[WellsIDidIt]

So I've been talking to a few old gaming buddies of mine and it's got me wondering how much is too much for most gaming groups. I've never been one to keep someone around that constantly grates on my nerves, much less the nerves of my other players, but it seems that a lot of gamers will put up with a rotten apple for a long time rather than tossing them out.

I'm not talking about little things like a disagreement over which is better a sword or scimitar, but large issues like: Disrespect the host, Yelling at other players, Overwhelming stench, etc.

What are you personal pet peeves, and when do they pick up to the point that someone has got to go.

Personally, I give everyone a second chance, but my biggest pet peeve is when someone kind enough to host the game is blatantly disrespected by another player. This is usually something as blatant as slamming the door after a disagreement, refusing to take off shoes, or being too lazy to pick up after oneself.

My other pet peeve is griping at other players. If the other players wanted to be griped at they'd pick up a second job or call their parents. They don't. They want to have fun. You've got your character to have fun with, they've got their character to have fun with. If a player is grouchy enough that the rest of the players aren't enjoying things, they've got to be tossed out.

[Critias]

To me, it really depends on the problem.  Some things are "fuck you, you're gone" as far as I'm concerned (inappropriate comments or touching at a game, giving off a "vibe" that makes the gals at the game uncomfortable, certain types of comments or jokes, that sort of thing).  I'm sure it happens more in LARPs than tabletop gaming, but there are some folks who get a little frisky with female gamers (or the wife of the GM, or someone's sister, or whoever the hell else is in range), and for that sort of shit?  Yeah.  It's "get out, take your stuff with you, don't come back," y'know?  Likewise, if anyone were to get violent (or threaten to) over in-game issues, well, that's a way to make it clear they're just not compatible with our group and never will be.

More things are "shape up or you're gone," which basically has to be bad enough for the group to bitch to one another about you in the meantime (and reach a consensus), which realistically means it's got to be a problem for several weeks/sessions.  These tend to be less severe interpersonal problems, or the in-game stuff.  Those type of things -- hygiene issues, "creative" chargen or character advancement, repeatedly "misunderstanding" the rules of a game in your favor, "misreading" dice -- well, if the person is a social friend and not just a gamer we happen to be playing with...well, we've been known to cut a little slack, but have repeated conversations and make it clearer and clearer when a problem is becoming a problem.  Basically once something has been a problem enough for more than one of us to notice it, it becomes a "second/last chance" situation, y'know?

[JustADude]

I'd have to agree with Critas on this, with special emphasis on the fact that, unless it's something blatantly uber-creepy, the offending player should get an Official Warning before being kicked to the curb... with special emphasis on TALK TO THEM BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING PERMANENT, especially in the case of "attitude" problems.

Most of the time in situations where someone is being "rude" or "grumpy", especially if it's a change in a long-term player, the person won't even have realized they're doing it. Generally, assholes aside, it happens for one of two reasons: Either they've got a lot of stress in other areas of their life and it's "leaking", or something's made them unhappy with the game and they 1) haven't consciously realized it, 2) don't feel able to approach you about it, or 3) have been outright stating that they're not happy with the game, and you're about to be a massive douche by "firing" your player for it because he's "being disrespectful" rather than figuring out how to fix things.

Whatever the reason, though, common freakin' courtesy dictates that you should take them aside and tell them "Hey, your attitude's been really killing the mood for everyone lately. Like, bad enough I may have to do something neither of us is gonna like. What's going on, man? Everything kosher?" rather than just telling them "You're an asshole. GTFO." out of the blue.

... ... ...

And yes, the one time I've ever had anything like that happen to me was rather like that. I was extremely unhappy because in four separate campaigns, in three separate systems, the GM's Wife was always the star of the goddamn show. The tasks, the meta-plots, and the lion's share of the "down-time" narration were tailored to make her character the center of attention. EVERYTHING revolved around her characters' cutsey-wootsy little heads. Even NPCs and backgrounds that had been bought and paid-for by other players were twisted to be subordinate to her, or otherwise totally ignored.

I'm talking about a Frequency 6 Enemy, tied in with Nemesis, not getting mentioned once in a dozen sessions because he couldn't find some way to tie it in with his wife's story-line. Even me actively trying to run leg-work on the guy got nothing more than "he's busy with some project in Hong Kong," followed by spending an hour on his wife's solo-act street race.

Eventually I got fed up with it, and I told the GM I'm feeling like a second-rate extra in the GM's Wife Show, and I'm getting sick and tired of being shown up at every turn and generally feeling useless. Lo and behold, the next day I get a text saying that "we" had decided I was "extremely rude" and was "no longer invited to play".

[shrike]

TALK TO THEM BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING PERMANENT, especially in the case of "attitude" problems.

Most of the time in situations where someone is being "rude" or "grumpy", especially if it's a change in a long-term player, the person won't even have realized they're doing it. Generally, assholes aside, it happens for one of two reasons: Either they've got a lot of stress in other areas of their life and it's "leaking", or something's made them unhappy with the game and they 1) haven't consciously realized it, 2) don't feel able to approach you about it, or 3) have been outright stating that they're not happy with the game, and you're about to be a massive douche by "firing" your player for it because he's "being disrespectful" rather than figuring out how to fix things.

Whatever the reason, though, common freakin' courtesy dictates that you should take them aside and tell them "Hey, your attitude's been really killing the mood for everyone lately. Like, bad enough I may have to do something neither of us is gonna like. What's going on, man? Everything kosher?" rather than just telling them "You're an asshole. GTFO." out of the blue.

Agreed. Fortunately for us, my group and I have only encountered this once. A very good friend of ours (me, my wife, and my best friend) wanted to play with us in our home game and he just so happened to own the local gaming store. We are always looking to expand our gaming table, so we let him know when we got together and extended an official invite. He could never make it on time, and I mean 'never'. We either started late, or had to spend 30 minutes recapping to get him up to speed. I, as Gm at the time, spoke to him about the disruption this caused and that my other players were expressing their concerns about his punctuality. Theses were ignored. Strike one.

Another problem we had was that he wanted us to move our home game to his store to stir up interest for gaming in general. I was uncomfortable with this, but the others were all for it, so I sucked it up and we moved our game to his store (changing our play hours also). This was a big mistake. We had people come up and take our character sheets just to look at them, interrupt us while we were talking to ask us about our characters/games/favorite MMO's, and just be generally rude. I'm not talking about your generally curious people whom we were happy to talk to and explain a bit about the game. At any rate, we decided to move our game back to our original location (which just happened to be my house). He was upset because we moved the game back without a 'group discussion', (which we had by the way). Hissy fits ensue. Strike two.

The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was when he started to make one of the player's uncomfortable. This player happened to be my wife. To avoid my knee-jerk reaction (boot him from the game with a sledge hammer), I spoke to the group both individually and together, explaining what was going on and asking the offending player if something was happening outside (or inside) the game to cause him to act in such a manner. He refused to believe that he was making her uncomfortable, even though all of us had seen it at one point or another, and going so far as call my wife some very inappropriate names. Strike three.

Unfortunately, our friendship was terminated with extreme prejudice (apparently we were persecuting him), and he was booted immediately from our game. Having talked to the guy on numerous occasions, I feel like 'I' did everything I could have to salvage both our friendship and the game, however, the name calling was way over the line.

At any rate, one should definitely address an issue before it gets too far by talking to the offending individual(s). If talking doesn't work, kick them to the curb. Just my two nuyen.

[WellsIDidIt]

TALK TO THEM BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING PERMANENT, especially in the case of "attitude" problems.

Most of the time in situations where someone is being "rude" or "grumpy", especially if it's a change in a long-term player, the person won't even have realized they're doing it. Generally, assholes aside, it happens for one of two reasons: Either they've got a lot of stress in other areas of their life and it's "leaking", or something's made them unhappy with the game and they 1) haven't consciously realized it, 2) don't feel able to approach you about it, or 3) have been outright stating that they're not happy with the game, and you're about to be a massive douche by "firing" your player for it because he's "being disrespectful" rather than figuring out how to fix things.

Whatever the reason, though, common freakin' courtesy dictates that you should take them aside and tell them "Hey, your attitude's been really killing the mood for everyone lately. Like, bad enough I may have to do something neither of us is gonna like. What's going on, man? Everything kosher?" rather than just telling them "You're an asshole. GTFO." out of the blue.

I guess I'm on the other side of the fence. If I'm a dick to someone, I know it. If I smell skunky I know it. If I'm making someone uncomfortable, I know it. If I'm making a group of people unhappy, I know it. If I do nothing to fix it, that's on me, not on my GM for not playing guidance counselor to me. People get paid for that job.

Same token, I've got anger issues and I know it. If I'm GMing, especially at my home, I'm not going to take a problem player aside and risk him yelling at me and setting me off. I'll call the game early, tell them I'm too tired to deal with it tonight, and discuss options with the rest of the group before the next session. End of the day, I've never once seen a player get booted where they had no idea there was an issue. I've seen them willfully ignore it and make up every excuse in the book, but you can look them in the eye and tell they know.

I've got to ask though, how did the rest of your group feel? Did your play styles mesh? Do they game with you, or do they still game with the GM? Were there any warning signs at all? GM calling the game early ever? Other group members acting offended? Other group members snapping at you? Did the other players have their backstories tied in at all? Did you try to get in on the Roleplaying or did you remain a Combat Monkey? I guess the last question is probably the most important, but were you rude to the GM when you brought the issue up with him? More importantly, were you rude to his wife (far more important from the perspective of a married man) at all?

Not trying to be rude, but every single time I've ever seen someone complain about myself or another GM that plays with their wife, I hear this same issue pop up and it irks me the wrong way. Hell, I once had a guy try to tell me that my campaign was custom tailored to my wife when I was running a by the book Missions campaign. This guy powertweaked his character to the max and sat in the corner all night until combat started, then grumbled about not getting any face time, when during every RP scenario his actions ranged between sit in a corner and shoot it in the face.

If I'm off-base I'm sorry (and my rep score will probably drop like a lead brick), but if the rest of the group has, for lack of a better word, sided with your GM and didn't have an issue (your irritable tone makes it seem like the case), then maybe you should step back and take look number two at it. Get a hold of some of the other players and honest to god ask them what could have been done differently. I say this, because I can't imagine four campaigns worth of players sitting around for this and you being the only one with an issue to it. Maybe the other players can give you insight to fix things. Maybe a break will give time for things to cool off and you can make your way back into the group. Maybe you just don't mesh and another group will better benefit you. If nothing else, talking to the other players will let you know if it was a GM/Wife smiting or a whole group vote/unanimous decision.

[JustADude]

*SNIP*

*REDACTED*

Responding to this one via PM, because I'm slightly irritated and I don't want FastJack's blood-pressure going up.

[lurkeroutthere]

I'm fairly terrible at kicking people out of groups, on the other hand when I do it's generally something so egregious it's generally a "ya know what, don't come back." kind of thing. I try and be communicative and all that good stuff, but more or less once I build a gaming group it tends to stay in oen configuration or another for years on end so it's seldom an issue.

[Mara]

My area, we have a number of players that will come into our groups who are new at RPing in general.
We game at our FLGS, because....hey, it is good for the store. I have actually seen people get game books
after seeing us having a great time with a game(NOTE: we are a very informal group, and our story lines can get
into some twisted, convulted messes....because I like subtle plots, and I usually GM, but I have to keep newbies
viable, and deal with a player who is a combat monkey, as well as the phenomenal luck player, the shy kid who
is afraid to speak up because he thinks he might say something wrong, etc, etc...pretty much, the only thing our
group doesn't have, and not for lack of trying, is ladies.) Frankly, I have only ever had to have a serious talk with
a player ONCE. And, it wasn't that he, personally, was a problem. It was that he just would not pay attention to
what was happening in game, was chronicly late, or unpredicitable about when/if he would show up, and, finally,
the other players were complaining to me about being tired of having to constantly save him. And..I mean, even
in social settings like a bar...he almost got himself....well..worse then killed..He stumbled, with skill wire implants,
into a Bunraku parlour in game, where he fell for the sweet lines that got him drugged...(His character was female,
because, as a rule, we use random character gender and sex assignment in our games because some sorts of
stories just work better with female characters.) We basicly sat down, spoke the problems out to him, and...
he just stopped coming. We did not kick him out. We told him he is welcome to play, that he is a good kid, but
he needs to pay more attention, to try and learn the systems(in a d20 game, he kept asking what dice to roll
to do skill checks, saving throws, etc..In shadowrun, we literally had to tell him, multiple times over a COMBAT
how to build his dice pool)., and focus on the game, not what the magic players or yugi-oh players were doing.

Come to find out that he has been kicked out of several groups since leaving ours, for the same basic problems.
I feel sorry for the kid, as he was one of those sheltered kids, and I, personally, think there are depression issues
going...but...when you have to do two versions of the plan for every session: one for if he shows up, one for if he
doesn't, it gets bad, and everything else just got worse and worse from there....

[beowulf_of_wa]

only had this sort of thing really come up once.

we had a player with "a couple issues of varying types" including psychological and substances, good at making the munchkin characters, and playing them within his "normal parameters"

he basically decided he had been booted when character #4 died at the hand of the youngest player and the entire table said no to munchkin character #5.
 
how it happened: it was truly a lucky shot based off a horrible choice of words, "i walk out to the street and shoot the first person i see" *roll* "oh yeah, double crit!!" GM: random roll for who gets shot, party is 6, rolls a d10 to include NPC pedestrians, had each of us roll to see who was closest to his roll, player got really unlucky and shot between the eyes, then squished by the massive load of shite he was carrying assisted by the 4 Jedi in the party.

maybe the other part was when i passed a note to the gm immediately after he died (as soon as i can, i loot the body and his room) though he was already packing his stuff to go by that point. he had tried to whip out #5 for use and upon reading the sheet the GM laughed, "oh god NO! but you could ask them, if they say yes, then you can use this,,,,,, character."

[Mad Hamish]

It's highly dependent upon exactly what the problematic behavior is as to how much I'll put up with.

I play with some people who have very little ideas of the rules of games that they've been playing for years (I'll admit that I'm not overly up on some of the rules of new ones) which annoys me. I play with some people who have very little idea of how to make their characters effective

Both annoy me but I wouldn't kick a player out over it.

If somebody is deliberately disruptive to the game or abusive to other players that's another story.

[Katrex]

On the other hand Ive had many problems with a certain type of gm.

 It's the gm prefers to be playing and making ridiculously strong minmaxed charecters. The problem with these gms is they play a very rules heavy game but not exactly the right rules. They play to win, so they leverage rules they know but everyone doesn't to beat the players. And they tend to not be able to see things from others point of view.
Needless to say I left most of those groups.

Gm because you enjoy gming, not because you want to be a player in a game. Doing a oneshot to generate interest in other gms is well and good. But don't run a campaign that you much rather be playing, because odds are you'll play it like a player and miss the whole point.

[emsquared]

Knock on wood, I've never had to deal with anything like this.

The worst it's gotten in my groups is people have removed themselves after seeing they don't fit in.

From other guys I've gamed with, their booting experiences have ranged from one session to several, just depends on the "infractions". Therefore I voted for, "until I'm fed up with them". I could see it being after one incident that we couldn't stand someone, or it could build up over ten. And it'd always be a group decision, not a single players (GM) choice. If it's just one player, maybe it's that player who's the problem.

[All4BigGuns]

You should be very careful about "booting" anyone. One would assume that everyone present are friends, and thus kicking someone out could lead to hurt feelings and could potentially damage the friendship. Is a game really worth damaging a friendship? In most cases, I don't really think so.

[ArkangelWinter]

Which is why my groups are not my friends, regardless of how they feel about it. I only run for gaming clubs and I only attend to run and leave (though I'd love to have free time to actually hang out and make friends outside of my player pool), and only have to worry about being fair, not them saying "I'm not your friend anymore!". Never were, chump.

My last game with "friends" was almost 6 years ago, and there were rarely problems. Even when some guys got butthurt, they got over it in a week or two, because we were friends. They then returned with a willingness to work on the issues.

Edit for typos. Damn phone

[lurkeroutthere]

You should be very careful about "booting" anyone. One would assume that everyone present are friends, and thus kicking someone out could lead to hurt feelings and could potentially damage the friendship. Is a game really worth damaging a friendship? In most cases, I don't really think so.

If your friends quit you over game stuff or you can't talk to them about issue their causing they are not really your friends is my thought.