[cyclonus743]

So i have a buddy (the power gamer of our group) who is wanting to run a game and is wanting us to all start out as prime runners. i'm trying to figure out how much karma to suggest to him because his first suggestion was insane. We have in the past seen a table where they break down how much karma say a veteran runner would have compared to a prime runner. No me and the other guys who have run games can't seem to find it. Because i don't want to lowball the guy so he can run the high powered game of his dreams but his original idea was of course insane so we really need a guide.

[Ympulse]

Define "insane", 3k? 4k?  "Let's all be Great Dragons, because fuck it, why not"?

[JustADude]

Based on Missions (the official Living Campaign) the threshold for "Prime Runner" sits right at 150 Karma, usually accompanied by about 250,000¥ - 300,000¥ Nuyen in "Lifetime Earnings" if the players have been smart.

I'd really suggest doing Grand Karmagen rules over BP, though. That is to say, the "German Errata" / "Revised" rules (pay for Metatypes, Attributes are New x5, etc) with 1000 Karma to spread around.

I'd also suggest bumping up the Availability to 20 "base" and 34 with Restricted Gear. That should get you right around the same "benchmark" of power, since once you're in play you'd be quickly discarding a lot of your Availability 12 gear.

[cyclonus743]

His first thought was 600 on top of 400 bp.

[JustADude]

His first thought was 600 on top of 400 bp.

Oh great galloping gumdrops!

That's not a Prime Runner, that's someone that belongs in Street Legends!

[GhostWriter]

That's Captain Chaos and FastJack kind of legendary ain't it?

[JustADude]

That's Captain Chaos and FastJack kind of legendary ain't it?

Yes, indeed, it is most definitely in serious "Why aren't these guys already dead, working for Lofwyr, or retired and living on a private island somewhere?" territory.

Especially if the 600 Karma is considered "in play" and the the CGen rules and limits don't apply, and double-especially if they're allowed to convert part of it to cash.

For example, take a Magician. 13 Karma to Initiate and lean Ally Conjuration, and you can then buy a half-dozen Force 12 Ally Spirits for 96 Karma each, and still have 11 Karma left over... not that you need much else when you've got a half-dozen Force 12 Ally Spirits on tap.

[cyclonus743]

LOL Which is why i said he needs help.

[Ethan]

400 BP to start with and say 20-50 Karma to play around with after chargen. Usually, it's for Initiating purposes and buying some Metamagics/Echos.

Hell, you can get really powerful (though narrowly focused) characters at just 400 BP.

[Mirikon]

400 BP to start, and 20-100 karma would be a good range for a 'prime runner'.

[Mantis]

I'll just chime in and say and say Prime Runners should be around 200+ karma. I know missions, which is probably where you saw the karma table you refer to, suggests 150+, but after having both run and played in 350+ karma campaigns, 20-100 just doesn't cut it. Just bear in mind that no matter what amount of karma your GM finally settles on, if there is no challenge, there is no fun. For us, even at 350 karma, there was still plenty of challenge and fun. At no point did it feel like we had broken the game and it really let us try many of the options available in the game that you will never get to at a lower karma level. By that, I mean you can do things in one character that you would have to split up over different characters at a lower karma level.
And before someone leaps up with "power gamer", we are not. Sure, our game finished with high dice pools but it didn't start there (I think 14 or so was the highest to start).

[lonewolf1210]

Im just now playing in a forum game that has started with 650BP characters and some small modifications to allow to spend BPs for initiation and raising all those limitations to more suitable levels.
As far as I can tell right now, it seems to work out quite well