[All4BigGuns]

I'm sure a wageslave has more than the gangers edge pool of 0-1.

Maybe pool 2 or 3 to be drawn on by ALL of the NPCs in the session--if that. Edge, IMO, is supposed to be the thing that PCs have that NPCs don't have for those times when it's absolutely necessary.

[Zilfer]

I'm sure a wageslave has more than the gangers edge pool of 0-1.

Maybe pool 2 or 3 to be drawn on by ALL of the NPCs in the session--if that. Edge, IMO, is supposed to be the thing that PCs have that NPCs don't have for those times when it's absolutely necessary.

no no no no no.... read the rules again. That's per team. So for example they face gangers early in the session 0-1 edge sure. They go on to find the gangers had something way over their head and want to go sell it on their own. They are attacked by red samurai 5-6 edge, and they get out of that ok, then the next group is some Errant Knight who got wind of them being around and they are wanted. They are about 3-4 edge if i remember right in the book? Something like that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say even if it was only 1 pool for the ENTIRE SESSION edging on a mage roll is probably going to be one of the best bets against the PC's to make it a bit challenging.

[foolofsound]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say even if it was only 1 pool for the ENTIRE SESSION edging on a mage roll is probably going to be one of the best bets against the PC's to make it a bit challenging.

A Force 10 surprise Stunball counts as "challenge"? I'd say it counts more as "Abort Mission Now!".

I maintain that a wagemage is unlikely to be willing to intentionally injure himself in the line of duty (ie overcasting), unless he is in personal danger, or is a fanatic. I personally don't let my mooks spend group Edge unless some dramatic tension to the action (saving self/comrade, last ditch effort, ect.). I would never open with an Edged attack against a player or players, though I might use one to set the scene (pierce a natural gas line, ect.).

[All4BigGuns]

I'm sure a wageslave has more than the gangers edge pool of 0-1.

Maybe pool 2 or 3 to be drawn on by ALL of the NPCs in the session--if that. Edge, IMO, is supposed to be the thing that PCs have that NPCs don't have for those times when it's absolutely necessary.

no no no no no.... read the rules again. That's per team. So for example they face gangers early in the session 0-1 edge sure. They go on to find the gangers had something way over their head and want to go sell it on their own. They are attacked by red samurai 5-6 edge, and they get out of that ok, then the next group is some Errant Knight who got wind of them being around and they are wanted. They are about 3-4 edge if i remember right in the book? Something like that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say even if it was only 1 pool for the ENTIRE SESSION edging on a mage roll is probably going to be one of the best bets against the PC's to make it a bit challenging.

The problem with it being a separate pool for each team of antagonists is the GMs who Edge every NPC roll that goes against a player (or even those who do it to "counter" a player's Edge expenditure). It would be far better, IMO, if Edge were just plain stated in the rule books that NPCs could not use Edge, ever. Sure it's one less tool for a good GM, but why should GMs not lose something because of bad ones when players lose things because of bad ones all the time?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

A bad GM won't follow your advice.  A good GM is gauging his table.

All game rules are designed suggestions; the good GM is already using Edge the way it's meant to be used.

[foolofsound]

The problem with it being a separate pool for each team of antagonists is the GMs who Edge every NPC roll that goes against a player (or even those who do it to "counter" a player's Edge expenditure). It would be far better, IMO, if Edge were just plain stated in the rule books that NPCs could not use Edge, ever. Sure it's one less tool for a good GM, but why should GMs not lose something because of bad ones when players lose things because of bad ones all the time?

A bad GM can screw up any rule. Heck, they don't even need to screw up the rules to screw up the game, poorly planned and executed sessions are just as likely to screw up a game as poor rule interpretation. The rules shouldn't make concessions for bad GMs. Bad GMs shouldn't GM until they learn how to GM appropriately.

[Unahim]

... But they need to GM to learn, at least to some extent.

Wagemages are likely to also have some sort of visible focus (most traditions' foci are either fairly apparent, or else require manipulation to use);

True, but the book specifically states that a mage can use anything for a focus. Wagemages make plenty of sacrifices for their employer, and using a focus that is inconspicous seems a likely one.

[JustADude]

... But they need to GM to learn, at least to some extent.

Wagemages are likely to also have some sort of visible focus (most traditions' foci are either fairly apparent, or else require manipulation to use);

True, but the book specifically states that a mage can use anything for a focus. Wagemages make plenty of sacrifices for their employer, and using a focus that is inconspicous seems a likely one.

Agreed.

Probably the only thing telling them apart in the seriously high-end fights is the fact that they've got Rating 3 Mobility Enhancement on their Heavy Milspec Armor and a patch or tab.

[FuelDrop]

It's actually a lot easier to spot the mage in a group than that.

just get your hacker to check which one has spell formulas stored on their commlink. That's your sniper's first target.

[Unahim]

Why would they store spell formulas on their commlinks? Especially if they, like pretty much everyone, have seperate ones when on the job.

[Redmercury]

Especially if they come from a tradition that doesn't tend towards using matrix formulae. Granted most wagemages do. It's cheaper to train them and the terminology is more standardized. Unahim has a point about having separate comlinks. Mages are harder to replace, and more expensive to train for corps, so you can bet they'll be well versed in survival protocol.

[Unahim]

The best technological defense against magic continues to be tinted windows ^^

[Mirikon]

Easiest way to spot the mage? Have your mage take a look-see on the astral. Anyone who glows, blast them. How many corpsec mages do you think keep masking up all the time?

[Zilfer]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say even if it was only 1 pool for the ENTIRE SESSION edging on a mage roll is probably going to be one of the best bets against the PC's to make it a bit challenging.

A Force 10 surprise Stunball counts as "challenge"? I'd say it counts more as "Abort Mission Now!".

I maintain that a wagemage is unlikely to be willing to intentionally injure himself in the line of duty (ie overcasting), unless he is in personal danger, or is a fanatic. I personally don't let my mooks spend group Edge unless some dramatic tension to the action (saving self/comrade, last ditch effort, ect.). I would never open with an Edged attack against a player or players, though I might use one to set the scene (pierce a natural gas line, ect.).

F10 Stun ball is hardly scary when cast by a wageslave if you have counter spelling. If you don't have a mage, then you have two options shoot that mage before he sees you or gets a turn. (your supposed to do that anyways) or abort because you have no magic support. It's just like when a F10 spirit shows up, go big or go home. (Yeah.... I remember fighting 4 of those suckers being the mage on the team I had to eat plenty of high spells for Drain)

Also All4BigGuns, your right you should not edge all the time I've played against a DM that did that. He gave low gangers like edge pools of 4 and used it like 6 times. <.< I've also had a different DM who introduce us not understand the rules and edge a dice pool of 30 and only get 3 hits, then spent edge to reroll them and only got 2 more additional hits. (unlucky!) So he edged one last time, saying the Dragon had 6 edge. (yes.... dragon on our second game. XD) (needless to say my Slivergun called shot burst fire (Base 12DV) with an additional 12 hits probably should have killed that dragon. xD It's soak rolls sucked. xD

The key is using edge to further the goal of the group that your playing. They have edge at their disposal why wouldn't they use it? I also allow spirits to use edge when I think the player's treated the spirit well enough that they "want" to succeed. Guess it's personal preference.

[Mirikon]

Just remember that if your mage loses LOS from you, then they can't counterspell for you until you're back in LOS and they redeclare it. Even so, yes, a F10 Stunball is going to put a major hurt on a party, and probably take most of them out, unless your mage is a counterspelling specialist.