[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Indeed, Operator. One can know the terms 'giri', 'face', and 'nemawashi', but unless one has truly lived them, one cannot understand the intricacies of the Japanese shadows. Slotting an etiquette 'soft is a good start, but you should always get a local to teach you how to play the game. Even if you are a big name in your home sprawl, every sprawl has different rules and modes of conduct. One thing that you must understand is that in Japan, the Yakuza are often considered to be part semi-legitimate businessmen, part protectors of the community. This means that there are plenty of times when the Yakuza, police, and corporations will join forces to find you if you step out of line. Understanding giri, face, honor, and nemawashi is essential if you wish to survive.

Let's give an example. In Seattle, one could take a job to kill a manager of a A or AA corp, do legwork to determine the target's schedule, and take him out. Then they would only need to worry about avoiding the heat long enough to get paid. In Japan, just dealing with the Yakuza side of things, you need to ask permission of the kumi in control of the area where the target lives, and the kumi that controls the place you're going to make the hit. If you gain their permission, then they will speak with contacts in the government and corporations involved to quietly drop the matter, and remove other obstacles in your path. If you do the hit without asking permission, then you run the risk that the manager you hit had some debt owed, whether fiscal or giri. Or perhaps you caused the kumi to lose face by attacking someone under their protection. In that case, the Yakuza will ask their affiliates to find you, and will also speak with the police and corporate security forces to help ease their way to you, because you did not show proper respect. The same is true on the government and corporate fronts, as well. It is complicated, but done correctly, it can make your run easier, or reduce the chances of reprisals.]<<<<<

--Kusanagi Motoko (02:51:22/10-29-74)

[Kot]

>>>>>[I'd still say that's one scum less. Code of 'honour' or not, they're still a mob, that dabbles in things that makes wetwork seem like a kid's cartoon scenario.]<<<<<

--NiSayer (03:31:09/10-29-74)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[You are a gaijin, yes? Your ignorance is understandable. Comparing the Yakuza to other syndicates is as foolish as comparing technomancers to other matrix users. Sure, they do some of the same things, but they go about things in different ways. In North America, the kumis have been forced to abandon some of the principles they held in order to survive in the face of crude upstarts. In Japan, and other ares that are almost wholly under Yakuza control, things are different. If a man rapes another man's daughter, in Japan, he does not go to the police. He goes to the Yakuza, and they give him justice. The Yakuza fights against petty thieves and fences, allowing people to sleep secure in their homes more easily. Yes, they do 'protection' rackets, same as anywhere, but when gaijin or upstarts target the areas under their protection, the Yakuza defends them. And they limit collateral damage as much as possible. You will not see the Yakuza spraying down a street with bullets to get a single man, even though they will not hesitate to slaughter a man's entire family to send a message. Indeed, the trading of hostages is often a means to ensure peace during negotiations when two kumis have a disagreement. So long as both clans behave, then the hostage is treated as an honored guest.

As I said, things are different in Seattle than they are in Japan.]<<<<<

--Kusanagi Motoko (09:08:07/10-29-74)

[Jian]

>>>>>[Different enough, that I do try to avoid Japan. The customs in general still very much elude me in practice.

Also, much as I wish not to be so entangled in temporal matters... Wolfgar, have you or anyone else need of a magus? Ill fate has apparently kept work tight.]<<<<<

--Delir Emet (09:51:21/10-29-74)

[cyclonus743]

>>>>>[They may be the purveyors of sweet juicy justice but i've also seen what goes on in their bunrakku parlors. Even in my line of work that drek give me the creepy crawlies.]<<<<<

--Belial (9:06:46/10-29-74)

[DWC]

>>>>>[The hypocrisy is really the common thread that ties all of organized crime together.    The mafia talk about their code of silence, yet the entire reason Witness Protection was created was to shelter mobsters who turned rat to reduce their sentences.  The gumi present themselves as purveyors of justice and protectors of the people, but if someone is committing an act of sexual violence against your little girl, it's probably happening because your local yakuza clan kidnapped her and is charging people for the opportunity to brutalize her.

The lie really serves two purposes.  One is to keep their victims compliant and loyal.  The other is to ease the burden on the conscience of the corrupt government employees who allow them to exist.  It's not a concept unique to "organized crime" either.  Both syndicates were case studies in my counter-insurgency course.  Offer up a lie, with the threat of violence to those who refuse to believe the lie, and trivial rewards for those who embrace the lie and you can victimize a people all you want.]<<<<<

--Vice (10:42:24/10-29-74)

[Kot]

>>>>>[O'Rly? I don't give a damn about your crap, go preach to people who're blind, stupid, or too afraid to speak up. I've been there, had some ties with the yaks. Then I had one little job that opened my eyes. It was the only time that I _almost_ enjoyed killing people... Almost. I've brained a high-level yak bastard who made tons of nuyen peddling child snufs. And his cronies who got him 'actors' according to his clients tastes. You see any honour and there? In torturing children for profit?
And FYI, Technomancers are just like other users. They just have different hardware and software. But they still have to follow the rules of the 'trix, just like anyone else.]<<<<<

--NiSayer (11:11:13/10-29-74)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ And I have worked for Yakuza gumi who have burned out with extreme prejudice entire clans for doing just that sort of thing.  You are very close to becoming what you loathe, NiSayer. ]<<<<<
          -- Hawatari (19:35:59/10-30-2074)

>>>>>[ Technomancers are like other users, and have to follow the rules of the Matrix? I got thirty-one friends who would laugh with great amounts of amusement at your ignorance.  Most of them would then ignore you, but there's a few who would be willing to take you gently by the hand and show you just exactly which rules they break on a regular basis... ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ourobors (19:45:00 / 10-30-2074)

[Kylen]

>>>>>[I know most people don't like organized crime in general, and I'm not going to pretend the Triad is clean. In the end though, there are some quite interesting facts: For one, when the American mob originally got broken up, people likely didn't notice, but violence in the streets almost tripled with in the week. Is organized crime still crime? Yes, but the people who do it right try to minimize the collateral done to people not involved in the dispute. It's what makes me sick to look at groups like the Halloweeners. I know the 1920s weren't all the trids make them up to be, but I've done my best to look into the statistics (which, mind you, I'm probably still ignorant. Crime stats and how to properly read them aren't my forte) and I think things were a lot cleaner back then.

Either way, I stay out of the Yaks path for completely different reasons other then not entirely knowing their ways and customs, given that I'm part of a different group all together. After all, I'm just a delivery boy, not a front line soldier or spy. Being Triad is complicated enough, and honorable enough, for me.

Oh, finally thinking of giving into some earlier suggestions: Can anyone suggest a reliable stun gun? Previous attempts to extend the range of my electric strikes continue to fail, so I figure I might as well get at least one, just in case.]<<<<<
     -- Card (18:40:00/10-30-12)

[DWC]

>>>>>[The Defiance packs the biggest capacitors in its darts, but I prefer a Lightfire 70 loaded with Stick and Shock.  It let me cash in on 15 years of muscle memory, along with better range, and the option to take the kid gloves off with a quick admin.

As for the crime statistics, they're meaningless.  Remember that the people tracking them are being paid off, and the people who are filing the reports are being strong armed.  A lot of things don't get reported and a lot of the reported crimes just go away.  The numbers get cut at both ends to build that perception that things are better as the personal kingdom of whatever filthy ethnic goon squad has claimed dominion over the poor bastards who live there.  It's all part of making the lie easier to believe.  It even falls under the umbrella of giving the local politicians a lie to sell to the voters, in exchange for more freedom to victimize the people they sell themselves as protecting.

You keep telling yourself that you're doing the right thing if it helps you sleep at night.  I'll sleep at night knowing that retirement means I'm not a parasite anymore.]<<<<<

--Vice (11:20:59/10-31-74)

[Crunch]

>>>>>[Organized crime of whatever stripe is probably less likely to negatively impact the average citizen than your local Lone Star goon. To the Mob the everyday cit is either a customer or a non entity. Organized crime messes with other criminals and sells to the man on the street. Unless they're already involved with the Mob voluntarily, the chances that a cit will have someone in my old job break their legs is slim to none. Bad for business.]<<<<<
     -- Mr. Fabulous (11:05:28/10-30-74)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Mr. Fabulous is correct. All the established syndicates, to varying degrees, try to keep collateral damage down. It is bad for business, and invites corporate and police reprisals. Random violence and street crime increases pressure on the organized players, which is why the Yakuza and other syndicates crack down on them when they operate in their neighborhoods. The same can not be said for upstart organizations like the Seoulpa Rings or the Koshari, or the various gangs that infest the sprawls. The Yakuza are businessmen. They just happen to be businessmen who sometimes deal in unpleasant areas of the market.

Wyrm Ouroboros is also correct, in that the typical rules of the matrix do not necessarily apply to Technomancers. But this works both ways. Just as there are things a technomancer can do that a hacker cannot, there are things that a hacker can do, that a technomancer cannot, at least, not without investing a great deal of time and energy unlocking the secrets of the Resonance.

Card, I would also suggest getting a regular gun with Stick'n'Shock ammo. You get better range, as Vice said, and you have the ability to switch to something with better kick, if you need to. I would suggest a nice shotgun, though. The sight of a shotgun pointed at a person's head tends to make them quite a bit more cooperative than seeing a little taser.

Vice, anyone who works the shadows is a parasite, in one way or another. There is ugliness everywhere. We get paid to lie, cheat, steal, and murder on a regular basis. Sometimes you are hired to run interference so that a drug shipment can get past a checkpoint. Sometimes you are taking down one group of criminals to serve another group of criminals. And sometimes you ruin a person's life and career, so that the project he is working on will be delayed by two months, so the competition can get to market first. Until you retire from the shadows entirely, you will be a parasite. But the shadows are not the only place that harbors parasites. The most dangerous ones exist in the light.]<<<<<

--Kusanagi Motoko (01:58:23/10-31-74)

[Kot]

>>>>>[@Ouroboros: There's a little sprite in my node, choking with laughter after reading your post. I'll explain: Before people discovered Magic, the rules that govern Mana and the Astral were already there. People just didn't know them. Then some people appeared who at least second-guessed them, and became Magicians and Shamans. But they had a long way to go, to catch up to Dragons and other entities that knew of Magic already. The same can be said about Technomancers, and Hackers. The Technomancers had to learn their art from scratch, but along the way they found things, that no Hacker could know. Because they had access to that knowledge, they gained the upper hand, and access to things like Sprites, Resonance Realms and so on. But even those things don't break the rules. They work in a way that seems to, but only if you don't know the rules well enough. I do, for reasons related to the sprite I mentioned earlier. Bottom line: If you pack a good soft and hardware, you can take any technomancer on. With less risk than he takes. The same goes for a trained magician of lesser skill, who can use his knowledge and tools of the trade to teach the young wizganger his place, despite that the wizganger has twice as much mojo to sling around.
It's the Dragon Gambit. Knowledge is Power. The vk's have more knowledge. It all comes to that.

On the topic of organized crime: The yak I've mentioned was high enough to be the one who was _supposed to_ deal with people like him. Instead he became one. This means their system is flawed. If your soft glitches on you, it means there are bugs in the code. You need to fix it. The yaks don't see the need. The same goes for the mob, vory, vikings, mafia, triads, and any others. They run on bad soft.]<<<<<

--NiSayer (02:21:03/10-31-74)

[Jian]

>>>>>[NiSayer, statements like that display an evident lack of knowledge about magic.

Furthermore, what Motoko said should not be forgotten. Consider the nature of the work we do, and the repercussions that result. It is work that involves death, theft or other unpleasant activities - that often cause harm to innocents in the process. A sad thing, but not something you thought of the last time you delivered a hazardous bioweapon to a Shiawase facility. After all, on an intrinsic level, we don't really question what's in the package.

It's something I admit to considering more than most, since the daevas I call will tend to bring it up when possible.]<<<<<
     -- Delir Emet (11:22:23/10-31-74)

[Ympulse]

>>>>>[This discussion about Organized crime, while amusing, is ignoring something very key. No matter how they "do business" and carry themselves, they're all the same. They exist solely to make money without providing anything in return. "Protection" is just a manufactured necessity. I wonder what everyone's opinion would be if the discussion was about, say Tanamous. They operate much like the Yakuza, in my experiences. Except they deal with parts and not people.]<<<<<

--Emmas (11:05:53/10-31-74)