetish)
Deflection
Levitate
Control Thoughts
Elemental wall (I'll have to cogitate on what element)
Bind

Everything Else
I have standard gear, including but not limited to:
comm
contact lenses with flare comp & Earpieces
stim patches
fake SIN & 3 license for p focus, mage, goggles R3 each
subvocal mic
magesight goggles
Defiance Protector taser w/ extra darts
Form-fit Armor with fire resist 4
"Street" armor (Vashon Island Steampunk garb)
2 pieces of Securetech PPP for +2/2
Glasses with vision mag, thermal and Imagelink
Magical lodge materials (R2)  (do I need this?)

I feel like my skills are still a bit low, but there just isn't any more BP.  I'm actually still 1 BP in the hole, and trying to find it somewhere.  I didn't even buy a contact.  I'm hoping the GM will agree to the suggested house rule of Charisma x2 contacts for free. 

I saw that Rasmus had a lot of items with Skinlink, but I don't know what skinlink is (I read the description 3x and can't figure it out, even though I consider myself somewhat techy).  What does it do?  How does it work in game?

OK, well, thanks a million again.  You guys were super-helpful, and I think all my table-mates will thank you when my mage doesn't completely suck! 
Let me know if you see anything else I missed. 
Ciao!

[TheNarrator]

Don't mind not spending BP on it, though.  I did keep the taser, figuring I can fire it on Agility alone if absolutely necessary.

With one die to roll? (Agility 2 minus one for defaulting.) You're more likely to hurt yourself than the enemy.

(fire spirit specialization+Mentor spirit= +4)    (can I do that?)

Yes, they stack.

I saw that Rasmus had a lot of items with Skinlink, but I don't know what skinlink is (I read the description 3x and can't figure it out, even though I consider myself somewhat techy).  What does it do?  How does it work in game?

Skinlink is basically a way to link together the various electronic devices on your person without having them broadcast radio emissions. It basically lets you turn off the wireless on your personal network without using physical wires.

It's useful for keeping your electronics from being detected and/or hacked during a run.

Magical lodge materials (R2)  (do I need this?)

They're not vital to start with. Magical Lodges are only needed to improve your magical capabilities or do Ritual Sorcery. By the time you have the Karma to need one, you should have the cash to buy them.

Power Focus                          Force: 4

I'm going to differ in opinion from the others on this one: I thought a Power Focus Force 2 was fine. Getting a Force 4 instead means sinking 5 BP into the Restricted Gear quality, 10 BP into the additional nuyen to buy it, and another 2 BP into bonding it. Is another two dice on Magic tests for 17 BP awesome? Yes. But when you're desperately short on skills and 1 BP in the hole, you may have to ask yourself if that's the right choice for you. With only a Force 2 you'd still be throwing 13 dice on spells (15 dice for Combat spells thanks to your mentor spirit). Is adding another two dice to that more important than the four points of skills that you could otherwise have? Only you can decide that.

[JustADude]

Power Focus                          Force: 4

I'm going to differ in opinion from the others on this one: I thought a Power Focus Force 2 was fine. Getting a Force 4 instead means sinking 5 BP into the Restricted Gear quality, 10 BP into the additional nuyen to buy it, and another 2 BP into bonding it. Is another two dice on Magic tests for 17 BP awesome? Yes. But when you're desperately short on skills and 1 BP in the hole, you may have to ask yourself if that's the right choice for you. With only a Force 2 you'd still be throwing 13 dice on spells (15 dice for Combat spells thanks to your mentor spirit). Is adding another two dice to that more important than the four points of skills that you could otherwise have? Only you can decide that.

Power Foci cost (F*8 ) Karma to bond in play. The standard conversion rate says 1 BP = 2 Karma and 1 Karma = 2,500¥. That means, if you do the math you'll find that buying a F4 Focus in CGen is actually cheaper, in the long run.

And yes, speaking as someone who has played a Mage, +2 dice is worth it. That's almost an entire extra Net Hit... and 1 Net Hit is either +1 DV or the difference between a spell fizzling or holding.

[UmaroVI]

Yes, that force 4 power focus is totally worth it. 17 BP for +2 on all your magic tests is an amazingly good deal.

The Element you want on Element Wall is any element you can get your GM to agree is solid and opaque. Metal is a pretty unambiguous choice. The reason it needs to be opaque, not just solid, is that it's actually very easy to fire guns right through a non-opaque wall.

Bind is a bad spell.

Deflection is also a bad spell because Increase Reaction does that better. I'm not sure you want Increase Reaction either though, I'd probably take Increase Charisma instead. You can cast it on yourself before summoning (+5 drain dice is worth a -2 sustaining penalty) and it's also pretty versatile (you can cast it on whoever is doing your face-ing before negotiations, for example).

I'd replace Bind with something that isn't bad. Mind Probe, Physical Mask, and Trid Phantasm are all good choices.

[rasmusnicolaj]

Skills at 2 is not very efficient karma vice.
And I don't think you need Summoning at more than 1. You roll Magic + Summoning + Specialization + Mentor Spirit + Power Foci. That is between 10 and 14 dices and the spirit only roll Force. You can summon big enough spirits with that. Binding is harder and with Charisma 7 you have potential for a lot of bound spirit servants.

Rasmus

[yaliina]

OK, so I have taken all advice under consideration.  I'm keeping the 4 Power focus, since good points were made for it (and it actually goes with back-story and is just cool). 
I reduced edge by 1 because I just had to find the BP to get a contact (per GM), and was already skimping on gear, etc. for all the BP it took to get 12 spells, etc.

I split the summoning skill points, and instead, just put one point into Conjuring (since it was ultimately cheaper).

As for spells... I'm not sure, still.  So, Umaro, why wouldn't I want both Deflection AND Increased Reflexes?  won't that keep me from getting hit?  I think the GM is going to be sure I get shot at at least some (he indicated that every character can expect to draw fire), and he's kinda old-school "geek the mage" philosophy, too (which I don't disagree with).  So, the question is, don't I need some kind of protection spell in addition to Increased Reflex?  or would the drain just suck too bad?

Otherwise, I can't really do much about some of the low skills.  I just don't have enough BP. 

I think I've about got it done, thanks to everybody's attention and assistance.  I can't wait to play on Saturday!  My in-laws are coming up to babysit so we can have all evening (marathon session), just like we did in college (except w/out the babysitters, lol). 

[UmaroVI]

Deflection is just bad because Increase Reaction (note that's different than Increase Reflexes) is better always. Increase Reaction is not at all a bad choice - but without a sustaining focus, the -2 on everything makes it iffy to keep up.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Deflection is a good spell, just like combat sense and improved reaction.  Improved reaction is generally the best in that it actually improves your reaction which has a variety of other benefits.(you become a a better driver for example)  If you are sporting a high reaction, like a natural 5 with 2 levels of synaptic booster for a 7 reaction then the other spells start looking fine because they are dice pool modifiers and can exceed you 9ish dice augmented max.  With a 3 reaction just improving your reaction is the best choice. 

Edit to add, this assumes the spell is meant for yourself and you plan on getting a nice sustaining focus in play.  OTOH if you plan on boosting others, deflection or combat sense might be the better choice since they may have capped their reaction.  I played a phys add who rolled 14 dice to avoid attacks without actively dodging, deflection on him would make him virtually untouchable unless facing someone with a PCs dice pool.

[Hawke]

I like reaction... free ranged defense ( with sustaining focus).  And you dont glow.  You cast armor on your samurai LOL.

Keep a backup plan on the Restricted Gear.  The advice to take it is invaluable.  It would take like 30 karma and 300,000 nuyen to get one after character creation. 

The same advice was given to me... but my GM nixed it.  Said it was too powerful.


Just some advice, like everyone is sharing.  Don't focus too much on being a "combat" mage.  You are playing a mage... a conduit of unlimited power. 

You generally want the following:

Stunbolt (cast at max power everytime, unless you dont need your energy lingering around)
Stunball
Generic physical damaging spell,,,either single target or AoE
Increased Reflexes
Heal
Some manipulation spell like Control Action ( does not work like DnD, you can make someone shoot themselves in the brain pan, although GM might frown if you keep doing it).
Some kind of defense spell (I like Deflection)


This is of course just starting... the more you play the more spells you can have.  It's 5 karma per spell.

Be careful with gremlins... anything involving electronics could go badly for you... I.e. you are in a getaway van with the rest of your team..... all of a sudden, the van's engine turns off.  Or you try to shoot someone with a smartlink... and the targeting system shuts down.  Just remember it does not just affect you but your team.  Its like bad luck in a way.  An  example from the book is : The clip from a pistol might fall out of the gun.  Or if you are hacking gremlins might change the language of a restricted node to Lithuanian. You have been warned


Your power focus affects everything that deals with magic except for drain. Spellcasting, counterspelling, summoning, etc.

So your Spellcasting skill is actually 5 + 6 + 4 = 15.  So any spell you cast you will have 15 dice to play with to see if you affect your target.  But your drain will be only 12, so keep that in mind.

Your counterspell with 4 points in it , would be 9 total from your magic skill.  and of course 13 with your power focus.

Naturally, when the game starts,,, before you meet with anyone , summon up a spirit at your max magic level and when you bind it... spend your edge on the roll... this is to give you a better chance to explode your 6s and bind it.  The more hits, the more services.  And don't forget to choose his extra power.

[Henzington]

there is a cheap and dirty solution to stun damage.  Stim patches.