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Letting them Lay in It

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lurkeroutthere

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« on: <09-07-12/1904:32> »
So my players have gotten themselves in a relatively bad spot. The situation isn't hopeless but honestly extracting their fat from the fire is going to be a pretty solid test of not only their characters abilities, but their own ability to think tactically. I mostly post up here because I like to hear myself think, and because it gives me a chance to double check myself.

The Setting: New York, allowing me to contrast the relatively normal area of the surrounding burroughs and the lawlessness of the terminal and some of the worse sections of the city with the surveillance state "safe" society of the island itself. Basically we get to cater to multiple different mission types and playstyles relatively seamlessly.

The History: I have a shadowrun campaign that's been going somewhere between 2 and 3 months now. The characters have just started to get enough rep and karma going to start to receive jobs from the corporate sector where as previously they were doing business primarily for independents and the syndicates. Over the course of their exploits the Mafia came to believe that they were affiliated with some branch of law enforcement. This is based mostly on some factor or wrong time, wrong place, and their own propensity for impersonating police.

In a mission a few weeks ago they were hired to recover an item that was laying dormant and forgotten in a bank vault. Getting the item to the surface they took it to a pre-arranged location to pop it open so their Johnson could inspect the contents remotely. Their Johnson was thorough and provided them a basic biocontainment setup to open the case within and hazmat suits. They opted to suit up and have the case be opened withint he containment tent by a spirit of man, who was promptly eaten "alive". Then the stuff inside the tent breached the tent and got out into the surrounding atmosphere. Because it was relatively near downtown Manhattan NBC detectors pretty much immediately started going off. Their J commed them to let them know the deal was still on, but that they were very hot right now and needed to get rid of the other canisters of biocontaminant within the case and then deliver the artifact to him. He offered a bonus as a blow softener for this additional work.

Meanwhile as all this was happening two gentlemen with distinct irish accents attempted to pack their stuff and drive out of the area at high speed from a storage unit nearby. While the teams initial intent was to carjack them they instead decided to pitch the canisters into those guys storage unit (a bolthole type setup upon further examination) and then run. They stole a boat and through various means slipped the net. They saw the Irishmen getting picked up by the cops on the highway that runs parallel to the shore.

In the intervening time they did a mission that got one fo their members a 60 second light copy spot on various new channels as he attempted to run from a flock of NYPDinc drones dragging them behind him like a cape. All's well that end's well as his crimes he was being chased for were mostly in relation to a otherwise legal fugitive apprehension so while he did get taken in by the cops no criminal charges were pressed once he paid restitution and fines.

Unfortunately, those Irishmen? They were Knights of the Red Branch, and their brothers and sisters took the whole thing kind of personal, and since the IR...err KoRB and the Mafia have a fairly good working relationship they'd already been sharing notes on the the runners. The Mob had adopted a live and let live policy, the Knights however are out for blood. The troll that was picked up in jail was arranged to be handed into Knights custody. They doped him with stuff to make him complacent while still in jail and then took him to a pub and got him too hammered to stand. They then arranged for a very conspicuous box to be visible under the riggers van when she and the rest of the team were going to go pick him up.

The full details of some of the teams previous adventures can be found at my wikia: http://lurkersshadowrunworld.wikia.com/wiki/Lurkersshadowrunworld_Wiki Revel in the lack of articles and long winded poorly written mission synopsis. Marvel at how only half my gaming group has done character writeups even when bribed with karma.

To make things simple the team got brought to a neutral meeting spot to have a chat with the Knights with their team mates life in the balance. The Knights for their part were very straight forward, normally they kill people for getting their own picked up by the cops, but they were inclined to let bygones be bygones if the runners undid what they'd done.

Here comes one of my dreaded moral choices: The runners could break into the Roosevelt Island, then break into the max security prison there (really really hard) and rescue the guys they'd framed. Or they could break into the biohazard containment unit the coroners office had and steal the cannisters from there (comparatively easy) and turn it over to the Knights, were were pretty gleeful about the fact that they'd love to see what happens when they dump the stuff on the shroud. Once they agreed to the job Torkian was released by the Knights as a sign of good faith and the runners were given a deadline of three days to complete their assignment as that's when there's be an evidential hearing in the Knights case. No evidence, minimal problems.

Wanting to be out from under the Knights crosshairs in the shortest amount of time possible the runners after some initial debate set off for the Coroners office. Other then a stop by their favorite ID forger for a few ID's from his collection they opt to dress up like dockwagon doing a body drop at the coroners office. Two of the team will go in as docwagon, two of the team will go in as bodies. I say sure why not. Their technomancer gets access to the buildings internals and puts them on the schedule to get them past the checkpoint with barely more then a fuss. She confirms she can't access the containment facilities network so it must be completely sequestered and accessed through hard lines or other means. The team forges ahead and triggers an alarm in the complex proper to BS their way into the containment lab. After a humorous moment where their depressurized in the airlock (so guys, make me a breath holding test!) they make it through into the containment facility proper. A tech and two guards escort them into the body storage area where the dead rise. Unfortunately their ambush isn't as quick or complete as they'd like. Turns out SR bodybags are pretty solid, something about shedim. In any case they disable the guards and the tech but the gunfire gets other guard and tech attention who trigger an alert. They make it to the vault disabling a couple guards to do so and start to work on the vault, but because of poor planing they were without proper tools having to rely on what they scrounged in the lab.

Where we broke for the night is the rigger about to disable some follow on forces, a pair of detectives rolling up and gearing up in the parking lot. It's going to take them a minimum of 10 minuets to breach the vault, quite possibly more.

So at this point i'm thinking if they don't cut and run (mission failure, but preferable to mission death) their in a bad but not completely unwinnable spot. The biggest question will be if they can retain control of the buildings matrix systems and keep the astral space clear of onlookers to deny the enemy information. The biggest thing working in their favor other then their current control of the building position and a dug in position is that NYPDinc supressed information on what was under containment, and would like to keep it that way to avoid some awkward questions. So they can't just throw tactical teams at the problem until it goes away. Current plan on my part is the block gets cordoned off under cover of "a gas leak" while NYPD sends in a single tactical team to try and ascertain the situation and infiltrate the facility. If that team fails or if they are able to determine that the runners are about to breach the vault they'll likely call for a full on multilevel response and damn the publicity. Fortunately if the runners play their cards right they should be gone or at least running from the position before the murder machine kicks into high gear.

Final stuff: I'm a hard ass GM, i reward the runners well and make them work for it. I believe at a certain level the rest of the game world is staffed by competent people, who while not necessarily on the same raw caliber as the runners individually have a fair amount of information at their fingertips and resources at their disposal. There will be no easy outs from the mission, no conspiracies of enemy of my enemy to save them. The counter to that is i seldom if ever do "oh look random happinstance to screw you" everything in my game world happens for a reason, even if that reason isn't directly related to the runners.

If their apprehended it's game over for any characters who are caught. Breaking in to a police lab to steal a WMD is not something you get out on bail on. Nor are the cops going to be in a catch and release or deal cutting mood. The smartest actual choice at this point is to run right now and not look back and get out before the response team arrives, in fact I plan on putting that to a vote at the start of the session. But presuming they commit, which I think they will, they'll ride this train through to the very end and hopefully the survivors have learned a valuable lesson about recon.

So the question is, am I being reasonable? Is there something i'm over looking that might dramaticly change the game?

Also anyone have an idea for something that could be in the lab to be looted as a door prize, something relatively portable that they could turn into some ready cash when all is said and done?

TLDR: My players really stuck their foot in it this time, any thing I should keep in mind while applying lube to the drill? And valid non fiat reason I shouldn't just do my utmost to kill them all?
« Last Edit: <09-15-12/2238:46> by lurkeroutthere »
"And if the options are "talk to him like a grown up" versus "LOLOLOL murder him in his face until he doesn't come back," I know which suggestion I'm making." - Critias

No team I'm on has ever had a problem with group think.

Scarecrow71

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« Reply #1 on: <09-11-12/2335:44> »
First of all, I wish I was a player in this game.  You paint a very pretty picture of a great shadowrun game that I can only dream of being in.  If you ever run a PBP, I have to be in it.  But I digress.

I must have missed it, but how many of the team are actually in the lab?  Is it just the 2 who were pretending to be corpses, or did the rest of the team get to stick around and wait to help them ambush the guards?  Because if it's just the 2 inside, then the rest of the team could potentially come in to aid them at some point.  That's not the whole "enemy of my enemy" scenario, because prepared teams would be like "well, they should be out by now, so something is wrong and we should make sure they didn't fuck it too hard".

I'm not sure what entrances and exits are in the lab, but is it even possible to escape from it at this point?  What lies between them and the entrance they came in through?  Do they have a clear path to get out of the building, or are they pretty screwed?  I ask because if there aren't any viable exits, they may have no choice but to stay and hope they can fight their way out.  With or without the mission critical items.

You mentioned that they would probably try to complete the mission, even though death is almost imminent and complete.  You also stated that it would take them no less than 10 minutes to crack the vault at this point, which seems a little long considering they are inside the building.  They could get lucky with dice rolls, but that is a long time to sit in one spot to crack a vault when an alarm is being tripped and they've got no support.  Are they aware of the really long odds on this one?

I personally don't think that, while you are a hard-ass GM, you aren't being unreasonable or fucking them unnecessarily.  Shadowrun is a harsh game, and I've got a couple of quotes from different people I know here and elsewhere that should help sum things up:

1.  I don't kill players; players kill players.  (My favorite, from one of my favorite GMs)
2.  Shadowrunners are nothing more than glass cannons.  (From Xzylvador)

SR is a harsh game, and characters get hurt and they die, usually due to players not realizing when it's time to cut and run.  If your players are familiar with your style of GMing and they stick around in a situation too long that they got themselves in to (such as breaking into a secured building and then botching the ambush of the guards), then they have nobody to blame but themselves if/when their characters end up in those body bags for real.  And they should be ok with it because they are familiar with your style of GMing, and they should know what should happen in that situation.

All in all, let them make the call of what they are doing.  They have plenty of clues and information as to what they should do.
I could wile away the hours conversing with the flowers
Consulting with the rain
And my head I'd be scratching while my thoughts were busy hatching
If I only had a brain...

"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash, Army of Darkness

lurkeroutthere

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« Reply #2 on: <09-12-12/0400:15> »
That's high praise, thank you.

I cross posted this on dumpshock and got some responses, one of the big game changers is one of the palyers remembered he had a breaching charge on him, and specifically had mentioned it earlier. I didn't let him rewind time, but at the 10 minuete mark I let him say "Frag this" and open the vault. To answer your question there were originally 4 people who went into the lab (close quarters adept, generalist sam, Ninja Sam, gun/ranged adept)and 3 in the van(riggermancer, technomancer/face, mage)

But no I don't feel 10 minutes is unreasonable to get a bank grade vault open with improvised tools even if you've got the electronic side of it taken care of by the hacker and a schematic off the computer system. I honestly felt that part was too generous but went with it for game play reasons

After action report.

The team disabled Sam and Twitch (the detectives first on scene) by hacking their car and backing it over them while they were getting their heavy gear out of the trunk. Twich dodged once only to be then love tapped by the teams roadmaster. Sam had to be thrown into the teams Valkyrie module to stabilize him. He was later dumped out in the road to delay some of the pursuers. One of our players was gone this week so his character took the detectives car and decided to run the blockade to try and draw off some of the response forces.

The team disabled the last guard in the building having to come under fire from the turret mounted redlines that were setup in the chokepoint area off the buildings regular grid. In order to keep enemy hackers at bay the hacker/technomancer threw a machine sprite into the building node to oversee it and then they systematically took the node off line. The mage defeated an astrally recon opposing mage. (humorous astral combat slap fight, followed by humorous spell battle that the shadowrunner mage finally came out on top.)

They drove their getaway vehicle a short ways away and tried to park it in a subtle spot. That didn't work out so well for them as even in 2070 a road master isn't as subtle as a bulldog. Fortunately it didn't matter as just as some of the tac team was coming up to try and get them out of the vehicle the bomb went off so they left team girl power (the people in the van were the mage, the rigger, and the hacker, all members of the fairer sex) without the ladies ever being aware that as they did their thing in the matrix and the astral angry people in ruthenium coated milspec were deciding whether to try and capture them in the vehicle or just put a bomb under it.

At 10 minuets the team elected to abort the careful approach and blow the vault. At roughly the same time (about 16 minuetes since alarm was triggered) the tac team got on site, they snuck up on and knocked out the runner trying to stake out on the roof (the ranged adept had gone up top after taking care of the last guard in the vicinity as he's a sniper by build and inclination.. They then bypassed the maglock on the loading dock door to get in. The sprite really didn't have much chance to see them as he was only a rating 4. The team ran into the safe and snagged the canisters before running upstairs. Simultaneous to the bomb going off the roadmaster moved into position in the process getting spotted and hacked into by an NYPDinc hacker. He got into cybercombat with the teams rigger and hacker and eventually was beaten down and ejected off the system but not before putting a pretty decent hurting on the teams rigger.

Team came upstairs and ran into the tactical team, a short but tense standoff ensued where the team threatened to release the bio agent. The tac team responded by calling shots specifically not to hit the canisters and a fire fight/melee broke out. The runners were getting their butts handed to them before the teams mage finally decided it was safe to get out of the van and came in and wiped the opposition even though she was pretty well walking wounded after her own epic slap fight duel.. Unable to not hit one of her team mates with an AOE stunball she opted not to give him counterspelling after recalling his "blood rage" problem and reasoning she would rather have him out cold then thinking she was the enemy. She and the remaining standing teammate hauled him to the van. Since the rest of the tac team had left their compatriot on the roof they sent a spirit to get him.

All taking off off they had to evade pursuit a bit but eventually made it into upstate new york and loosing their pursuit. They ditched their vehicle, grabed the canisters and hiked into town. They contacted the Knights and handed off the canisters without a fuss. They got some pay data off the system which they were able to fence for ok cash to offset expenses and go into the team kitty.

On the whole I felt pretty good about this session. The players knowledge of the rule system has come a long way so all the combats tonight went fairly quickly. The players seemed to have fun and are already discussing changes and improvements they could make after they take a little vacation out of town. There were a couple times I made some missteps with the opposition that probably would have killed or incapacitated more of the party, but on the balance I was ok with that as an outcome as the team was suitably threatened and beat up by the time all was said and done.
"And if the options are "talk to him like a grown up" versus "LOLOLOL murder him in his face until he doesn't come back," I know which suggestion I'm making." - Critias

No team I'm on has ever had a problem with group think.

Lysanderz

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« Reply #3 on: <09-14-12/2125:54> »
My jealousy of your playgroup is unparalelled. If you ever play online.... I shall hunt you down and demand a spot at the table.

Wolfboy

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« Reply #4 on: <09-23-12/1322:47> »
i want a seat as well, one thing I noticed was missing however was a somewhat third option back when the Knights were futzing things up. Didnt the Orriginal Johnson want the material? maybe i misread, but he wanted the cannisters too, and its only because of the Knights that the handoff there was futzed. third option. Steal the cannisters and hand them back to the orriginal johnson, Knights are somewhat happy because the evidence is gone, Team is happy because they get the member back, and the johnson is happy because he gets his stuff
May god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, to change the things I can, and the firepower to make the difference.

Suicide is never the answer, now homicide on the other hand, that has posibilities.

7.62 Russian, when it absolutely has to be done under budget

lurkeroutthere

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« Reply #5 on: <09-23-12/1552:34> »
No, the original Johnson's interest was in an artifact that was being researched in conjunction with the bioweapon when the whole project got shut down. Basically the artifact produces low levels of fairly innocuous mana or background count. The bug eats background count.  The artifact was being used basicalyl a stable food source for the bug. The J didn't know that and thought he'd tracked down the artifact being unaware the bug would still be alive (and thriving) after all this time.
"And if the options are "talk to him like a grown up" versus "LOLOLOL murder him in his face until he doesn't come back," I know which suggestion I'm making." - Critias

No team I'm on has ever had a problem with group think.

Wolfboy

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« Reply #6 on: <09-23-12/1937:51> »
ah like i said, i missed something
May god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, to change the things I can, and the firepower to make the difference.

Suicide is never the answer, now homicide on the other hand, that has posibilities.

7.62 Russian, when it absolutely has to be done under budget