[Phoenix8008]

Copied from the thread 'Rigger Attributes and Skills' because I didn't want to throw the other thread off topic:

Also, there are three kinds of rigging, it'd be useful to know which one/ones you plan on using. The types are:
Autonomous Control: You issue commands and let the drones carry out the commands on their own. In this case, upgrading the drones is usually more important than your stats really. The drones will be rolling pilot + any relevant autosoft + any modifiers.

Command Rigging: You use your command program to directly remote control a given drone. Very effective due to the ease of getting a high command rating program, but every action you take is automatically a complex action. Usually here you're going to want to focus on a commlink that can run the high rating command programs and getting the skills you'll need (you'll always be rolling Command Rating + Skill for your rolls, instead of the normal Att + Skill).

Jumped In: You actually go VR and "are" the machine, seeing through it's sense and controlling it directly through DNI. In this case you'll want to focus on getting your response (drone) and sensors (drone) extremely high so that you have more dice (they replace your normal att for using skills in the drone).

I'm trying to build not just a rigger, but a technomancer rigger. Having a tough time making a 400BP version. Looking at the above, I'm wondering about being able to go lighter on some areas if there are overlaps that I don't have to cover both sides of. Having not played SR in quite awhile and never having run a rigger, I'm not sure which of the 3 control schemes mentioned above would be best. I'm guessing the other PC's wouldn't care highly for the rigger to stay outside of the immediate action on a run and just be sending his drones in with the party. (Unless he's driving/flying the getaway vehicle outside of the run location. But that wouldn't be every run probably.) As I understand it, that's one of the past complaints about Hackers in prev editions.

So, any advice on which of these control schemes would be best, or any other advice for building a techno/rigger if anybody has experience with such?

[UmaroVI]

Take a look at the Info Savant in my sig.

On the "remote rigging" thing, having a well-armored, reasonably small drone or vehicle with a Rigger Cocoon is a good way to stay close to the action.

[Phoenix8008]

Take a look at the Info Savant in my sig.

On the "remote rigging" thing, having a well-armored, reasonably small drone or vehicle with a Rigger Cocoon is a good way to stay close to the action.

And that Info Savant is a 400 BP build? May have to print that out and mod that some if so. I'm actually trying to build this character to a concept for another player that knows nada about shadowrun yet. In the process of getting ready for an eventual campaign. He liked the idea of Technomancy and prefered to rig drones and vehicles over hacking in the matrix. Still gonna be fun trying to backwards engineer some of that to determine where skills/complex forms/autosofts are needed most. And the player I'm making this for may have to live with specializing in the areas more needed for the missions (rigging drones) instead of some of the more roleplay skills like Armorer or Cybertechnology. Maybe just one skill point in each so he doesn't have to default at least if he wants to try them.

[Henzington]

its a bit harder to make a technomancer rigger because you need another skill group which you wouldnt as a hacker.  Actually you just need command for remote operation which isnt as good as jumped in but its not hard to build into that later just need pilot skill.

[Phoenix8008]

Take a look at the Info Savant in my sig.

On the "remote rigging" thing, having a well-armored, reasonably small drone or vehicle with a Rigger Cocoon is a good way to stay close to the action.

Hold on, hold on... The Dodge Guardian vehicle is a motorcycle adapted to have an enclosed Rigger Cocoon and walking legs instead of tires so that the rigger just goes into the building with the other runners inside that get-up?

[_Pax_]

Take a look at the Info Savant in my sig.

On the "remote rigging" thing, having a well-armored, reasonably small drone or vehicle with a Rigger Cocoon is a good way to stay close to the action.

Hold on, hold on... The Dodge Guardian vehicle is a motorcycle adapted to have an enclosed Rigger Cocoon and walking legs instead of tires so that the rigger just goes into the building with the other runners inside that get-up?

Consider something like this:
Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman
B 6, Sen 2, Han +2, Fir 6, Pil 4, Rsp 5, Sig 5, Init 9, IP 3
Physical Condition Monitor: 11
Armor (Vehicle): 16 [10]
Skills: Maneuver: Ground 4
Gear:
. . Armor, Concealed (10)
. . Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman Drone Module
. . Drone Rack, Small Landing
. . ECCM (4)
. . Firewall (6)
. . Maneuver: Ground (4)
. . Morphing License Plate
. . Personal Armor ( 8 )
. . Pilot (4)
. . Response Upgrade (5)
. . Rigger Adaptation
. . Rigger Cocoon, Basic
. . Signal Upgrade (5)
. . Smart Tires x3
. . Spoof Chips

Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
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Upgrading the rating on individual sensors in it's existing package would be helpful, too.  You could possibly forgo the Personal Armor to add a Mechanical Arm - but that drone launch rack will handle a Ford LEDB-1, which already comes with one ...

[Falconer]

Just be aware, Umaro likes to play fast and loose with the rules sometimes.

By RAW drones don't carry passengers making anything which adds them a non-standard modification (which means the GM might penalize speed and handling, vehicle signature, etc. for it)... yet he stuffs a rigger cocoon on one anyhow.

Many GM's will catch this and beat you silly for it... Use 2 slots to slip on a 'Special Storage' passenger compartment able to seat someone up to body 6 inside the drone.  Then toss the rigger cocoon inside that.  I've found they're much more amenable to that.  (plus since you're inside the drone you get it's armor AND the cocoon).


Yeah Phoenix:...
the idea is to build a 'mini-tank' or 'mini-mech' and sorta go old-school... when riggers used to sit inside the vehicles they rigged.  With large drones or small vehicles it's doable...   The least controversial drones do this with are the large cargo/supply models like the auxila, or even the schildkrote since it has storage for hazardous materials.  (you are hazardous aren't you?! .

The horseman is the absolute least controversial way to go about it.  Since it's a small personal mobility vehicle designed to go inside buildings and carry a passenger.
My personal preference is the advanced cargo model.  Any drones you have with you by the time you're in the building in a super slow walker drone should be capable of moving under their own power and should be launching from another vehicle like a bulldog (you're sure as hell not making a getaway in a walker mode horseman).  With two full mechanical arms you can literally pick up and operate things like say an assault rifle (no need for a weapon mount). or if you can talk your GM into modifying the full mechanical arms with cyberguns and other cyberlimb accessories using capacity!   (like say a cyberlimb gyro, cyberlimb SMG).  (see mechanical arms/limbs mod).

p102: Mechanical Arms and Legs... jumped-in rigger...  (one of their example skills is a personal combat non-rigger skill like blades!... why not pistols.. or automatics).
p139: at GM's discretion... full arms can be tricked out with accessories just like a full cyberlimb.  (nothing says loving like a combat axe in the trunk and two arms with +7 strength augmentations...  (strength == body of the vehicle)... so that's strength 13 total... meaning you're doing troll levels of damage with that toy.

But yeah with 6 mod slots... you're probably looking at either walker mode or smart wheels, hidden armor 10 or obvious armor 12.  Cocoon.  By that point you'll have used up 2-5 of the 6 mod slots.

Just be aware with walker mode... you're not going anywhere fast... especially after the 20% penalty to speed and acceleration for having more armor than your body score.  (errata)

[_Pax_]

[...] slow walker drone [...]

  The default Horseman is wheeled.    Smart Tires should make it stair-capable - especially with Gecko Tips.  Arguably, a Gnome in a Horseman might be able to drive straight up a stone wall ...

With two full mechanical arms [...]

  The arm of the Advanced Cargo module was downgraded to a Grapple arm in the errata. 

But yeah with 6 mod slots... you're probably looking at either walker mode or smart wheels, hidden armor 10 or obvious armor 12.  Cocoon.  By that point you'll have used up 2-5 of the 6 mod slots.

  Don't forget Personal Armor. 

[Falconer]

Gecko tips are only available for medium drones and smaller....  horseman is a full-fledged vehicle (I like using them on doberman drones!)

[/sing]How much is that doggie on the cieling... [/offkey sing]


Horseman arms:
I was going off the 2nd printing of the Arsenal book... they didn't fix the errata in there?!  Now that's really really annoying.  So that's one or two more mod slots used up... upgrading the arms from grapple to full hand.

Double checked errata... yeah there's a FEW entries off the errata which made it into the reprint... but most of them didn't... *sigh*... talk about a PITA.


Personal Armor:
Is pretty much a waste by that point... if you're inside a rigger cocoon inside the vehicle armor...   At that point I'd rather look at something useful like chameleon coating or efficient system/extra batteries for double the run time. (barring any other things assume a vehicle/drone has enough fuel/juice to run for 6 hours).

[_Pax_]

Gecko tips are only available for medium drones and smaller....  horseman is a full-fledged vehicle (I like using them on doberman drones!)

"At the gamemaster’s discretion, large drones and vehicle may be equipped with gecko tips, but it is rare for them to find surfaces/materials that can hold their weight without ripping away chunks of it."

I tend to treat it, on larger drones/vehicles, as just "perfect traction". 

[UmaroVI]

Just be aware, Umaro likes to play fast and loose with the rules sometimes.

By RAW drones don't carry passengers making anything which adds them a non-standard modification (which means the GM might penalize speed and handling, vehicle signature, etc. for it)... yet he stuffs a rigger cocoon on one anyhow.

Adding rigger cocoons to drones is 100% RAW. I have no idea to what extent is was intended, but the rules are completely clear about this. Rigger cocoon is Standard. Standard can explicitly go on everything but Microdrones and Minidrones.

That said, a lot of people feel this is silly and you may want to ask your GM.

The main reason to use the Caterpillar is that it looks legal (IMO, I would actually leave off the hidden F mods so it is actually just legal and can pass even close inspection). The Dodge Guardian method is more expensive, but the big advantage is that the Guardian is R, but has a weapon mount, so you can arm it and still have a license for it. The reason to use a smallish thing (like a motorcycle or a horseman) as a base is so it can go more places. It's still big, but it's more troll-sized, so it can fit most places the group goes - it's handy for when you need to be on-site because of faraday cages or wi-fi blocking paint or whatever.