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Questions / Notes from Clutch of Dragons …War at 10,000 meters

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Black

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« on: <10-25-12/0451:57> »
Hi All,  this is just my notes from the first chaper of Clucth of Dragons.  I have, but have not read, all the 4th ed setting books, so maybe I am missing knowledge.  But I thought I would share my notes and questions on the first chapter:

Questions / Notes from Clutch of Dragons …War at 10,000 meters   

Quote
“forty of Humanis’ and Alamos 20K’s chapterhouses in Seattle, Los Angeles, London, DeeCee, Paris, Frankfurt, Moscow, and Miami have been attacked.”
[/spoiler]

Ok, Humanis is a legal organisation, but Alamos 20k is a terrorist organisation.  I suspect that they do not have ‘chapterhouses’… maybe safehouses, or cells?

Quote
“Since this confl ict has started heating up, nearly eighty alleged members of Human Nation have been identified,
many of whom are in positions of power. The biggest names so far have been UCAS Secretary of the Treasury Brenda Ogawa, CAS Vice President Lowery Grimes, Mitsuhama shareholder Shin Yuruyasu, and Wuxing shareholder James Harper-Smythe. And I’m certain more will be identified as Human Nation conspirators as time goes on and as these groups continue to dig.”
[/spoiler]

Ok, what is the actual status of Human Nation in 2072?  Once they were a chapter in a Threats book, a rumoured organisation, the illuminati of racist terror groups.  Now they are an actual ‘thing’?  And if so, what’s their legal status?  Surely, regardless of legal status, the CAS Vice President and the UCAS Secretary of Treasury?  Some big names!  I would expect resignations and other political fallout… maybe?

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“GeMiTo”

Maybe I’m a bit slow, but I have no idea where this is? Europe by the rest of the text, but where?  Italy maybe…?

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“If this number has remained consistent over the last six months, GeMiTo could actually have seen the loss of a staggering fifty-four thousand metahumans since Alamais arrived in the city.”

OMG!  Fifty-four thousand metahumans killed… actually eaten!  You have got to freakin be kidding?  This is massive, even in Shadowrun.  That’s a lot of dead civilians, eaten at that.  Followed by…

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“In public, these deaths have not been reported in order to avoid an all-out panic.”

And this I find hard to believe.  With the number of organisations trying to build up anti-dragon movements, including Aztechnology, the number one or two of PR, I find it hard to believe that word of this has not leaked.  Even through shadow channels, escaped refugees from the city, something.  How are the Dragons keeping a whole city under control?  And what would Europe’s reaction be to such a massive slaughter, the largest in sometime.  And people are getting eaten!  Eaten!  Freakin’ hell! [/spoiler]

Quote
“Calozerca”

Who is Calozerca?

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“He added, though, that as a member of the academic community, his role in the “civil war” was to remain one of neutrality”

This quote is about Schwarzkopf.  Did he actually call it a ‘civil war’ in public?  Does this growing conflict between various dragon factions (the number of ‘factions’ is almost as numerous as actual greats) actually equate to a civil war?  Has Hestaby actually challenged Lowfyr for rulership of dragonkind?  She has gone against tradition, and she and Lowfyr have had a few indirect spats, but for a great to actually call it a civil war implies a lot more than just a disagreement…[/spoiler]

Quote
“Pobre”

The Aztlan dragon.  I don’t think his a great…. Is he?  And perhaps his not as toxic as rumours suggest?
Quote
“There are definitely some interesting happenings in the UCAS Sector beyond all the UCAS military personnel being withdrawn from the Zone Defense Force while staying in Denver.”
[/spoiler]

Just quoting this because its worth noting.  Looks like the PCC will dominate the ZDF and the UCAS will withdraw its forces.  Wonder what CAS and the Sioux are doing?  Looks like the ZDF is more and more GW’s own army…

Like to see more on what happens to the STC now.  Also, like the ‘no summoning’ rule in Denver, will make runs more interesting. Finally, let’s have more info on what’s really happening at the Denver Data Haven.

Who owns Roswell now?  It’s in Texas isn’t it… no Aztlan?

Quote
“Sirrurg has also razed the CAS cities of Odessa, Lubbock, Midland, and Seminole. Each of the attacks left similar amounts of casualties and destruction in their wake. Sirrurg has also hit the PCC, choosing to hit the Albuquerque sprawl. Nearly a thousand were killed in Sirrurg’s attack on Albuquerque”

A thousand casualties from a full on Dragon attack isn’t so bad.  But I get he did other things as well which may have shaken up a lot more people.  That said, I would have thought that the PCC and CAS would have allied with Aztlan to deal with the threat… but no… it looks like CAS want to go to war against Aztlan to get to the dragon.  Yep, I can see how that twisted logic will lead to nothing but loss of life and property.[/spoiler]

Quote
“Despite Pueblo not being as willing to go to war over Sirrurg’s actions—they see it as something that Aztlan has no
control over—the CAS is not backing back down on its threats.”
[/spoiler]

At least the PCC aren’t idiots. CAS?  Could be because they have a Human Nation vice president?  Or something else?  Otherwise, seems kinda poor logic to invade a country to get a te..  okay, I see that logic, but Aztlan has lost a ton of special forces etc. trying to take down the same bad guy.  Surely they aren’t the enemy this time?

Ok, that’s my notes, questions etc. from the first chapter.  Generally a good read, but pretty confusing sometimes.  Hard to keep track of whose who, and with the dragons, whose working with whom etc.  I think Hestaby is losing, but then Lowfyr seems to have a ton of issues he needs to resolve, asap.  The Sirrug stuff doesn’t seem right, CAS seem too eager to go to war with someone who is actually on their side.  Just saying, only my opinion.
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Longshot23

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« Reply #1 on: <10-25-12/0544:18> »
Early days as yet.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #2 on: <10-25-12/1030:38> »
It's hard to say that the CAS and Aztlan are ever on  the same side. :) Sirrurg is in Aztlan territory, blowing up Azzies, but also flying over the border to attack CAS and PCC turf.

PCC, "You have to stop this."
Aztlan: "We're trying! He just ate another unit."
PCC: "Well... keep at it. *grumble* We'll try and keep our people calm."

CAS: "You have to stop this!"
Aztlan: "We're trying! He just ate another unit."
CAS: "Not good enough, you bastards! If you don't send more men, WE will!"

That is one hot triangle down there.

Ethan

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« Reply #3 on: <10-25-12/1412:10> »
GeMiTo is Genova, Milan, and Torino all linked together in some mediterranean mess. And there is a worldwide conspiracy to limit the knowledge of these dragon attacks. Now, whether or not the conspirators are one group or many they may have vastly different goals: limit panic so as not to provoke the dragons or force the dragons' hands into committing more unignorable attacks for an eventual reprisal.

Chapterhouses work if Alamos 20K is broken up into cells and is also a bit... fanatical.

Mirikon

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« Reply #4 on: <10-25-12/1500:50> »
It is simple, really. Panic by metahumans that dragons are showing their superiority will demand a reprisal from governments and megacorps to keep their citizens happy. Because mass panic is historically one of the best causes of revolution. People are frightened, and they lash out. And they usually lash out at those in power, who aren't keeping them from being scared. Now, I'm not saying this would actually topple any major governments or megas, but it is bad for business, yeah?

And any retaliation by metahumans would demand dragon reprisals in turn. That path leads quickly to all out war with the dragons, and no one is exactly sure that they would be able to kill a great dragon right now, unless they get another dragon to join them.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #5 on: <10-26-12/2340:53> »
GeMiTo (Italy) has its own short section in Feral Cities, but the long and short of it is that it's basically a Barrens covering several hundred square kilometers, with a population of ten million and nobody in charge - for almost forty years.  You could lose a couple hundred a day each from just Seattle's Barren areas and not make a real dent in its population.  While 100,000 (estimated) a year is a lot, and it's a solid 1% of the population ... people who don't pay taxes don't get attention paid back to them.  Also, remember that this is a 'maximal estimate' - not a real, hard number.

Calozerca, as I recall, is an adult non-Great dragon who awoke in Poland and has been active on and off in Eastern Europe.  I think, but may be incorrect, that he has a lair in the Caucuses.

I do NOT believe Schwartzkopf himself used the term - what we're getting is, after all, a summation of a press release.  However, if he did use it, note the quotes around the term; this would indicate that he's using the term that the people who are asking him questions are using, not that he necessarily considers it to actually be such a thing.  Consider the quotes replacing the words 'so-called'.  "My role in the so-called civil war is to remain one of neutrality."
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Black

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« Reply #6 on: <10-27-12/0024:24> »
It's hard to say that the CAS and Aztlan are ever on  the same side. :) Sirrurg is in Aztlan territory, blowing up Azzies, but also flying over the border to attack CAS and PCC turf.

PCC, "You have to stop this."
Aztlan: "We're trying! He just ate another unit."
PCC: "Well... keep at it. *grumble* We'll try and keep our people calm."

CAS: "You have to stop this!"
Aztlan: "We're trying! He just ate another unit."
CAS: "Not good enough, you bastards! If you don't send more men, WE will!"

That is one hot triangle down there.

Thanks Wak for the explanation.  Despite the CAS grandstaning, I don't think they would go to war over something Aztlan cant control... unless they are just looking for an excuse... maybe...
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Black

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« Reply #7 on: <10-27-12/0029:50> »
GeMiTo is Genova, Milan, and Torino all linked together in some mediterranean mess. And there is a worldwide conspiracy to limit the knowledge of these dragon attacks. Now, whether or not the conspirators are one group or many they may have vastly different goals: limit panic so as not to provoke the dragons or force the dragons' hands into committing more unignorable attacks for an eventual reprisal

Oh, I get why the power that be might want to limit the fallout.  And GeMiTo is a massive sprawling barren (thanks all for the update, no idea otherwise, very much appreicated)...  but the powers that be can only control so much.  Word always gets out.  wether via the Matrix or via refugees from the city talking about horror stories of Dragons hunting people.  The residents of GeMiTo must be abolutely terrified.  I did wonder how the Dragons kept control of the citty, but now I get the impression that they don't instead using the city as one big hunting ground.

Still pretty horrifing. I would still think that something like this will leak to the public eventually and it will cause an outcry on a global scale.
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Black

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« Reply #8 on: <10-27-12/0032:05> »
I do NOT believe Schwartzkopf himself used the term - what we're getting is, after all, a summation of a press release.  However, if he did use it, note the quotes around the term; this would indicate that he's using the term that the people who are asking him questions are using, not that he necessarily considers it to actually be such a thing.  Consider the quotes replacing the words 'so-called'.  "My role in the so-called civil war is to remain one of neutrality."

Hmm... that would be better.  Wouldn't think he would actually call it a civil war, or even if they concept really exist as such in Dragon society.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #9 on: <10-27-12/0751:54> »
Thanks Wak for the explanation.  Despite the CAS grandstaning, I don't think they would go to war over something Aztlan cant control... unless they are just looking for an excuse... maybe...
The CAS has been looking for an excuse since Aztlan took a chunk out of Texas decades ago.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #10 on: <10-27-12/1540:46> »
Thanks Wak for the explanation.  Despite the CAS grandstaning, I don't think they would go to war over something Aztlan cant control... unless they are just looking for an excuse... maybe...
The CAS has been looking for an excuse since Aztlan took a chunk out of Texas decades ago.

Well, more Texas has been looking for an excuse. The rest of the CAS, not so much. (And you'd think that the Texans would realize that, you know, the reason they don't have half of Texas is because teh Azzies kicked their ass and took it from them, but, rage is rarely rational.)

Lacynth40

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« Reply #11 on: <10-27-12/2204:01> »

Still pretty horrifing. I would still think that something like this will leak to the public eventually and it will cause an outcry on a global scale.

Indeed... It will probably leak to the public RIGHT as Lofwyr and the rest of that board meeting does something about it. You know, coincidentally... Heh.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #12 on: <10-27-12/2329:03> »

Still pretty horrifing. I would still think that something like this will leak to the public eventually and it will cause an outcry on a global scale.

Indeed... It will probably leak to the public RIGHT as Lofwyr and the rest of that board meeting does something about it. You know, coincidentally... Heh.

It's international news. The local media doesn't often report on that sort of thing.

After all, LOOK! Aztechnology's getting ready to roll out a new slate of NERPS! Woo hoo! And, OMG, did you see what Teiko-chan was wearing on the trid last night? That was a new outfit from Horizon's Top of the Tops line! And those glasses are to DIE for! Squeeee!!!

Crimsondude

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« Reply #13 on: <10-28-12/0211:09> »
No one gave a shit when 800,000 Rwandans were butchered. Why would anyone in SR care about a bunch of Italian, at best, squatters in what is basically Northern Somalia?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #14 on: <10-28-12/0228:36> »
... I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. What was that about Italian gelatto?
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