[Falconer]

There's nothing in the rules even against a 0:5 or 5:0 split on a mystic adept.  It's only suggested that the GM not allow players to abuse the option...

Effectively the mystic adept pays PP for sorcery...  It's no different than any other adept power like mystic armor or combat sense in that aspect.

I've been known to waste 5 points on an adept just to leave open the possibility of grabbing some limited type aspected ability in the future.  (be it some weak summoning ability, or the ability to cast a weak utility spell now and then).

[_Pax_]

Effectively the mystic adept pays PP for sorcery...  It's no different than any other adept power like mystic armor or combat sense in that aspect.

  In SR3, it wasn't just "effectively", it was explicitly that way.  And a Geasa to reduce the cost, could get you 4 Magic for sorcery, from only 3 PP. 

[Glorthoron]

Effectively the mystic adept pays PP for sorcery...  It's no different than any other adept power like mystic armor or combat sense in that aspect.

I'm pretty sure it is.  A mystic adept's magic points (not power points) have to be divided between spell casting ability and physad powers.  Unless you can point to the rules where they describe a mystic adept's spellcasting ability as a physad power.

[Falconer]

The rules say... "Characters who wish to become mystic adepts have the OPTION of splitting their Magic attributes between spellcasting and conjuring or physical abilities."   p195 SR4a.

It's not forced.   

Again it's only a GM suggestion to limit abuse...  outside of rules chicanery some posters like Neraph like to pull.  (go full mystic adept... abuse the PP when initiating for grossly reduced adept power costs... just buy metamagics cheaply for a flat 15karma each; then abuse drugs whenever you actually want to astrally project),   That's abuse... a character simply making a very limited mage who can't assense/project using mystic adept instead... not really a problem.  (or you could go down the route of an aspected negative quality).

I have zero problems with the PP for initiation for straight adepts... but for mystic adepts I generally wouldn't allow it.  (they have no shortage of usable metamagics... unlike an adept who only has maybe 2 to 4 before he runs out).  It also makes the split much less painless when they're only paying initiation costs for new power points (especially after a -40% karma cost reduction).

[Glorthoron]

The rules say... "Characters who wish to become mystic adepts have the OPTION of splitting their Magic attributes between spellcasting and conjuring or physical abilities."   p195 SR4a.

It's not forced.   

You are right.  It is not forced.  The character can dedicate his magic attribute towards powers and/or sorcery/conjuring in whatever way he sees fit.  Later on you will read in the rules that power points are equal to a physad's (or mystad's) magic attribute (magic attribute dedicated to powers).  Which, in turn, will mean that those mystad power points that are gained in place of metamagic ability, cannot be used to increase the sorcery/conjuring magic portion of a mystad.

[_Pax_]

Unless you can point to the rules where they describe a mystic adept's spellcasting ability as a physad power.

AR3, where MysAds first appeared.

[Glorthoron]

Unless you can point to the rules where they describe a mystic adept's spellcasting ability as a physad power.

AR3, where MysAds first appeared.

AR3?

or do you mean SR3?

because if you do mean SR3, I think it should be pointed out that we're discussing SR4.  Just because it was in SR3, doesn't mean it's now in SR4.  Unless you've wandered into an SR3 discussion I missed it. 

[Glorthoron]

Here is what I am presenting to my players as an option:

Everytime a Physad initiates, he or she can choose to take a power point in place of a metamagic ability (as per the optional rule); however, the maximum number of times a physad can do this is equal to his Magic Attribute (this prevents the reoccurance of the original problem: overpowered physads.).

[TheNarrator]

That limit is actually already in effect, since you can't initiate more times than your Magic Attribute.

[Glorthoron]

That limit is actually already in effect, since you can't initiate more times than your Magic Attribute.

Good point.

[raggedhalo]

AR3, where MysAds first appeared.

(Assuming you mean SR3)

Nope, they actually first turned up - although not by that name - in Awakenings: New Magic In 2057, which was an SR2 book.  And there, yes, you could put Magic points towards spellchucking.  That is not the case in SR4A though.

[_Pax_]

Unless you can point to the rules where they describe a mystic adept's spellcasting ability as a physad power.

AR3, where MysAds first appeared.

AR3?

or do you mean SR3?

  Yes.  Unfortunate typo on my part.

because if you do mean SR3, I think it should be pointed out that we're discussing SR4.  Just because it was in SR3, doesn't mean it's now in SR4.  Unless you've wandered into an SR3 discussion I missed it.

  So what?  The question was, when did Mystic Adepts ever have an Adept power that granted them spellcasting (etc).  I answered that question: "in the prior edition."

[Glorthoron]

Unless you can point to the rules where they describe a mystic adept's spellcasting ability as a physad power.

AR3, where MysAds first appeared.

AR3?

or do you mean SR3?

  Yes.  Unfortunate typo on my part.

because if you do mean SR3, I think it should be pointed out that we're discussing SR4.  Just because it was in SR3, doesn't mean it's now in SR4.  Unless you've wandered into an SR3 discussion I missed it.

  So what?  The question was, when did Mystic Adepts ever have an Adept power that granted them spellcasting (etc).  I answered that question: "in the prior edition."

And I thought I was pedantic.

[Mason]

I just thought I would point out, that if both the Optional rule of purchasing PP instead of a metamagic AND the Optional Rule of buying Metamagic for 15 Karma is in effect at the same time, the absolute maximum PP you could potentially achieve is still only Magic + Magic+ Initiate Grade, as you cannot buy more metamagics with that Optional Rule than your Magic score.

So, a Magic 8 Grade 2 Adept who spent 35 (Magic 7) and 40 (Magic and 13 (Initiate 1) and 16 (Initiate 2) and 120 (Metamagic times Karma could have 18 PP, with Power caps of 8, for the low, low price of 224 Karma. That isn't difficult at all, folks.

It balances fairly well until you add in Way of the Adept and Geasa, which can create some issues with certain high PP cost powers at high Ratings for low cost. If you use all the Optional Adept rules available, they can become quite powerful, but since they are so nerfed to begin with, it does not matter much. I can honestly say the most effective combat member of my party is a toss up betwen an elf adept swordsman and the troll street sam, and I use the Geasa plus Ways plus Additional PP plus buying metamagics rules together. The adept dodges better and has more armor, but the troll has more offense and almost as much defense.

[terror13]

I don't think you got correct information here.

First off, when you initiate, you get a free power point if your an adept or mystic adept and choose that.

Regardless of your magic rating.

Secondly you can initiate an amount of times up to your magic rating, initiate just increases ur maximum CAPACITY.

So you can initiate 6 times if you have 6 magic rating (chargen) before you need to start raising your magic rating.


So you can get 6 more power points before u gotta start spending that ultra heavy karma, and the power point IS FREE when u complete an initiation.