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Clutch of dragons metapolots

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Zunimancer

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« Reply #120 on: <09-16-12/0935:59> »
Thanks. Now I have one more reason to attend such meetings with dragons only over the matrix.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #121 on: <09-16-12/1558:15> »
Just occurred to me: something that would shake things up even more, and serve as a follow-up to CoD - a statement from Sirrurg intended as both an answer to Hestaby's UN address and an indictment of Aztlan, and probably more.

A shame such a thing would be (as far as we readers/players can tell) SO out of character for him. And that's ignoring the authentication issues that would exist.


I think he made a pretty clear statement when he killed a couple thousand people in Albuquerque.

lurkeroutthere

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« Reply #122 on: <09-16-12/1637:12> »
Consider that the other Cyberpunk game out there, Cyberpunk, had a 100% technological progression...and ended up so strange that it did not even resemble Cyberpunk anymore. Heck, hacking is not even a part of the rules in the most recent version(or, at least, that I could see).  Shadowrun, at least, tries to keep the Cyberpunk side of things going. Frankly, what bothers me more is that it is a Demo Agent speaking badly about the game's progression. Aren't they the people who are
supposed to trying to persuade new people to join? I know that, now, if I ever knew he was the Agent running something at a Con, I would NOT play at his table, because he hates my types of characters(He hates the magical storylines, so he obviously hates magic users, and I like magic characters). I would question his objectivity as a GM were I to bring the types of characters I like to play.   

I am always bemused why my CDT Agent status is such a lightning rod for some people, you too can be a CDT agent, all you have to be willing to do is give of your time to run Shadowrun for others at public venues. That doesn't for some reason invalidate my essential right as a customer to be non plus-ed with the way things are going either in a book or the line. As a freelancer, or more apt a would be freelancer I have been asked to mostly keep my opinions somewhat low key. Which for the record I mostly do, even if people don't agree with them when I do voice them. If they choose to read further into my opinions then is really intended or get bent out of shape over the that is not my problem. While there is the possibility I might need to communicate better on the balance it's a big bag of not my problem. If my freelancer status, or my CDT status were tomorrow made contingent of withholding my positions entirely I would with regret wash my hands of both. Because quite frankly I'm an opinionated guy, I made a decisions long ago, in regards to issues of far more serious import then this, that only I had the moral authority to constrain my voice.

But I will clarify, my issue is not with magic or even magic related plots. My issue is rather then being a game about magics return to the world and how that affected things coupled with the world own accelerating level of high tech development. But ultimately to me at least Shadowrun is a game about Shadowrunners and the shadows they dwell in people operating on the fringes of this wonderful dystopic or post dystopic future world. That's not to say that Dragon's and their machinations shouldn't be a part of that or even that Earthdawn elements can't cross over. What I do have issue with is this concept that dragons or dragon affected people are the only ones that can move the plot. That the only way to affect the world is to be bequeathed something in a dragons will or be someone around from the fourth age. I don't have a problem with magic, dragons, or anything else. I have issues with beings not being subtle. I have issues with Dragons not having to hide their hand a bit. That's what the current plot lacks, draconic subtlety. Because honestly draconic magic and raw dragon physicality shouldn't be as big of an ace as people play it out to be, and by now the nations of the world should have draconic counters under lock and key ready to go even if that method is "Glass the area with stand off munitions".

Basically long story short probably be actually a bit scared of the younger races, sure individually they are more powerful and magically they are pretty pants but there are just so damn many of these soft squishy meta-humans, and even more of their toys. There's this conceit that the only thing humanity has to combat dragons is the magic bullet manatech of the week or spawm in armor with guns, when literally that doesn't even scratch the surface of literally awe inspiring destructive power we can project even today with conventional arms.

TLDR: I believe if you get into a stand up fight with a AA or above mega, or especially a AAA mega you probably aught to be vaporized. The same goes if your a runner team or a multi-ton fire breathing lizard, and I'm a little disappointed that so many of the plots right now involve fourth world hold overs, as if no one born in the sixth world can do anything without an immortal elf or a dragon secretly being behind it.
« Last Edit: <09-17-12/0248:42> by lurkeroutthere »
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #123 on: <09-16-12/1808:48> »
Just because CMPunk's been defending his belt for months, don't think that other guys have given up hope of winning the battle royal. Sometimes, it's a matter of waiting for the right time.

Lots of things still to come on the Civil War, I'd think.

If nothing else, you have to wonder what getting support from a fellow dragon costs. What's Masaru getting for standing beside Hestaby, for instance? Is Arleesh using Lofwyr to get close to Lung? What price is Aden going to pull from Lofwyr? What will Ghostwalker charge for joining one side or the other?

Most importantly, how will this effect Shadowrunners?

I'm anxiously looking forward. :)

DarkLloyd

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« Reply #124 on: <09-17-12/0049:05> »
:SNIP:
Basically long story short probably be actually a bit scared of the younger races, sure individually they are more powerful and magically they are pretty pants but there are just so damn many of these soft squishy meta-humans, and even more of their toys. There's this conceit that the only thing humanity has to combat dragons is the magic bullet manatech of the week or spawm in armor with guns, when literally that doesn't even scratch the surface of literally awe inspiring destructive power we can project even today with conventional arms.
:SNIP:

I Completly agree with you on this one. And have stated that very thing here before. There just aren't enough Dragons greats/lessers/dracoforms/drakes to survive if humanity decided to snuff them all because they finally pushed too hard.
And that's why Sirrug has to die. And die by a consolidated front of the other greats.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #125 on: <09-17-12/0217:45> »
What I do have issue with is this concept that dragons or dragon affected people are the only ones that can move the plot. That the only way to affect the world is to be bequethed something in a dragons will or be someone around from the fourth age. I don't have a problem with magic, dragons, or anything else. I have issues with beings not being subtle. I have issues with Dragons not having to hide their hand a bit. That's what the current plot lacks, draconic subtlety. Because honestly draconic magic and raw dragon physicality shouldn't be as big of an ace as people play it out to be, and by now the nations of the world should have draconic counters under lock and key ready to go even if that method is "Glass the area with stand off munitions".

<clip>

TLDR: I believe if you get into a stand up fight with a AA or above mega, or especially a AAA mega you probably aught to be vaporized. The same goes if your a runner team or a multi-ton fire breathing lizard, and I'm a little disappointed that so many of the plots right now involve fourth world hold overs, as if no one born in the sixth world can do anything without an immortal elf or a dragon secretly being behind it.

And this is basically correct.  However.

A draconic attack - especially if you're talking about a Great - can take place, start to finish, in a couple of hours, perhaps only in minutes.  Most of your anti-dragon options take that most valuable of things, time, to implement - not only because of the wrangling of and for authorization, but also for the simple mathematical and physical facts of 'It takes X item Y time to make it from point A to point B before it can execute a terminal attack maneuver on Target Q.'  Do Thor shots have that problem?  No, but Thor shots have a different issue implied.

It is implied that authorization for something like a Thor strike is under Corporate Court jurisdiction - which means that letting one loose without it could/would endanger your very existence as a corporation.  Each member of the corporate court is going to act in their corporation's best interests; taking Danchekker out (the only use of a Thor shot that I know about) was in every corporation's interests.  Using a Thor strike to take out a Great Dragon committing a military strike against the people who executed (possibly falsely) one of the highly limited population of his people is going to run into a large number of blocks, the first one being that one big corporation with the Great Dragon at the helm - and the other ones being every megacorp who has a beef with Aztechnology.  (Remember that the genetic-predisposition spell came only at the very end of Sirrurg's hours-long attack.)  Could Aztlan have nuked him before that?  Yes, but you're also talking about a) using a weapon with questionable efficacy and b) killing a HELL of a lot of your own people to get him, which would NOT have played well.  Sirrurg should have left well enough alone with the military base.

Anyhow.  Take these things along with the fact that a) dragons tend to stick together against metahuman 'jurisdiction' (witness the current morass), and b) THE largest corporation is run by the de facto chief dragon, and c) that plenty of other corporate might is, with or without metahuman knowledge, leashed to dragons and their interests, what do you have?  You have a small group of personally, economically, militarily, and politically powerful individuals willing to work together if, all of a sudden, the world wants to go to war with them.

Yes, they're having internal issues right now; yes, a lot of their typical subtlety has gone by the wayside as they are facing off with each other in displays of magic, might, and influence.  Yes, you don't like that that's true, but that's what happen when the fecal matter strikes the spinning turbine; shit goes everywhere.  But see, draconic magic and raw dragon physicality are not the only pieces on the board.  They may be the only pieces you're paying attention to, but that doesn't make the other pieces go away.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #126 on: <09-17-12/0938:13> »
Oh yes, there's a *ton* of politics that can be involved (And you're right about the CC authorizing the deployment of space-based weaponry. I'm not sure if it's a simple majority or a two-thirds majority, but if it isn't authorized, you have bigger problems than a dragon chewing on your building.) ... Aztechnology isn't exactly a beloved company, and if there's a chance for them to get egged and other corps to make money, they don't really have a problem going, "Gosh. A dragon you say? Set fire to a city? Tha's one terrble internal affair you have there. Our condolances." *snicker snicker*

It''s certainly harder when the three largest megas (S-K, NeoNET, MCT) have dragons in positions of power, while several others might. As long as Lofwyr wants to keep dragons above mortal issues, they'll vote against CC operation. That makes it an internal affair and hard to handle while there's a war on. Worse, Aztlan has two hostile neighbors in the north (PCC and CAS), and Sirrug has actively attacked both of them, daring them to invade Aztlan to get revenge. That keeps Aztlan troops having to shore up the borders, just in case, too.

Not a happy nation right now, I can tell you. :)

Of course, they've also been working on anti-dragon weaponry, which may, or may not, work. If they can't keep their target in one area long enough to use it, however, it does them no good. Thanks to Hestaby's heads-up, I'd lay good odds that any such weapon they have is currently in Tenochitlan, to keep the board members safe. That Sirrug hasn't attacked there, directly into the jaws of Aztechnology, should tell you that if he doesn't *fear* them, he at least understands that, in a confrontation, they could hurt him badly, even kill him, so he has to strengthen his side and weaken theirs.

How much do you want to bet that there are several Mr Johnsons out there who are hiring for runners to go after the ever-hated Aztechnology corp? Has your local group's PCs been approached by a gorgeous Brazillian woman who'd love to have them engage in datasteals and monkeywrenching, and provides a Neo-Nuatl linguasoft as a bonus? Because if not, you're not using this situation to your benefit. The big plot arcs are there to give your games cool stuff to do! I'm okay with you sitting back, reading, and going, "Oh hey, neat, wonder what happens next?" but, man oh man, I really want you guys to sneak around, break in to a place, and sling some dice. That's where the fun is!

Mirikon

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« Reply #127 on: <09-17-12/1555:00> »
Each member of the corporate court is going to act in their corporation's best interests; taking Danchekker out (the only use of a Thor shot that I know about) was in every corporation's interests.
Only use of a Thor shot against live targets that can be confirmed, yes. However, in House of the Sun, the court set off a ring of Thor shots around Hawaii as a demonstration of its displeasure that there was a revolt on. Also, it was heavily implied if not said outright that they used Thor as a warning shot across the bow of the US Pacific fleet when they steamed to try and stop Hawaii from seceeding during the Ghost Dance War. On top of a Hawaiian version of the Dance.
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raggedhalo

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« Reply #128 on: <10-09-12/0843:02> »
- Is Zebulon Yuichotol, Ghostwalker's mate from the pre-Earthdawn era that was killed by the Therans? It sure reads that way (plus Yuichotol was rumoured to have remained as a spirit after her death).

Worth looking at SRM 02-18 for Yuichotol stuff...
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Kot

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« Reply #129 on: <10-09-12/1218:26> »
Hestaby is the greatest dragon magician.
That's Ghostwalker (Icewing) - I don't think he'd miraculously forget all he had known in the Age of Legends. In terms of raw magical power and skills, he was the top dog back then.

As for H's alliance with Azt, that's pretty much where I stopped reading. I doubt he'd forget what they've done, and what they represent. That, and the fact that H wasn't any part of the anti-dragon front among the IE's. I might have missed a few things along the way - I did not read any missions, or rulebooks for a long time.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #130 on: <10-09-12/1313:13> »
Well, Kot, people will do crazy things for love. As far as Harlequin is concerned, Aina died because of Ghostwalker, so Ghostwalker is going DOWN, no matter what he has to do in order to accomplish that. In my opinion, he's become fey and dangerous. He is willing to see the world burn in order to get his revenge.

As for Ghostwalker being the best dragon magician? We don't have Dollmaker's stats, but he is widely regarded as being the best with Spirits. As far as casting goes, Hestaby may very well be his equal or better. But Ghostwalker does have more experience than she does, to be sure, and is more physically powerful.
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Longshot23

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« Reply #131 on: <10-10-12/0130:19> »
Um . . . Doll-Maker IS Ghostwalker, actually.

Mirikon

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« Reply #132 on: <10-10-12/0134:39> »
Yes I know that, Longshot. I was using the names interchangeably. And the 'She' I was referring to was obviously Hestaby, following the context of the conversation.
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Kot

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« Reply #133 on: <10-10-12/0623:57> »
Well, Icewing/Ghostwalker was a manipulative bastard back in the Age of Legends. I might not be so surprised if it was Dunkelzahn made him oversleep on purpose. Sibling rivalry aside, Big D was already a fan of Metahumanity way before the downtime.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #134 on: <10-10-12/0739:53> »
No, Ghostwalker didn't oversleep. While all the other dragons were sleeping, he was on a 5000 year metaplanar quest. Just what he was doing during all that time we STILL have no idea.
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