[Carz]

Chess timers.
[Snip]
I know some here hate it immensely, but I also use Hit Location tables.

I have one player who takes longer than the others, so I've been considering a timer of some type myself; I find it hard to determine what a 'fair' time limit is, though. Sometimes a player at my table will take a probably a few minutes to run their turn because they have lots to do, or to look up (new players), but they have made their action decision and are executing it as fast as they can. The slower player takes the time making the decision, while we all wait, but might still take that same few minutes. I don't really want to force everyone's turn down to 30 seconds (or whatever), but if I set everyone's turn at 3 minutes then the remainder of the players would be 'encouraged' to take longer to complete their turn, thus making the whole combat round longer.


On the it location, you didn't specify, but do you use it for RP or do you add more mechanics to the game?

For example, I'd have no issue with a GM that said (after soak roll) "you get shot for 3 points in the right arm" so that I could RP favoring that arm, with my character not having any extra mechanical penalties to using it. I'd not be so Ok with that shot in the right arm further hampering my ability to fire my gun, beyond the basic wound penalty itself.

I would be much more in favor of the hit location chart that gave additional penalties if it was just a random way of determining a result for a damage-soak glitch or crit glitch, since those results are GM determined anyway.

[ArkangelWinter]

I'm pretty loose without how I do hit location; usually it's just for RP flavor, but for hits that do 3+ boxes of damage, it becomes mechanical. Say a guy takes a Panther shot, resists all but 4 damage. If he takes it to the chest, it's just 4 damage and I inform him he he likely has perforated organs. If he takes it to the hand, I'll rule it as 1 damage but you lost that hand, at least funcionally. He's gonna need surgery or a cyberhand. Leg hit? Less damage, but now movement penalties.

[All4BigGuns]

I have one player who takes longer than the others, so I've been considering a timer of some type myself; I find it hard to determine what a 'fair' time limit is, though. Sometimes a player at my table will take a probably a few minutes to run their turn because they have lots to do, or to look up (new players), but they have made their action decision and are executing it as fast as they can. The slower player takes the time making the decision, while we all wait, but might still take that same few minutes. I don't really want to force everyone's turn down to 30 seconds (or whatever), but if I set everyone's turn at 3 minutes then the remainder of the players would be 'encouraged' to take longer to complete their turn, thus making the whole combat round longer.

My opinion still holds that the only "fair time limit" is No Time Limit. Nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind about such BS.

On the it location, you didn't specify, but do you use it for RP or do you add more mechanics to the game?

For example, I'd have no issue with a GM that said (after soak roll) "you get shot for 3 points in the right arm" so that I could RP favoring that arm, with my character not having any extra mechanical penalties to using it. I'd not be so Ok with that shot in the right arm further hampering my ability to fire my gun, beyond the basic wound penalty itself.

This is why I do not feel hit locations should be used. Too easy to abuse in terms of GMs handing out arbitrary "extra penalties" all in the name of supposed "realism".

[carmachu]

. The timer is what we use and yes it stops the bs at the table when combat comes up. Plus in the case of running astral, matrix, and regular world it helps so people dont hog the time using abilitys, Its a life saver when you have to do indivual times aswell when they split up.

Stopping the BS and OOC conversations and tangets that naturally happen are one thing- I'm all for using the timer for that to speed things up. BUT on the other hand, I have played various RPG games with different folks and have run into several that are just naturally slow people- their processes just run slower then other people and take more time- even when planning ahead a turn it takes them time. (and I'm not talking mentally challenged folks either). It seems to penalize those folks whos inclinations dont run as fast as you(or me or other folks).

[ArkangelWinter]

When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.

Edit: All4, we are aware of your sentiments, and as much as I think.you're wrong, I respect them. That said, repeatedly saying "that's bs" is exactly the least effective way to win hearts and minds.

[carmachu]

When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.

Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM? Faster player is in charge of the iniative sheet- its worked well for us. Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.

[ArkangelWinter]

Good idea - I'll give it a try

[All4BigGuns]

When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.

Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM? Faster player is in charge of the iniative sheet- its worked well for us. Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.

Everyone in the group keeps track of the entire initiative order. We just naturally keep it in mind both so we know who goes before and after our own initiative and if someone has a bout of "cranial flatulence" any one of us can give a reminder of who's up. That said, our main problems with things taking a while is going off on random tangents at times (some are worse than others but everyone's been guilty at least once).

[Carz]

Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM?
[Snip]
Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.

I feel strongly that the GM running is responsible for tracking the Initiative, but when my group is asked for a volunteer to track Init, no one wants to do the job, so it does fall to the GM by default anyway.

However, I have not tried the 'who's up to bat next announcement' type thing. That might actually help us out, even with the slow player.


---

I don't know if its unorthodox or not, but because my group is still in the process of learning Shadowrun 4, but I make sure that both for PCs and NPCs that we all announce the calculation of our die pools.

We start with Skill + Attribute and announce positive modifiers, then negative modifiers. That way the rest of the table can throw in reminders about various other mods we may have forgotten. I’m bad at remembering the wound penalties for NPCs, but since I have little counters next to each NPC on the board, the players can see what I should be subtracting and help me remember.

I’d recommend the practice to any other new group, too.

[ArkangelWinter]

That's a good rule for first learning any game really, and keeps people honest to boot (also a problem I've had previously, solved with unattendec lotion and some hot sauce).

I also keep track of campaigns on a spreadsheet calendar, because events in my 2 groups, events among npcs, and canon events may interact in cool ways, but it's a lot to keep up with.

[DarkLloyd]

I can tell you what Out group uses.
The "Initiator 1000".

We had the same kind of "lag" problems that you are talking about. One of the guys came up with a magnetic dry-erase board then he got strip magnets and label one for each of our characters, then made some for "Bad guy #1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc, Drone 1, 2, 3..... How ever specific you want to label them. Then stick the board up by the GM but plainly visible to all at the table.
That way everyone knows they are about to go or have a lot of people before they go.

It's helped streamline our stuff, from Shadowrun to DnD.

[ArkangelWinter]

It's not that these guys don't know the order, it's that they'll take 10 to 15 minutes per IP to to decide what to do and they're thinking about it the whole time. Say there's 5 mooks, 5 players. "Bob, you're last of 10"...."Bob you're up soon"...pass hits Bob, rest of team knows to go get food because he'll still be thinking another 5 minutes.

Fortunately, one of the 2 guys causing the lag at our table is a good horror GM because he is the most descriptive speaker I've ever met. When he spends forever to decide "aw well, I shoot it", you wanna kill him. 15 minutes of monologue about the Otherworldy Temple in front of you, kind of enthralling.

[Glorthoron]

I don't like the players knowing who's next after the current turn until it comes.  Especially in regards to them knowing who, on the other team, is next.  It takes away from the suspense, in my opinion.

[Bastwolf]

One of the best ideas I've seen both as a player and that I have implemented as a GM is having players place their hand on their head when they are talking out of character. It works fantastically if your group has a tendency to go off topic frequently as you have other players play off of what is being said.

EX: I had a member who was talking to one of my friends who was spectating (we had just finished character sheets and only had about 2 hours left to play so we made her a character later) they were in a relatively loud conversation and as a GM/player I reacted as though everything the member said was in character. The conversation stopped and we returned to the game.