[Scrit]

So I got a game coming up soon with my GM, group needed some muscle bad so I threw this character together. House rules were typical 400 point build system and no restriction in gear. So I made this gentlemen to focus as a tank, as well as to crush people's skulls in or fill them with bullets. The way I look at it in the runs my GM has thrown at us before that this should be some effective muscle. But for the fun of it I wanted to share it with you all. Feed back would be great so I can have ideas for future events with the character. He disent have much of a background yet other then that he goblinized into a Minotaur and that likes a more hand in aprouch and that he has ties to the halloweeners is a bit obvious but no current contacts with them. But yeah tell me what you think.

Lastly excuse the format it's just a copy paste from an HTML document


NAME/ALIAS: Dimitri (Dimitri)   PLAYER: Scrit    MOVEMENT: 15/35, Swim: 7
METATYPE: Troll (Minotaur)   AGE:   22   SEX:   Male   NUYEN:   1,000
HEIGHT:      WEIGHT:      HAIR:   Black   EYES:   Emerald Green   SKIN:   Brown fur
KARMA:   0   TOTAL KARMA:   0   STREET CRED:   0   NOTORIETY:   1   PUBLIC AWARE:   0
COMPOSURE:   5   JUDGE INTENTIONS:   4   LIFT/CARRY:   21   LIFT/CARRY WEIGHT:   180 kg/120 kg   MEMORY:   5
PERSONAL DATA Show: YESPage Break: NO
PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES   MENTAL ATTRIBUTES   SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES   SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES
BODY: 9
CHARISMA: 2
EDGE: 1
CURRENT EDGE POINTS:
AGILITY: 4 (6)
INTUITION: 2
ESSENCE: 5.04
ASTRAL INIT: 4
REACTION: 4 (7)
LOGIC: 2
INITIATIVE: 6 (9)
MATRIX INIT: 6
STRENGTH: 8 (12)
WILLPOWER: 3
MAGIC: 5  
INIT PASSES: 1 (4)    MATRIX: 1    ASTRAL: 3
ATTRIBUTES Show: YESPage Break: NO
ACTIVE SKILLS
SKILL NAME   POOL   RTG.   ATT.   R. MOD.   P. MOD.
Animal Handling   1   0   2   0   0
Animal Training   1   0   2   0   0
Archery   5   0   6   0   0
Armorer   1   0   2   0   0
Artisan   1   0   2   0   0
Automatics (Assault Rifles)   10 (12)   2   6   0   2
Blades   5   0   6   0   0
Climbing (Freehand)   14 (16)   2   12   0   0
Clubs   5   0   6   0   0
Computer   1   0   2   0   0
Con (Seduction)   3 (5)   1   2   0   0
Cybercombat   1   0   2   0   0
Data Search   1   0   2   0   0
Demolitions   1   0   2   0   0
Disguise   1   0   2   0   0
Diving   8   0   9   0   0
Dodge (Melee Combat)   9 (11)   2   7   0   0
Escape Artist   5   0   6   0   0
Etiquette   3   1   2   0   0
First Aid   3   1   2   0   0
Flight   11   0   12   0   0
Forgery   5   0   6   0   0
Gunnery   5   0   6   0   0
Gymnastics (Parkour)   8 (10)   2   6   0   0
ACTIVE SKILLS
SKILL NAME   POOL   RTG.   ATT.   R. MOD.   P. MOD.
Hacking   1   0   2   0   0
Heavy Weapons   7   0   6   0   2
Infiltration   7   1   6   0   0
Instruction   1   0   2   0   0
Intimidation   1   0   2   0   0
Leadership   1   0   2   0   0
Locksmith   5   0   6   0   0
Longarms   7   0   6   0   2
Navigation   1   0   2   0   0
Negotiation   3   1   2   0   0
Palming   5   0   6   0   0
Parachuting   8   0   9   0   0
Perception   3   1   2   0   0
Pilot Ground Craft   6   0   7   0   0
Pilot Watercraft   6   0   7   0   0
Pistols   7   0   6   0   2
Riding   6   0   7   0   0
Running (Urban)   14 (16)   2   12   0   0
Shadowing   1   0   2   0   0
Survival   2   0   3   0   0
Swimming   11   0   12   0   0
Throwing Weapons   5   0   6   0   0
Tracking   1   0   2   0   0
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts)   10 (12)   4   6   0   0
KNOWLEDGE SKILLS
SKILL NAME   POOL   RTG.   ATT.   R. MOD.   P. MOD.
Language: English   4   2   2   0   0
Language: Greek    N    N    N    N    N
Combat Tactics   4   2   2   0   0
Firearms (Automatics)   5 (7)   3   2   0   0
Gangs (Haloweeners)   3 (5)   1   2   0   0
Magical Threats   4   2   2   0   0
SKILLS Show: YESPage Break: NO
CONTACT NAME   TYPE   CONNECTION   LOYALTY/INCIDENCE
Fixer   Contact   3   2
CONTACTS & ENEMIES
QUALITY NAME   
Addiction (Mild) (Cigs)   SR4 93
Adept   SR4 90
Distinctive Style   RC 103
Geas ((Lighting Reflexs) Can not drink coffee)   SM 27
Geas ((Mystic Armor) Must Meditate)   SM 27
Geas ((Wall Running) Must go for a jog)   SM 27
Goring Horns   RC 114
Metagenetic Improvement (BOD)   RC 114
The Warrior's Way   WA 14
Thermographic Vision   RC 115
QUALITIES
ARMOR   BALLISTIC/IMPACT   
TOTAL   10/8   
Armor Jacket   8/6   SR4 326
Clothing   0/0   SR4 326
SWAT Armor   12/10   AR 49
Biomonitor; Fire Resistance 4
ARMOR Show: YESPage Break: NO
     
PHYSICAL DAMAGE TRACK   STUN DAMAGE TRACK
            -1
            -2
            -3
            -4
  Down      OVR      OVR
  OVR      OVR      OVR
  OVR      OVR      OVR
  OVR      DEAD   
            -1
            -2
            -3
  Down      
CONDITION MONITOR
WEAPON   DAMAGE   AP   MODE   RC   AMMO   
Shiawase Arms Tactical Model 73   5P   -   SA/BF/FA   3   100(c)   GH2 31
Advanced Safety, Basic System; Electronic Firing; High Velocity; Metahuman Customization; Reduced Weight; Smartgun System
S: 0-50   M: 51-150   L: 151-350   E: 351-550   
RANGED WEAPONS Show: YESPage Break: NO
     
WEAPON   DAMAGE   AP   REACH   
Goring Horns   7P   -   0   RC 114
Unarmed Attack   8P   -   1   SR4 159
MELEE WEAPONS
IMPLANT   ESSENCE   GRADE   
Muscle Augmentation Rating 4   0.64   Alphaware   SR4 345
Muscle Toner Rating 2   0.32   Alphaware   SR4 346
CYBERWARE/BIOWARE Show: YESPage Break: NO
COMMLINK   RESPONSE   SYSTEM   FIREWALL   SIGNAL   
Fairlight Caliban   4   3   3   5   SR4 328
ACCESSORIES
Iris Orb
COMMLINK/PROGRAMS Show: YESPage Break: NO
NAME   RATING   
Critical Strike   2   SR4 195
Improved Reflexes 3      SR4 196
Killing Hands      SR4 196
Mystic Armor   2   SR4 197
Smashing Blow      SM 179
Wall Running      SM 180
ADEPT POWERS Show: YESPage Break: NO
NAME   RATING   
Tae Kwon Do   2   AR 158
MANEUVERS
Finishing Move AR 159; Kick Attack AR 160; Multi-Strike AR 160
MARTIAL ARTS Show: YESPage Break: NO
LIFESTYLE   MONTHS   
Middle   1   SR4 268
LIFESTYLE Show: YESPage Break: NO
NAME   RTG.   QTY.   
Ammo: EX-Explosive Rounds (Assault Rifles)   -   300   SR4 323
AR Gloves   -   1   SR4 328
Fake License (Muscle Augmentation)   4   1   SR4 332
NAME   RTG.   QTY.   
Fake License (Muscle Toner)   4   1   SR4 332
Fake License (SWAT Armor)   4   1   SR4 332
Fake SIN (Jack Davidson)   4   1   SR4 332
NAME   RTG.   QTY.   
Goggles   4   1   SR4 332
Flare Compensation; Smartlink; Ultrasound; Vision Enhancement 3
Subvocal Microphone   -   1   SR4 328

[All4BigGuns]

First off, while I know a lot of people claim that "one should always put 'ware in an adept", I disagree with this, and advise you to drop those implants. Number one, you're paying 10 extra BP to have you current Magic rating, and really, I see this as a waste. Now, if your character idea requires those implants (beyond the supposed "optimization" thing), then by all means keep them, but I think Adept is very much a case of giving up a little bit of power in the short term to get a whole lot of power long term.

[WellsIDidIt]

That argument fails when you look at it. It's give up a little power up front to wind up far behind in the long run if you actually take a deep look at it.

For unaugmented adepts I recommend asking the GM for an "Unaugmented" gaesa to help bring them on par with street sams.

I have a hard time following the format, so I might have missed something, but I recommend Combat Sense over Mystic Armor. It doesn't get hit by AP, reduces damage with hits, and can cause the attack to outright miss. The only downside is that you don't get it if you're surprised, but it helps keep you from being surprised so it's just win/win/win in my book.

Look into more armor choices. You've got a body 9. Armored Jacket with full PPP and Full formfit is 16/14 (16/12 without the helmet). You can do better than that even if you tweak it and optimize it. On a similar note, consider modding your armor. They can really help out in the longrun.

As far as your implants go. Strength 12 isn't really much better than Strength 11 for you, so I'd drop a point out of Muscle Aug, and put another in Muscle Toner for a 7 agility. You won't lose any melee DV, but you'll gain a die to hit.

What bonuses did you take for the Martial Arts?

[Mad Hamish]

Unless I'm missing something you seem to be somewhat over the limit for adept powers

The Warrior's Way   WA 14
NAME   RATING   
Critical Strike   2   SR4 195
Improved Reflexes 3      SR4 196
Killing Hands      SR4 196
Mystic Armor   2   SR4 197
Smashing Blow      SM 179
Wall Running      SM 180

Critical Strike 2 is .5
Improved Reflexes 3 is 4
Killing Hands is .5
Mystic Armor 2 is 1
Smashing Blow is 1
Wall Running is 1

You can get a discount of 25% on 2 of them from The Warrior's Way.
Improved Reflexes goes to 3
Mystic Armour goes to 0.75

So you've spent .5 + 3 + .5 + .75 + 1 + 1 = 6.75 points spent

[Mad Hamish]

First off, while I know a lot of people claim that "one should always put 'ware in an adept", I disagree with this, and advise you to drop those implants. Number one, you're paying 10 extra BP to have you current Magic rating, and really, I see this as a waste. Now, if your character idea requires those implants (beyond the supposed "optimization" thing), then by all means keep them, but I think Adept is very much a case of giving up a little bit of power in the short term to get a whole lot of power long term.

It depends what cyber or bioware you buy as to whether it's worth it.
Muscle Toner 4 gives 4 points of Agility for 0.8 essence (less for alpha, beta or deltaware),
4 points of Improved Physical Attribute costs 3 magic points (it could be 2.25 if a way gives it the discount)
Ditto for Muscle Augmentation

4 points of agility for 1 point of is an amazing trade for damned near any adept (somebody who is solely a face might be the exception)

Improved Reflexes costs 1.5, 2.5 and 4 power points
Synaptic Booster costs 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5 essence

If you buy 5 magic improved reflexes 2 you've spent 45 build points and have 2.5 power points left
If you buy 4 magic, synaptic booster 2 you've spent 67 build points, have 3 power points left and it's cheaper to get magic up either in creation or for advancement to get magic up higher so more power points

if you don't think that's a fair tradeoff start with improved reflexes and then buy synaptic booster when you've got the cash (in a karma rich but money poor campaign it might not be worth it but in most campaign's it'll be worth it). You can drop the improved reflexes power and

given enough cash in play you can buy synaptic booster 3 and for 240,000 Y save 2 magic points over improved reflexes 3 with .5 essence left to spend on other things

[foolofsound]

You really don't have enough armor to be safely tanking; long and full bursts will still hurt a lot. I recommend that you drop the SWAT armor, and take a Form Fitting Body Armor and some or all of the Securetech PPPS equipment; look into modding your armor as well, Chemical Protection and Nonconductivity are particularly useful. Your "May not drink coffee" geas seems a bit weak to me (I wouldn't approve it, as a GM), but if your GM approves I suppose it's fine. I would probably trade wall running for something more useful, unless you are taking it for flavour. You may want to mod and accessorize your gun. I recommend a Foregrip (accessory), Sling (slotless mod), Heavy Barrel (3 slot mod), Gas-Vent 3 system (2 slot mod), and possibly a Barrel Reduction (1 slot mod). Don't forget to buy a Sound Suppressor (accessory) for it, and remember that you have to disengage your Gas Vents to use your suppressor. You might want to trade out your Improved Reflexes power of Synaptic Boosters, as well (4 Magic for 4 passes, versus 1 Magic for 3).

Not sure, what you're talking about, BigGuns. An adept that forgoes augmentations doesn't gain karma, initiation, or magic any faster, so it's not as though they catch up in the long run; they just sacrifice a substantial amount of power. Unaugmented adepts really need some house rules (initiation->power point, for example) to be able to stand up to equal karma street sams. Flavour is all well and good, but your fellow players are going to be annoyed at you if your character can't do his job effectively (by the standards of the party), and most players are going to be bored playing such a subpar character. Besides, if your character isn't pulling his weight, why are the other PCs splitting the pay with him?

[All4BigGuns]

Not sure, what you're talking about, BigGuns. An adept that forgoes augmentations doesn't gain karma, initiation, or magic any faster, so it's not as though they catch up in the long run; they just sacrifice a substantial amount of power. Unaugmented adepts really need some house rules (initiation->power point, for example) to be able to stand up to equal karma street sams. Flavour is all well and good, but your fellow players are going to be annoyed at you if your character can't do his job effectively (by the standards of the party), and most players are going to be bored playing such a subpar character. Besides, if your character isn't pulling his weight, why are the other PCs splitting the pay with him?

That's just it, there is a difference between what is claimed as "optimized" on these forums and "subpar", and there is an entire category in between--that of the normal character.

[foolofsound]

That's just it, there is a difference between what is claimed as "optimized" on these forums and "subpar", and there is an entire category in between--that of the normal character.

There is no such thing as a "normal" character, only normal for a campaign. If your teammates are optimized, you had better be as well. Nothing is more frustrating for everyone than having one character substantially weaker than the others, which is very likely to happen should any other character play a street sam, conjuration mage, rigger, ect. Basically, unaugmented adepts are less capable, on average, than the other archetypes.

[All4BigGuns]

That's just it, there is a difference between what is claimed as "optimized" on these forums and "subpar", and there is an entire category in between--that of the normal character.

There is no such thing as a "normal" character, only normal for a campaign. If your teammates are optimized, you had better be as well. Nothing is more frustrating for everyone than having one character substantially weaker than the others, which is very likely to happen should any other character play a street sam, conjuration mage, rigger, ect. Basically, unaugmented adepts are less capable, on average, than the other archetypes.

I guess I just look at it like this, only the Face really needs close to 20 dice in anything (except soak, but that is quite possible for a great many characters). For everything else, 14 or 15 is plenty, and that can be attained by an adept without hamstringing your Magic with implants.

[Scrit]

First off I have to say a lot of awesome input from views all across the board.
To the people that magic should be pure for a character yeah I agree my self. For the characters attitude that I am planning I feel that the augs match him. Not to mention he can still gain more magic by initation as others have mentioned. Yes most of his abilitys are for flavor for the idea that he his a martial artist.
Yes on a normal case his power points go over the normal. But there are rules to lower the cost of your magic abilitys via a way, in this case warriors way, and combined with geases. And yeah my GM has not said anything about the coffee bit for that one. Would probably be better if I made it to we're he can't eat anything with caffeine in it which would make his diet very selective on days he needs the 4 IPs.
And for what my GM normally throws at us this character should be able to soak up the damage, not everyone is running around with high caliber weapons or using armor piercing rounds lol. Normally we face huge magical threats with some muscle their to keep the spell slingers alive. So his armor from the swat armor and mystical armor give him good armor but then add in his body ad he has about a 23 dice pool to resist damage which unless I'm mistaken from my past experiences and all is pretty nice in the long run.

The weapon and armor mods are some great advice that I think he might go with as future choices during gameplay. Specially since as I mentioned a lot of this is above the normal that a character can gear him self with.

Lastly I don't want to get the synaptic booster because at that point I feel that would be too much of a drop in the characters magic. I'd rather have his IPs tied up in his magic.

And again thanks all for your input. It's got some things that I will look into for future additions with him for sure.

[All4BigGuns]

First off I have to say a lot of awesome input from views all across the board.
To the people that magic should be pure for a character yeah I agree my self. For the characters attitude that I am planning I feel that the augs match him. Not to mention he can still gain more magic by initation as others have mentioned. Yes most of his abilitys are for flavor for the idea that he his a martial artist.
Yes on a normal case his power points go over the normal. But there are rules to lower the cost of your magic abilitys via a way, in this case warriors way, and combined with geases. And yeah my GM has not said anything about the coffee bit for that one. Would probably be better if I made it to we're he can't eat anything with caffeine in it which would make his diet very selective on days he needs the 4 IPs.
And for what my GM normally throws at us this character should be able to soak up the damage, not everyone is running around with high caliber weapons or using armor piercing rounds lol. Normally we face huge magical threats with some muscle their to keep the spell slingers alive. So his armor from the swat armor and mystical armor give him good armor but then add in his body ad he has about a 23 dice pool to resist damage which unless I'm mistaken from my past experiences and all is pretty nice in the long run.

The weapon and armor mods are some great advice that I think he might go with as future choices during gameplay. Specially since as I mentioned a lot of this is above the normal that a character can gear him self with.

Lastly I don't want to get the synaptic booster because at that point I feel that would be too much of a drop in the characters magic. I'd rather have his IPs tied up in his magic.

And again thanks all for your input. It's got some things that I will look into for future additions with him for sure.

I definitely think it would be best to only use the Way for cost mitigation, as depending on the GM in question, the Geasa may end up just being used to shut you down entirely because a GM can just force you into a situation where it's impossible to perform any of them, thus robbing you of what powers you do have.

[foolofsound]

I definitely think it would be best to only use the Way for cost mitigation, as depending on the GM in question, the Geasa may end up just being used to shut you down entirely because a GM can just force you into a situation where it's impossible to perform any of them, thus robbing you of what powers you do have.

Your DM can also just kill of your character. A GM who actively tries to put you into situations that violate your geasa is a poor GM; on the other hand, players do have a responsibility to select geasa that CAN be violated in certain, rare situations.

[Scrit]

I definitely think it would be best to only use the Way for cost mitigation, as depending on the GM in question, the Geasa may end up just being used to shut you down entirely because a GM can just force you into a situation where it's impossible to perform any of them, thus robbing you of what powers you do have.

Your DM can also just kill of your character. A GM who actively tries to put you into situations that violate your geasa is a poor GM; on the other hand, players do have a responsibility to select geasa that CAN be violated in certain, rare situations.

Yeah because he could send us to an Arabic or Turkish Country for an artifact hunt, and if your at a formal event or bartering etc it's offensive to reject the offer of a drink such as coffee and could depending on the person or situation result in a fight if you don't accept it.

[foolofsound]

Yeah because he could send us to an Arabic or Turkish Country for an artifact hunt, and if your at a formal event or bartering etc it's offensive to reject the offer of a drink such as coffee and could depending on the person or situation result in a fight if you don't accept it.

True enough. A geas against caffeine would probably be perfectly acceptable; it's pretty ubiquitous.

[Scrit]

Yeah because he could send us to an Arabic or Turkish Country for an artifact hunt, and if your at a formal event or bartering etc it's offensive to reject the offer of a drink such as coffee and could depending on the person or situation result in a fight if you don't accept it.

True enough. A geas against caffeine would probably be perfectly acceptable; it's pretty ubiquitous.

Indeed. I'll have to switch that part around and my GM I'm sure will agree with me as its a better limitation. I'll have to look up again on what natural an processed foods contain caffeine though because I know he'd have during RP a character offer mine an item that naturally has small amounts of caffeine in them.