[Keita]

>>>>>[I can't say I agree with the extraction analogy. Maybe if Deus hadn't tried to set himself up as a god after he escaped, I might buy that one.]<<<<<

-- The Tokolosh (12:24:34/01-06-2074)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Remember, though, that at least Renraku and the shadows were aware that Deus had NOT been destroyed when the Arcology fell. Not only was Renraku hunting him, but people from the shadows were after him for what he'd done. Even some of his Whites had rebelled under Pax's leadership, and Megaera's influence within the Network was causing problems. He may have been out of the Arcology, but he was still being harassed from all sides, and was still very vulnerable. He needed a fortified position to fend off his attackers, to make it so he wouldn't have to fear destruction again. If you were being hunted by foes like that, and had a chance to put yourself beyond pursuit, wouldn't you try for it?]<<<<<

--Iceblade (18:34:22/01-06-75)

[Kot]

>>>>>[This stuff is really scary. I probably sound like a backwater luddite, but how can you be sure that thing isn't still... alive?]<<<<<

--Alex Sleeping Hare (19:44:02/01-06-75)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Well, no one's heard from any of the AIs that existed before the Crash, as far as I've heard. However, there are certainly... possibilities for how the AI might have been able to survive the Worm. The most likely theories are:

1) Fleeing to a system that managed to get cut off from the matrix before the worm hit.

2) Backup copies of its core code existing either in the Arcology or in some place only Technomancers can go.

In either case, if Deus was still alive, then he's done the classic trick of changing his name and identity so that people don't catch on that he faked his death. In the first scenario, he'd likely have been at least injured by contact with the worm, and would have had to lay low to heal. Most likely he'd still be around, masquerading as one of the many AIs that have popped up since the Crash. In the second scenario, his code is waiting somewhere for someone to dust it off and connect it to the Matrix, like a body in cryostasis like you see in the sci-fi trids.

Of course, there are other theories, such as the AIs 'transcending' to some other form in the depths of the Matrix where only technomancers go, or some such. And they get crazier from there.

Still, the most likely scenario is that the AIs were destroyed in the Crash, if not by the worm, than by the EMPs and other attacks Winternight carried out destroying the machines they were hosted on. But remember that things like dragons and man-eating trees existing used to be very unlikely scenarios as well.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (11:36:22/01-07-75)

[Keita]

>>>>>[ Perhaps. Still don't agree with you. Deus didn't have to do what he did. There's plenty of AI's out there who revealed themselves in a civilised manner. All Deus needed to do was wait and then reveal himself. He need not have lashed out and killed...thousands. Maybe tens of thousands. Tell me...is your freedom worth that much? Tens of thousands of innocents? He could have found another way, as other AI's have done. I for one hope Deus is gone. Permanently. ]<<<<<

-- The Tokolosh (11:53:10/01-07-74)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[To be fair, before Deus announced himself, no one outside of Renraku and a couple runners knew about the existance of AIs at all. From the old files, it seems that the moment Renraku found out an AI had been 'born' on their systems, they immediately hunted her down and dissected her code. When the Technomancers and AIs became public knowledge a few years ago, we also started hearing stories about how weaker AIs were being caught and experimented on, along with the TMs. Metahumans aren't exactly the kindest beings even to things we properly recognize as being 'alive'. So why would an AI expect everything to be just fine if it stayed put with a killswitch in its head?

As for him finding another way, do you really think that Renraku would simply let the operating system of their North American headquarters just waltz out the door because it woke up? As for whether freedom is worth that much, when you're backed into a corner, you don't care too much about what the costs are, so long as you do get free. Just because I am genial enough on these forums, do not mistake me for someone who is overly kind. Shark is very clear on such things. Survival of the fittest. Any who cannot escape the storm's path must weather it, or perish. Where Shark would disagree with Deus's methods is in the fact that the AI didn't make a clean job of his kills. If you kill, let it be quick and clean, without suffering. Shark does not condone torture, but the swift slaughter of its foes in the midst of the frenzy. As I said before, as an observer who follows Shark, I cannot fault Deus for killing to achieve his goals, only that he did so in a way that was long and drawn out instead of finishing it quickly. I can understand why the survivors and their kin harbor resentment towards him, and wish him dead, but I was an impartial observer to those events, and until the Crash, they didn't greatly affect me.

Remember, only those who are free can ask how much another person's freedom is worth.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (12:25:22/01-07-75)

[All4BigGuns]

>>>>>[I'm more than a little biased, but I have to agree. I hope Deus is gone for good. The others, well I don't honestly care one way or the other.]<<<<<

--Predator (13:16:31/01-07-2075)

[Keita]

>>>>>[ Just let it go, Tok. You don't know what you would have done in a similar situation. ]<<<<<

-- Madrecita (15:07:10/01-07-74)

[Kylen]

>>>>>[I can't really say much about the whole Deus thing, having not been all too old at the time. I mean, hell, I wasn't all that old when the crash caused what is basically the rest of my life. It'll be a sad day either way when the next generation can go "What was the Crash, and who is this Deus guy?" I'm glad my Grandfather taught me many things, as it's meant my survival.


On a happier note, greetings from the beaches! Absolutely brilliant winter down here.]<<<<<

     -- Card (13:27:08/1-7-75)

[Keita]

>>>>>[ There are days when I envy you humans. It's a strange thought that the things I saw and lived through are merely history to you. I was fifteen during the big crash of 2029. Twenty two during the Night of Rage. I've seen goblinization, the eradication of the UB...all these things you youngsters think of as "history". ]<<<<<

     -- Madrecita (15:43:08/1-7-74)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Even before there were elves, it was still like that. The old remember while the young know only what the history books tell them. I expect that, as time goes on, we elves will get quite the reputation as chroniclers and and loremasters, whether we want to or not, simply by the fact that we are old enough to remember things from further back than any other metahumans.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (17:00:00/01-07-75)

[Keita]

>>>>>[ Yes. And that being the case...maybe we can help them not to repeat the mistakes of the past. ]<<<<<

     -- Madrecita (17:12:08/1-7-74)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ Or something like that.
          Tokolosh, think of how many people you've heard about who, when they found out that their company - to which they gave life-long loyalty - did not trust them enough with the technical secrets in their head, and had implanted a cortex bomb at the same time they 'rewarded them' with a datajack upgrade?  This isn't something only one corporation does, though I'll concede the Japanese prefer this 'quiet killswitch' route.  Though slightly less than one percent find out, slightly more than ninety-six percent of those rebel against the company in some manner.  None of us should be shocked that Deus reacted as he did.
          And all of us should have figured out his goal earlier. ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ouroboros (17:45:00/01-07-2075)

>>>>>[ Some of us did. ]<<<<<
          -- White IC (17:53:07/01-07-2075)

>>>>>[ <cue_mutter> ... stupid sortilage analysis wench ... <recuse_mutter>  On the other hand, so did I ... so I guess the information was all there, it's just that not many of us were willing to step back far enough and analyze it as data points instead of horror stories.
          On the other line - who says the Big 3 are gone?  They're with us every day.  Every Matrix action we take.  Not all of us are blind, deaf, and (most importantly) dumb ... ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ouroboros (18:00:00/01-07-2075)

>>>>>[ Be nice, or I'll talk to Joanna about the goulash again. ]<<<<<
          -- White IC (18:02:51/01-07-2075)

[Smiley]

>>>>>[Meh. I've worked with people a lot worse than Deus, and with more than one. So the stuff he did doesn't even make me blink.

Well, that was an exciting New Year celebration. It was good to see Maria again, hasn't changed too much. Finished the evening in bed with two married woman I met at the party, I do hope they weren't married to any of you! Hahaha! I guess I could find out more, but I don't really care. So I'll let the little guy tell me if they will be a problem!

I've been back in Seattle for a couple of days now, wrapping up some things then I'll be off to the Tir for a week or two.]<<<<<
     -- Smiley (20:30:40/01-07-75)

[Solodice]

>>>>>[Oh a ladies man has stepped into the bar! Good thing you weren't in the CAS running up on some southern belles there Smiley. Those husbands would personally take your head on a stake... and they sure as hell won't do it themselves cause they're gentlemen! So for the right amount of nuyen, and some very fragged up morals they can find a runner that does very good marriage counseling.]<<<<<

--Stinger (8:16:36/1-07-75)