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New GM looking for advice

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RandomEpic

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« on: <07-01-12/0007:27> »
So I have been flipping through the Shadworun book and some pdfs and have decided to run a campaign in it, still I'd like some advice on the game itself

1st of all how have you guys sold Shadowrun to your players before, I'm trying to figure out a better way to get them interested beyond a "it's Tolkien meets Bladerunner" tag

2nd the game is going to go through the On the Run book so I and my group can get used to the system, is this a good call or no?

3rd how viable are melee characters in Shadworun mechanic wise? I know at least one of my players is going to want to be a Elf Adept Swordmaster

And that's about it, but if you have any other info to help beyond what I'm asking that will be appreciated as well  :).

Cass100199

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« Reply #1 on: <07-01-12/0022:56> »
1) When I started playing, back in the 1st Ed days, it was  as simple as my GM going "Hey, let's play this." So, YMMV, but we were always up fro something new. I wouldn't bring Tolkien into it.

2) Probably.

3) As good as any other concept. Only problem you run in to is that dude can be a badass mofo swordsman swingin' steel all over the place and pretending he's Aragorn; hundred feet away is a security guy with an Ares Alpha and all your melee craft just went to hell. This isn't a game where you can get away with being a one trick pony.
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Glyph

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« Reply #2 on: <07-01-12/0138:30> »
Shadowrun is not just a mix of magic and near-future weaponry, where cyborgs and hackers rub shoulders with mages and magic-infused martial artists.  It is a world where you have no level or character classes, so you can custom-craft the character you want.  And you hit the ground running, as tough, seasoned characters.  A mage, for example, could be a cigar-chomping ork dressed in a mix of camo and grungy goth, with a tribal tattoo on the side of his shaved head, toting an assault rifle and an enchanted K-bar knife.  And he can start out summoning fire elementals and tossing lightning bolts - or chucking grenades.

Adventure books are fine, but always read all the way through them, then adjust them for the characters.  If everyone is playing badass gun-fu experts, then a couple of gang punks won't be the same challenge that they would be for a group consisting of a seedy detective, a tech school dropout who hacks computers, and a neotribal shaman focused mainly on healing.

Melee characters are viable - but like sniping, it is a niche role.  So the player should make sure that swordfighting is not the be-all and end-all for his character.  He should have some ranged skills, and be at least passable at a few non-combat things, like sneaking.  But the good news is that some of the things that make a good melee character - like being tough or having multiple initiative passes - are good for combat in general.

Mirikon

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« Reply #3 on: <07-01-12/0753:55> »
1st of all how have you guys sold Shadowrun to your players before, I'm trying to figure out a better way to get them interested beyond a "it's Tolkien meets Bladerunner" tag
Well, in my D&D group, we have another person who is the primary DM. As a Christmas present, I told him I'd take the big chair for a while. So while the D&D game was still going on, I laid the groundwork. First, I gave them some movies they could watch to get the feel of things, Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, and Johnny Mnemonic being some of the primary ones. I told them to picture a world like those movies, but with dragons and magic added in. Second, I gave them each copies of the "History for the Reality Impaired" section of the core book, to give them a primer on the setting. Third, I made certain they were aware that they weren't going to be heroes, and the D&D method of walk in, kill everything that moves, and loot the bodies was going to get them very dead, very quickly. Fourth, I grabbed Runner's Toolkit. The Anatomy of a Shadowrun file and the cheat sheets were invaluable. Finally, I promised them that it would be a change of pace from D&D.

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2nd the game is going to go through the On the Run book so I and my group can get used to the system, is this a good call or no?
Big mistake, IMHO. On the Run is not a very intuitive adventure. If your group isn't paranoid enough to chase the rabbits down their holes, you're going to miss out on half the run. If they take a "I do the job, I get paid, I go home" attitude (which is a perfectly acceptable attitude for a runner, BTW), then they won't see half the module. On the Run is best left until after they've got some experience, especially after they've been screwed good at least once by Mr. Johnson. That way, they'll be more likely to pry into all those things they don't really need to know about.

A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.

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3rd how viable are melee characters in Shadworun mechanic wise? I know at least one of my players is going to want to be a Elf Adept Swordmaster
Encourage your player to have some kind of ranged attack ability as well. A melee character can do well, especially if they shape the battlefield to suit them. Ranged attacks have a better shot of hitting, but, especially for Awakened characters, there are things that only melee can handle. If your elf swordmaster adept gets a Weapon Focus, he will be devastating against spirits, for instance. When you need to take down a person quickly and quietly, melee attacks from surprise have a better chance of dropping the person without making a lot of noise.

However, Melee does have its limits. Crossing wide open spaces while under fire is NOT a good idea, which means you're going to want to have some ranged ability. And no sword has the stopping power or intimidation effect of a belt-fed machine gun on FA.

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And that's about it, but if you have any other info to help beyond what I'm asking that will be appreciated as well  :).
For the love of all that is holy, check your players' characters before they are accepted into play. Do this not only to weed out things that are too powerful, but also to give them a chance to redo things if their character is going to be basically useless most of the time, or if there are errors in the sheet. It is so much easier to revise things before the game starts than it is to redo a character that is already in play.

Make sure everyone has the same idea of the setting and the game. While Pink Mohawk and Black Trenchcoat are both great ways to play the game, having both styles in the same group is just asking for trouble.

Make your players come up with a background and description for their characters. These don't have to be long, maybe a paragraph for the description and 3-4 paragraphs for the background. Make them name and give a 1 paragraph description of each of their contacts. Doing all this has two purposes. First, it helps them realize the character as an individual, rather than a collection of stats and skills. Second, it provides you with plot hooks to be used at your leisure.

Be accepting of the unusual. The Sixth World is a world of strangeness. You literally have real-live catgirls running around, people who can access the internet with their minds, individuals who have more chrome than meat left in their bodies, and DRAGONS. What was unusual is par for the course. However, remind your characters that being unusual is a double-edged sword. It makes you special, but 'special' means you get noticed more. And unless they are very good at covering their tracks, a shadowrunner that gets noticed everywhere they go doesn't tend to live very long.
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Teknodragon

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« Reply #4 on: <07-01-12/1622:31> »
Give 'em a 'sandbox' run through Food Fight or the equivalent, and let them tweak their characters after. I regret not having been able to do that with my first-ever character in SR.
If possible, get a good look at the character sheets before the first game, and write up 'cheat sheets' on rules that come into play. Bob the Sammy has a full-auto weapon? Note down the various dicepool mods for burst and full auto fire. A copy of the mage's spell descriptions are handy, too.
I highly suggest that players bring their own cheatsheets as well; I usually write up a new one for each character listing abilities, and a list of common rolls/dice pools. It is good to be able to glance at the back of my character sheet and know that the 'standard' dice pool for her pistol is 13.
On that thought, you might want to do similar for the NPCs. Each player has just a single character (aside from drones or spirits); you have an entire world to play! Making combat go faster allows more fun story/RP time.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #5 on: <07-01-12/1646:26> »
Food Fight is a good one, but it all depends on how new to SR the group is. I know that at this point, my group is a bit sick of it because several of us have been through that so many times that a good chunk of our characters pack as though going into a warzone to go to the Stuffer Shack.
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RandomEpic

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« Reply #6 on: <07-01-12/1718:28> »
Alright thanks alot for the advice this is definitely going to help

I'm probably going to have a day solely for char creation and put them through a sandbox to get used to everything at the end before I do an actual session

@Cass100199 & Glyph thanks for the advice

@Mirikon

A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.


Any mission in particular, also Pink Mohawk and Back Trench coat? Is that just punk vs. matrix esque runners or no?

@Teknodragon & All4BigGuns

Thanks and what's Food Fight?

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #7 on: <07-01-12/1730:54> »
Food Fight is the module in the Quick Start stuff.
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Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #8 on: <07-01-12/1747:35> »
Food Fight is the free adventure that you can download from the Shadowrun site that is a basic intro more to combat then a true adventure, but it is very useful.

I would also recommend getting the runners toolkit. I have run games since 1st edition and found it was worth the purchase for several reasons. Some of them being a good GM screen, the cheat sheets for most common active skill tasks, anatomy of a run (a run that has what happened in the left column and the mechanics that caused it on the right), some basic location maps and much more that is slipping my mind at the moment.

With my current game I let the players (several of which were new to the game) tweak their characters for the first three adventures so that they could modify little things that they overlooked or found a skill they thought was useful and wasn't.

Pink Mohawk as I understand it is guns a blazing shoot em up type game. Black trench coat is more a sneak, observe, misdirect and it(the job) is business type setting where it is less shooting.

I would also echo that a melee specialist needs other skills and a ranged combat skill for every character is pretty much a must in my opinion.

Hope these thoughts help
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Glorthoron

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« Reply #9 on: <07-01-12/2134:36> »
My advice: SR3
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #10 on: <07-01-12/2140:44> »
My advice: SR3

Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
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Glorthoron

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« Reply #11 on: <07-01-12/2141:32> »
My advice: SR3

Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.

Which is the way it should be.  Without skill, attributes are worthless.  IMHO
"It's not enough to complain.  You have to want to be part of the solution."

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #12 on: <07-01-12/2144:46> »
My advice: SR3

Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.

Which is the way it should be.  Without skill, attributes are worthless.  IMHO

Not really. Someone with a huge natural talent but little training (high attribute and low skill) should be able to have at least a chance of keeping up with someone with a lot of training but crap for natural talent (low attribute and high skill) in my own personal opinion. [Disclaimer: This is without resorting to luck such as Edge or whatever.]
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Mirikon

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« Reply #13 on: <07-01-12/2148:21> »
@Mirikon

A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.


Any mission in particular, also Pink Mohawk and Back Trench coat? Is that just punk vs. matrix esque runners or no?
Those describe two different play styles. When you're doing Pink Mohawk, you go with the over the top hair styles, the leather with spikes in it, maybe some caution tape, and go with the concept that any problem can be solved with more explosives. When you're doing Black Trenchcoat, you stick to shadows, don't stand out from the crowd, and if you're getting in a firefight, things have already gone to hell. As I said, both good ways to play the game. But they are very different styles.

As for which missions in particular? If you're starting in 2074 (current game year), I'd go with the beginning of Season 4. That'll get your players starting right in the middle of the Artifacts hunt, as well as the fun with the ORC and Humanis punching it out., and the individual missions are dirt cheap. Plus, they'll give you suggestions on how much to pay the characters, how much karma to give them, suggestions on how to fix things when they break...
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Glorthoron

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« Reply #14 on: <07-01-12/2152:33> »
My advice: SR3

Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.

Which is the way it should be.  Without skill, attributes are worthless.  IMHO

Not really. Someone with a huge natural talent but little training (high attribute and low skill) should be able to have at least a chance of keeping up with someone with a lot of training but crap for natural talent (low attribute and high skill) in my own personal opinion. [Disclaimer: This is without resorting to luck such as Edge or whatever.]

Yes really.  Walk into a Dojo sometime and challenge the elderly, experienced sensai to a fight (assuming you have a small amount of skill).  How much do you want to bet he will clean the floor with you.  :P  I know he would clean it with me.

Attributes should have some effect, but not to the extremety that SR4 offers.  I really liked how they did it in SR3: the better your attribute, the easier it was to improve you skills.  That style is a personal favourite of mine.

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