[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Point taken, Hawatari. We'll be careful, don't worry.

And yes, Tokolosh, it should be an interesting match. Especially since we've both seen the other in action, and fought side by side before. Personally, I give it even odds in a fair fight, with a slight edge to Xerena. Assuming we both summon spirits, it'll be one against two (or more). Spirit and spell selection will be the key to the fight, I think. And I'm willing to bet we both have tricks we haven't shown eachother yet.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (07:44:22/01-12-75)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ Who is worried?  Amused.  Wishing I could watch you two realtime. Wishing, in a way, that I could be there, but knowing it's better for us all that I'm not. You are, after all, placing yourselves in what I would consider my sort of court.  Self-identified as an athlete as I am, I tend to get considerable grief and arrogance from warrior sorts.  To think of two whom I know to be warriors putting themselves into what is after all an athletic contest -and needing to keep a tight rein on what their instincts and totems are urging them to ... it's somewhat entertaining, is all. ]<<<<<
          -- Hawatari (01:23:45/01-13-2075)

[Kylen]

>>>>>[If you guys get a recording you wouldn't mind sharing, I wouldn't mind taking a look at this fight. For some of the same reasons as Hawatari, and for other reasons pertaining to my current life choices, primarily my "Shall not kill unless no other option" one. Watching some combatants who are normally...I guess I could say driven, given the totems, to kill in battle holding back would make for some interesting meditation material.

Speaking of fights, if anyone is up for a new sparing partner in Seattle, I REALLY need to get out of my comfort zone and fight someone NOT from the same dojo as me. Non-lethal of course, but I figured I'd try to at least offer up.]<<<<<

     -- Card (1:25:45/01-13-75)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[It is true that there is a difference between sparring in training and an exhibition like this. I'll admit, though, that it is hard to find someone to train with, even with blunt weapons, because if they aren't a good enough partner to make me stretch my limits, then there's no point to it, but when I'm stretching my limits, it is hard to keep from getting serious. If I do that, then the frenzy takes me, and I have to find a new training partner. A real fight is much better for training, one of the reasons I hang out in Redmond now and then.

To date, I've only been in a few fights where I felt truly outmatched, and only the help of others kept me breathing to see the morning. Which isn't to say I've only been in serious danger a few times. There's plenty of times I was in a bad situation, and any practical person would betting the house on me dying, but I just couldn't bring myself to believe it. Always thought that there was a way, somehow, to win. Part of the problem is that those kinds of experiences build on eachother, and it takes more and more to make you feel that kind of fear. When you've stared a dragon in the eye from under a meter away as said dragon is doing his best to turn you into lunch, nothing the Barrens has can give you the same feeling that you are well and truly fragged. I'm still not sure how I survived some of those fights. Even I am not arrogant enough to say that I'm a match for even a 'normal' dragon. One-on-one, I'd be toast, easy. But with a lot of luck, and the help of my team, I managed to survive. Just don't ask me how. Seriously, I don't remember too much from those fights. I just remember throwing myself open to Shark and the spirit riding me, and giving in to the frenzy completely, and the next thing I know, the fight's over.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (07:53:22/01-13-75)

[Keita]

>>>>>[ It is actually a quite common misconception that those of us who follow wolf is driven to kill. That isn't the case. When we hunt, then yes, we will do what it takes, and we will not back down. But when we're not hunting...we play. In fights for dominance, things rarely go so far as death. Certainly not when we play. Miri is not prey, and as such, there will be no instinct in me to go farther than either his or my submission. We're been around long enough, lived with our totems long enough, to know when things go too far. No doubt we'll be bruised, and quite possibly drained. Of course, neither of us will back down, so we'll see. Like Miri said, it'll come down to what we have up our sleeves.

Miri, if we're going to do this, we might s well go all out and give your mother's guests the best show we can.

Card...we'll see what we can do. It'll be up to Miri and whether his mother allows it. There might be security issues and whatnot. And if you need a sparring partner, I'll be willing to take you on once a week. I'm not formally trained as a martial artist, but I've picked up enough over the years to develop a style of my own. Wolf has fewer problems with holding back since we're essentially pack creatures. Those who are pack have nothing to fear from us. The only wolf you need ever fear is the lone wolf.

As for the fight with the dragon...I remember. All too well. We had a good team, and the skills needed. That is how we survived. ]<<<<<
          -- Madrecita (08:07:45/01-13-2075)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ Card, you might consider the various Schooling Houses - there's two in Seattle that I know of, one of them (Vigilant Iron) just on the edge of Redmond - or the Alert Peace dojo in Bitter Lake, north end of Downtown.  If you opt for the latter, tell the dojo-master, Isamu, that I sent you his way.  He might go a bit more rough on you, but you can bet you'll get your money's worth.  And I drop in when I'm in town too, so that's an added bonus. ]<<<<<
          -- Hawatari (10:10:10/01-13-2075)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[A dojo is all well and good, but there isn't any training quite like getting in a real fight. You really want a challenge, go out to a little dive bar in Redmond called Aces and pick a fight. The regulars are scum, for the most part, but even untrained foes can be dangerous in groups. Taking on the entire bar is a good challenge for a fighter. While dealing with multiple foes is tricky, it helps build situational awareness in a way that sparring one on one can't. In a real fight, it isn't always the most skilled or most powerful that walks away with the win, but the one who makes best use of the terrain and is able to adapt to the situation. There are plenty of champion martial artists who can't hold their own in a real fight because they are too busy using forms and katas that they didn't pay attention to the guy with a pool cue behind them.

Anyways, back on Mother's estate now. I'll be staying here until after the party. And Mother has agreed to record the bout, so I'll probably post the trid after the party.

And yeah, Xerena, that fight was something else. I had my simrig recording everything, so I've got the normal five senses, but the emotional and other such tracks get a bit odd when the person being recorded is possessed, which makes it seem slightly unreal when experiencing the playback. But that was the first fight in a while that I actually blanked out in the middle of. Only happens in the really tough fights. Normally I try to keep a sense of self even in the Frenzy, but when the opponent is strong enough, I can't hold back like that.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (11:52:22/01-14-75)

[All4BigGuns]

>>>>>[Training against a less skilled partner, could still help with improving, but it definitely wouldn't be as quick. I'd offer to be a training partner for you, but I don't practice with my sword enough, concentrating more on maintaining my marksmanship, so you'd probably mop the floor with me.]<<<<<

--Predator (12:30:45/01-14-2075)

[Crunch]

>>>>>[Your mileage may vary, but I never learn faster than when I'm teaching. When I'm "off duty" I spend a lot of time teaching the Amateur classes for Mega Heavyweights down at the local gym. Dealing with someone who doesn't know what they're doing, or only sort of knows, can keep you from falling into the trap of expecting the responses of a formally trained fighter. I could spar with Ali for days and it wouldn't actually teach me very much about how Billy Bob the Humanis goon behaves in a fight. ]<<<<<

--Mr. Fabulous (15:01:15/01-14-2075)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Basically what I was saying, Fabulous. When you train solely against martial artists, you don't expect someone to come at you with a broken bottle, or to pull a gun in the middle of a brawl. You need actual fights to learn how to deal with that. Training and experience are the two keys, and they're quite different. But a trained fighter with experience is the most dangerous of all. Especially when the learn how to adapt their training to the unexpected. A trained fighter lacks the awareness of combat outside a dojo. An experienced fighter lacks the discipline that training provides. But when you have both, and then learn to improvise in the midst of combat, you become capable of doing incredible things.

Plus, if you have the skill, a brawl can be a good way to win respect with the local gangs. And if you don't understand why you might want a gang member as a contact, picture being able to have a friend you can call for an instant distraction for law enforcement. Fifty Ancients start cruising through Downtown, and whether they start causing problems or not, the Knights are going to be quite distracted, yeah? And if your escape route just happens to intersect with their 'parade', then it can be a good way to shake a tail.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (16:21:22/01-14-75)

[Crunch]

>>>>>[Yeah, but it's worth noting that Brawls are unpredictable. Once you have half a dozen or so people involved in a combat situation even the savvyist fighter can get blindsided, or at least put in a situation where the killing blow you've been avoiding is the one you need to use not to get creamed. Plus you never know when someone will escalate the conflict beyond the "making friends" level. This is especially true if you're on the gangs home turf. And of course the gangs home turf is where you get the most mileage out of these kind of rep enhancing tricks.

One thing I've had success with is playing on tradition pride. I'm a boxer, a very good one, and a lot of the eastern traditions will sneer down their nose at boxing to the point that they'll accept a more formal match to prove the superiority of Highfalutin-Fu over poor little boxing. Almost every gang these days has some ass hat who got themselves a Black Belt at Mr Miyagi's Virtual Dojo or Karate R Us. Engage their pride and then beat them without making them look stupid and you can have a friend for life. Not least because by letting them look good in the fight will boost their rep as long as you look like the toughest guy on the planet later on.

Hell, one of the groups I work out with at the gym are some kids from the local branch of the Trogs. The toughest half of the gangers on my street think of me as their trainer and know that I can paste their asses. Makes a heck of a security system.]<<<<<

--Mr Fabulous (15:53:37/01-14-75)

[Kylen]

>>>>>[I guess my part time work at the bar will end up being good for me then. Plenty of brawls on Friday nights. Nearly caught a bottle to the head. Good fight, that was.

Part of the reason I wanted to see the recording was to get a good idea on the kind of people I would normally face once/if I get really hard core into running. Plus, it's never a bad idea to have even a small idea of what potential running partners can do.  Also, I just like seeing a good old fashion demonstration sometimes.

Pred, I'll always be up for helping you brush up on melee. Can't really say I can teach you any blade work, but it'd be good experience for both of us.]<<<<<

     -- Card (19:15:30/1-14-75)

[All4BigGuns]

>>>>>[Been a while since I've been in a bar brawl. Maybe I should take my fiancee to a Redmond bar and see how he reacts]<<<<<

--Predator (23:03:02/01-14-2075)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ ... if you follow Iceblade's advice, you will end up dead.
          Certainly you can beat up one guy.  Or three.  Or six.  If you pick a fight - deliberately start a brawl with the entire bar as your chosen target - no matter your street savvy, martial skill, and rough-and-tumble brawling all rolled into one, you will lose.  You cannot know if the fist in your back is going to have a shock glove on, or the swinging club that you are trying to turn into a glancing blow is a stun baton.  Or if someone not even involved in the fight, whether patron or tender, is simply going to be sick and tired of idiots who don't belong there picking a brawl in the only watering hole he can reach on foot, draw, and patiently put a bullet through your pre-frontal.  It does not matter your martial skill.  It does not matter your situational awareness.  Unless your skull is so thick you can bounce a bullet from a heavy pistol or a shotgun from your head, you will drop.
          And then you will die.
          And then your corpse will be looted.  And maybe sold, I do not know.
          People who claim to have learned to fight in such a manner are storytellers and liars; do not believe them.  Even powerful trolls who are martial artists and brawlers (and I have known one or three) do not do this for exactly the reason I have stated.  Tasers and other similar weapons are not so expensive that someone who owns a bar is not going to possess them as insurance against idiots such as someone looking to fight, and looking like he or she might get away with it.
          If you desire to practice 'street rules', all you have to do is ask.  Alert Peace holds two-hour sessions three evenings a week for those who desire instruction and practice using 'street rules'; Isamu's advanced students, a number of which are adepts of various ability, are frequent attendees.  You will find a sufficient workout there, without the foolishness of a lawless bar-brawl that will see you end up floating in the Sound with twelve ounces of lead occupying your grey-matter space. ]<<<<<
          -- Hawatari (11:51:48/01-14-2075)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Well, to be fair, as a possession mage with a spirit ready to go before the fight, I might be cheating a little bit. However, even when you issue a challenge to the bar, there's a rhythm to a fight. Even with people huddled around you, they can't fight effectively all at once, so you'll usually be dealing with 2-3 people at the same time, with others switching in. Your most likely weapons will be pool cues and broken bottles, with the odd knife thrown in. A stun baton might be used to end a fight, but in a dive bar the bartender's more likely to reach under the counter for a shotgun and let off a round to quiet people down if too much property ends up being destroyed. And ranged attacks (tasers included) are difficult to use in a melee, especially with multiple combatants. That kind of tactic also usually isn't in the playbook of people at Aces. You're more likely to see a Predator than a taser. But unless you start maiming people, then guns don't normally come out. And when guns come out, the fight typically ends then and there, since that's when the bartender usually steps in. A fight can be good for business (in places like Aces, it is practically the entire entertainment), but murders bring the wrong kind of attention. Do your research first, and work your way up to things like that. Yes, in some bars they'll kill you and sell your body for parts for starting trouble. But those aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones where there's a drunken brawl every night, and people come just so they can get involved with the night's fight(s).]<<<<<

--Iceblade (08:22:22/01-15-75)