[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[I agree with Siouxsie if you make a promise you keep it, no excuses. People that fail to do that are just scum, the word of someone should be worth something. I for one i don't like Mojo, had a bad run with it a few years back, and im not even a true Shadowrunner.]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (08:25:06/10-04-2075)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ Pipe down, kid.  Despite Smiley being an A-1-A prick and a half, he's essentially correct - it is very difficult to tell everyone something that they know isn't true.  Anyone with a smidgent of a knack for data analysis could see that the end of Euphoria's final sim, Against the Hive Masters, wasn't simulated.  People with half an ounce of paranoia about the likelihood of complete peace between all were looking deep into the UB's background; I know I started after the Grodin's Tavern fire, when Zeb Wanderly got it in the neck, after he and Rick Davitt did a deep background investigation into the UB - and those who were still human, still being inducted, still at the fringes of the cult , were diving into the 'Trix, hiring people to put together S&D programs to pickle the Wanderly/Davitt report.  A lot of people, influential people, were part of the UB and worked on burying stuff that might show them up to be bad.
          So really, it's a question of who do you trust, who you can work with, and who do you tell about the weird shit you've discovered or figured out. Next time, you try -- maybe you'll have better luck. ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ouroboros (22:45:00/10-4-2075)

[All4BigGuns]

>>>>>[Keeping your promises is all well and good. Hell, I try to keep them if possible, but you have to remember that sometimes things aren't that simple. You have to weigh the repercussions of breaking the promise against the repercussions should you keep it.]<<<<<
     -- Predator (21:57:39/10-04-2075)

[Silence]

>>>>>[I was AGREEING with him, Wyrm.  The not a word bit was about something completely unrelated.  Which I will not say a fraggin' word about beyond if anyone ever laugh at how dangerous a bunch of teenyboppers can be, I'll do something amusing to them.]<<<<<
     --Siouxsie(22:25:38/10-04-75)

>>>>>[I don't know, I thought you looked good as a member of a boy band.]<<<<<
     --Sanctity Rose(10:27:16/10-04-75)

>>>>>[I will shoot you when I get back to Seattle.]<<<<<
     --Siouxsie(10:30:00/10-04-75)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ You may have been agreeing with Smiley, kid, but it's me you were yelling at.  You wanna know who the most powerful people in the world are, the people you really don't want to piss off??  It isn't the Great Dragons, it isn't the supposedly-immortal elves, it isn't the guy with the fifty billion nuyen, the mansion, the yacht, and the five hundred combat-trained ass-kickers, it isn't the mob boss or the powerful mage.
          It's the guy who controls the information.  Worse, it's the one who knows how information works.
          Piss off a guy like me and your little-shit local-boy papa-san mentor and his granola-eating tree-hugging druid-wannabe krewe are going to find themselves in the middle of a whole shitstorm. Today that guy like me will use the 'Trix to definitively and technically locate that back-to-nature almost-not-toxic grove of trees, and plant in three different megacorporations a backdated report talking about a rich rare-earth mineral deposit located right there.  Tomorrow, that guy like me will insert your face and theirs into the local security corporations' 'wanted for X, Y, and Z' lists, along with fourteen months' worth of 'related violence' backstory.  The next day, that guy like me will link a recent comparatively-anonymous high-profile violent crime to your little group, and passing along to several snitches bits and pieces designed to back up the story, deliberately with enough conflict of information to make it believable.  (For those following along at home, the most-believed percentage of conflct-of-information currently rests at just about 18%.)
          Finally, that guy like me locates several mid-level corporate managers in the heavy industry 'Mineral Resource' section of their company who have influential-enough contacts in their corporations' respective security arm, and inserts into their personal assistant's 'important information to give the boss' data dump the aforementioned information.  And then he sits back to watch three or more corporations roll in on that grove loaded for bear, shooting first and not caring enough about the answers to bother even asking questions of the corpses.  After all, you're all well-armed-and-highly-dangerous violently-inclined criminals who happen to be sitting on the fourth-richest rare-earth-minerals strike on the North American continent, aren't you?
          So stop yelling at that guy like me, Siouxie. He doesn't need to shoot you - he just has to stay out of your way and vector Knight Errant in on your ass. ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ouroboros (01:30:00/10-8-2075)

[Wolfboy]

>>>>>[Alright, why doesnt everyone just take a deep breath and calm down. Siouxsie, Wyrm is right you did yell at him, and Smiley is right, that Wyrm probably did and no one beleived him. I know from the time my team hit a camp Hope that I didnt want to believe it and I saw it with my own two eyes. Thought that maybe if we just left them alone they would do the same. No, once they started killing our people, my girlfriend, we knew things had gone to pot. Then it was time for this wolf to hunt, and i still couldnt wrap my head around the whole situation cleanly. It took months of tracking the bastards to and in Chicago to really wrap my brain around it.

Wyrm, Siousies yell was one of shock, and then he mistook what you said. IT Happens! He's also new and a little excitable so cut him some slack and dont go all "Dont frag off the info broker" because believe me, info brokers are not invincible, and can be set up just as easily as you could probably set Siouxsie up.]<<<<<

Wolfgar (09:42:38/10-08-75)

[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[Ok, trixters just to avoid nuclear warfare out of a discussion in the trix, how about if i present you all with what i think is a challenge? You see ive been trying to understand a bit of how mojo works, and by the first response i got i think im really wrong in my concepts... Of course i admid Trid movies and the news ain't the best source to be looking around, but the thing is im looking for an explanation and im no runner, hell i found this place by sheer luck, but the thing is Hypothethicly speaking of course: Is it posible to Blow up a Bus full of people with enough strenght to make it land on its backside leaving no evidence behind?]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (10:48:23/08-10-2075)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Blow up how? Like using an explosion of some sort to flip the bus, or using wind to blow it into the air, or what? Regardless, to be able to lift and throw a bus would require substantial force, which means it would be all but impossible to do without leaving some kind of signature. However, signatures can be erased, if you take the time to do so, and certain initiates are able to reduce the amount of time their signatures remain behind to begin with. If no one assensed the area within the first hour or so, it would be easily possible for a magician of a certain degree of skill and power to take out a bus and erase his signature before someone spotted it. Of course, to a mundane, there would be no traces, other than other affects from the spells used (fire, etc.). They would have to be extraordinarily powerful to do that and be able to get away without damage.

For the most part, take everything you ever learned about magic from the trids, and throw it out the window. A mage cannot sling spells all day long without falling flat on his face due to exhaustion, unless they are the kinds of spells that would be hard pressed to rip paper, much less knock a man off his feet. To use an analogy a mundane would understand, think about running. Now picture how tired you get after running a mile without stopping. Compress all that fatigue into an instant, and that is what it is like slinging a relatively minor spell, or summoning a relatively low force spirit. When you start talking about higher force spirits or spells, then picture running a marathon at full speed without stopping, all compressed into a single moment. Now add that to any other wounds or fatigue you might have from combat, or any other sources.

There is also no such thing as teleportation magic, or resurrection magic, or any of those things. Don't get me wrong, researchers are constantly trying to figure out some way to do that, but as of right now, there is no way to do these things.

Magic does not need incantations or gestures, or items, or any of those things. Many mages use these things as tools to focus their Talent, but most mages do not HAVE to use these things.

Anyone who tells you that they can make you a mage is lying to you. If you're lucky, they're just a con artist looking to get your nuyen, and the pills they give you are just placebos. If you're not lucky, you've just got a tempo addiction, or you've been tricked into making a pact with a spirit that may or may not be friendly to you, or you've been infected with HMHVV. If you're really unlucky, you'll wake up on an altar, just as the bug spirit they've summoned eats your soul to use you like a rigger jumped into a drone, except far more permanent.

Anyone telling you that they have an 'amulet' or anything else that will protect mundanes from spells is lying to you. Usually, they just look mystical, but don't do crap. Sometimes, there's a spirit in it temporarily to make use of counterspelling for a while. And sometimes, it is something much much worse.

Magic follows rules. These rules change slightly depending on the mage's tradition and beliefs, but they mainly stay the same, regardless of the mage. At least when you're talking about metahumans. Spirits and dragons apparently see and use magic in different ways from us, and they don't like teaching those ways to mortals. But if you're ever in a fight with a dragon, how they channel mana isn't going to be your first concern. And if you ever meet a dragon and aren't in a fight with them, asking them those questions is a good way to start one. In other words, don't. But for us mortals, magic has certain predictable effects, which is why a shaman can recognize the kinds of magic a hermetic or a druid or a shinto miko or a vodoo priest use, even if the formulas seem strange to them, and that's why a mage can defend against another mage's powers, even if they are different traditions.]<<<<<

--Iceblade (12:28:23/10-08-75)

[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[Ok, so it is possible. Not a feat to be done by the rank and file i guess... But even so the LS has their own Mojo detectives right? To give in some more Hipothethical details, lets say that the bus was lifted, no fire, more like the hand of god turning it upside down, that the emergency services arrived at an impressive 20 minutes after the fraggin life changin event, and that the LS did not arrive until 45 minutes after the event, would that be time enough for a Powerfull Mojo Slinger to erase his... Signature?]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (13:36:23/08-10-2075)

[Mirikon]

>>>>>[Sounds more like a levitate spell than 'blowing up'. Still, it would have to be a very strong spell to lift a whole bus. And spirits would have been seen if they were there to lift it. Any mage capable of performing the feat (assuming they were still conscious at the end of it) could have erased the signatures before then, yes. There's always the off chance that it was a ritual spell taking effect, which would make it easier to fuel, but still, not something most people would bother with, when it is much simpler to just create a fireball in the middle of the road, or in the cabin of the bus, if you were going with ritual magics. 'Hypothetically' what was the reason for hitting the bus?]<<<<<

--Iceblade (14:35:23/10-08-75)

[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[As this is an Hipothesis and nothing more, i have absolutly no clue, but things are odd, the huge delay on services medical and police is suspicious specially considering it was uptown chicago, so security was decent and services available. Even more and hipothethical list of passengers was obtained and no one single passenger seems to be extraordinary, not even fake SIN's, more even so because the Bus was the only thing hit, and on plain daylight of all things, and of course in this hipothethical stream of logic thinking and in 20 years no culprit has been found... Of course after the disaster at UB on 56' it would be hipothethicly imposible to keep investigating, even if you had some evidence obtained from LS. Of course all of this in hipothesis.]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (15:17:23/08-10-2075)

[Wolfboy]

>>>>>[Wait, 20 years ago, I think i know the incident you're talking about WC. If memory serves it was a straight up spirit that did that and actually all it did was roll the bus over sideways not "flip" it end for end. As my memory goes, an earth spirit partially manifested rolling the bus over and spinning it around before subsiding back into the ground.]<<<<<

--Wolfgar (17:12:18/10-08-75)

[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[Wolfgar, first of all this is a Hipothethical escenario... So it couldn't have happened, maybe some big coincidences with an event that happened on Chicago Uptown 20 years ago, before the disaster at the Universal Brotherhood and Bug Town crisis, but most certainly this hipothethically precise escenario about a upside down bus did not involved any partially manifested earth spirit,  just a very Random act that seems to fallow no logic more than the killing and cripling of inoccent bystanders. However if you do need help finding the culprit on that case coun't me in, im not a runner as ive said a million times but i do have some skills searching and investigating in the trix, not hi level good like skills but some pretty decent skills.]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (23:24:23/08-10-2075)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

>>>>>[ First, Wolfgar, don't ever tell me to calm down.  That's a guaranteed way to both get on my bad side and most of the time make me 'not calm'.  If I'm pissed off, it's for a good reason; most of the time assholes like you think I'm pissed off, though, I'm not.  Second, no verbal slack cut for n00bs of any sort - because the rest of the universe sure as hell isn't going to cut them any.  If they can't handle getting grabbed by the ear and told what's going to happen to them if they go too far, how the frag do you think they're going to survive any decent amount of time?
          Last but by no means least, don't ever confuse a decker with a fragging 'info broker' - and don't insult me by calling me one.  Info brokers are the poor cousins of the hacker world, barely a step ahead of a script kiddie, making a living by listening at keyholes.  Have I been set up before?  Yes.  Could I be set up again??  Yes.  Do I take steps to make sure that my ass doesn't get put in the morgue if I am?  Hell yes. And any decker worth the electrons does, too, so you blowing away some slot of an info broker might work on a decker - but if it does, you can be sure your ass is going to wind up right next to his within the next couple of days.
          Looks like Siouxsie isn't the only one who needs a reminder not to frag with the decker. ]<<<<<
          -- The Wyrm Ouroboros (11:00:00/10-10-2075)

[WrongConcept]

>>>>>[The Wyrm Ouroboros, Im a N00B in all of the league, i had the bad luck to learn the basics in University, so i do know how to script with a Comm, but ive never really understood decks, and by what ive seen its not really worth the heavy nuyen one spends on it. Of course i have never got to play with the big boys, the most dangerous hack on a facility i protected involved a disgruntled employee with old password that the previous administrator "forgot" to delete, and phishing and other types of attemps low thread attemps, as i said, low level. But its really necessary the use of a Deck? because im pretty comfortable with my Comm and my Cold Sim. Any advice you could share with me?]<<<<<
     -- WrongConcept (11:58:23/10-10-2075)