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Questions / Notes from Clutch of Dragons …War at 10,000 meters

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Nath

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« Reply #105 on: <11-15-12/1850:18> »
That said, obviously the newsd did get out despite the grand corporate and co conspiracy. See the quote from Naths post above.
Close, but no cigar, Black. That quote means that business leaders and government officials in GeMiTo are calling the S-K office in Essen looking for Lofwyr to smack his brother around again. It doesn't mean that people at large are reacting to it, or know there's a feeding frenzy on.
He says "people know" and you answer "people don't care". You can both be right at the same time. It was the entire point of the comparisons to Rwanda, Mexico or whatever to show an information can get out and be spread by medias, and yet cause no or limited reactions from the public opinion.

It has been argued information could be hard to put together. The quote tell us a number of local political and business leaders know and are obviously worried. It has been argued people inside Gemito would lack comunication channels for the information to go out. The quote tell us hundred of them are calling S-K offices in Essen.

Yet, there are no indication the story received any coverage from major media. Do the medias know? The Twilight Horizon states Horizon had hints at what is going on. Saeder-Krupp, as well as a number of AA corporations also have the information, and have or may have medias subsidiaries. I would also expect some of the politicians and businessmen that get no answer from Saeder-Krupp would try to call the medias instead, hoping this could force Lofwyr into action.

Do the medias broadcast the information? That is the first unknown. Unless the Corporate Court acts quickly with a gag order, you probably can't prevent some editor-in-chief to jump on such a story to come ahead in the information race. As I said earlier, I think Aztechnology should find this story useful.
How many people would be exposed to the story? How many people would care? Open to debate. It would depend on if and how fast a gag order comes into effect, if it gets out on the same day that another major event (though in my opinion, none of the last books mentionned any event I would consider big enough to mask this story), and how dystopian is your Shadowrun. At least until a book provides a canon answer to this.

Mirikon

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« Reply #106 on: <11-15-12/1905:16> »
Oh, there's a really simple reason for why there'd be a gag order in effect. You know which corp is leading the Court's crisis team this term? Saeder-Krupp. Yes, the corp headed by a great dragon is in charge of managing the Corporate Court's response to the dragon civil war.
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Nath

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« Reply #107 on: <11-16-12/1926:52> »
It can help, but it's nowhere simple. A committee chairmanship is different from a command. Even in a critical situation such as System Failure, the Crisis Coordination Committee held a session only after the Corporate Court voted, to decide the practical implementation of the decision. Maybe the crash aftermath prompted the court to change how the C5 works, but the committee still ought to feature representatives from several corporations (it wouldn't be a committee otherwise). A chairman has some extra responsabilities that may give him more influence, but he cannot decide alone.

Mirikon

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« Reply #108 on: <11-16-12/2116:31> »
Yes, the C5 was revamped after System Failure, gaining teeth, and a more... proactive stance to things that harm the business world at large. Note the last phrase there. We're talking about a localized event, that hasn't had any major effect on the megacorps outside the effected area. And you are right that being chairman doesn't give S-K supreme ruler rights, but the fact is that the chairman sets the agenda. And it is easy to argue the rule of precedence. "If we get involved because something nasty is happening in GeMiTo, why not clean up Lagos? Or deal with Chicago? Or respond to every little natural disaster?" Think of the lost profits if the Court responds to every little problem in the world. The C5 is for dealing with major threats, like Winternight, or people like Artie-boy, who are successfully destroying A & AA corps, and working on AAA corps.
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Nath

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« Reply #109 on: <11-17-12/0927:46> »
Yes, the C5 was revamped after System Failure, gaining teeth, and a more... proactive stance to things that harm the business world at large.
The Clutch of Dragons does mention page 47 the C5 has been turned into a permanent body after 2064. However, it wouldn't guarantee it became more efficient and effective in any way (even though the 2065-2069 period was somewhat calm, the C5 would have had to grab even minor cases to justify its existence and budget, and those would keep on accumulating over the years). The Clutch of Dragons also mentions page 14 the C5 "has been called to monitor this "dragon situation" for the Corporate Court" (in this context, it's the "dragon situation" at large, not just Alamais). The passive voice suggests the C5 is not acting on its own, but you could also argue the intended meaning was "its current chairman has called the C5 to monitor this "dragon situation"". Or simply that, since it's a Jackpointer comment, it can be dismissed as an uninformed statement (though that can be said of almost everything in the book actually, and it wouldn't leave us much to discuss). Anyway, if the C5 is mandated for all current dragons activities, Alamais' would be in, without any extra step required from the chairman.

We're talking about a localized event, that hasn't had any major effect on the megacorps outside the effected area.
Lobbing a Thor shot at a dragon in Gemito would be dealing with a localized event. Enacting a gag order on information that would affect the public opinion on dragons in medias worldwide is dealing with a global event. But probably not one that should have any major effect on the megacorps.

And you are right that being chairman doesn't give S-K supreme ruler rights, but the fact is that the chairman sets the agenda.
The problem is, there are five other justices that sit on the committee besides the chairman. Even if the chairman decide to add Gemito situation in the agenda, the committee can still decide to do strictly nothing. Common sense would suggest a decision require a simple majority, with the Chairman eventually getting an extra vote when there is a draw. So, he still needs to convince at least two other justices. If it happens that there are a Neonet and a MCT justices on the committee at the moment, it may not be a problem, if Celedyr and Ryumyo supports the move. Otherwise, S-K may have to be more politically-savvy to get the vote going its way. So, anyway, this goes beyond S-K simply having the chairmanship. It does help, but it's not the end of it.

There's a reason it's a committee with several rotating memberships, and not a command. Whatever power you vest into a S-K chairman will be, by the virtue of rotation, in the hands of an Aztechnology chairman at some point. You'd say an Aztechnology C5 chairman wouldn't be left as much leeway as S-K, which means it's not the chairmanship alone that count, but a much more complicated political game behind the scenes.

And it is easy to argue the rule of precedence. "If we get involved because something nasty is happening in GeMiTo, why not clean up Lagos? Or deal with Chicago? Or respond to every little natural disaster?" Think of the lost profits if the Court responds to every little problem in the world. The C5 is for dealing with major threats, like Winternight, or people like Artie-boy, who are successfully destroying A & AA corps, and working on AAA corps.
Exactly. I would actually expect every justices on the committee that doesn't belong to S-K, and possibly Neonet and MCT (that is, between 3 and 5 members, out of 6) to bring such arguments up. The C5 is for lobbing Thor shots at major direct threats for the megacorporate economy (though System Failure mentions a full court vote on Dankwalther). Not for enacting worldwide gag order to prevent the apparition of a possible minor nuisance to a handful of megacorporate shareholders.

By setting such a precedent, S-K is opening the door for the C5 to be (ab)used by any group of three corporations that happen to be on the committee at the same time (alliances such as MCT-Shiawase-Renraku and Ares-Aztechnology-Wuxing comes to mind) for their sole interests. It must be compared to the Corporate Court proper, where 7 votes out of 13 are required to secure a vote. That is, a minimum of four corporations (only if S-K, Ares and MCT, with 2 justices each as of Corporate Guide happens to vote together, and more probably six or seven corporations, out of ten.

Actually, if Lofwyr wanted C5 to be disbanded, that gag order would be the way to go.

Longshot23

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« Reply #110 on: <11-30-12/0337:08> »
Completely different part of CoD: I'll now be waiting on a meeting between Harlequin and Domingo Ramos . . .

Wakshaani

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« Reply #111 on: <11-30-12/0345:29> »
Be careful what you wish for as you just might get it.

(Insert Pussycat Dolls dance routine here.)

Longshot23

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« Reply #112 on: <11-30-12/0351:25> »
Ahhhhh . . . wish-fulfilment . . .  better than novacoke . . . . <snort>

TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #113 on: <12-18-12/0734:09> »
As a small observation, if Aztlan/Aztechnology did manage to really annoy the Dragons, it would would not long for the sixth world. Getting the Greats focused and Agrey with you is not a idea for long term health.

It would be kinda cool to see the Dragons go primate on Aztlan back the Mexican rebels as well as start trashing the magical network that the Smoking Mirror has created...
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

--Miracle Of Sound, City Of Night

Mirikon

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« Reply #114 on: <12-18-12/1033:01> »
Burn the entire country to ash. Leave nothing alive.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #115 on: <12-18-12/1040:16> »
What's Aztlan ever done to you? They're just an ordinary nation, wanting to enjoy the fruits of their society, and seeking a resolution to that awful kerfluffle down south. And, you know, eat. Some food would be nice. You wouldn't happen to have a million tons of wheat lying around, would you? For an old pal?

Sichr

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« Reply #116 on: <12-18-12/1049:08> »
Burn the entire country to ash. Leave nothing alive.

Raze. Burn. Piss on ashes. Salt the ground.

Mirikon

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« Reply #117 on: <12-18-12/1125:21> »
What's Aztlan ever done to you? They're just an ordinary nation, wanting to enjoy the fruits of their society, and seeking a resolution to that awful kerfluffle down south. And, you know, eat. Some food would be nice. You wouldn't happen to have a million tons of wheat lying around, would you? For an old pal?
Their existing is enough. Destroying the entire country would be counted as a service to metahumanity and the world at large.
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TheWanderingJewels

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« Reply #118 on: <12-18-12/1243:05> »
and somewhere, Verjigorm' is laughing...
Tech dreams of organic toys
And I'm runnin' out on the edge
Soft screams of the rockerboys
Echoing through my head

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CanRay

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« Reply #119 on: <12-18-12/1250:25> »
Raze. Burn. Piss on ashes. Salt the ground.
Thanks, now I'm homesick.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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