[Nath]

PS: if I recall correctly there is a way to get your essence back up after your 'ware is removed (some sort of gene therapy or other), but your magic stays permanently at the lower value unless you spent the karma to buy it back up.

Augmentation, pages 88-89
Revitalization
Revitalization is a recent breakthrough that repairs Essence loss derived from invasive implantation. Universal Omnitech is trying to keep the mechanism a secret, though geneticists have speculated that the effect is achieved by performing some kind of “genetic feng shui.” The theory is that scientists realign qi from astral shadows by genetically remodeling DNA to repair damage to the aura or balance to the body’s systems, and thus the patient regains Essence.
In game terms, revitalization regenerates the Essence “hole” left by the removal of an implant from the body. Revitalization is slow and Essence is restored by recurring gene therapy sessions at a rate of 0.1 Essence per month. Though Essence points lost to implantation, Energy Drain, and addiction may be restored through gene therapy, Magic/Resonance points lost are never returned and reductions to the maximum Magic/Resonance attribute remain in effect.

[Lotofsnow]

Thanks for this discussion as it is relevant to a decision I'm currently facing with my character. My sniper/mage recently came into enough nuyen to afford some very nice Bioware (Muscle Toner 4 & Cerebral Booster 3, both Betaware). I'm still up in the air due to the 30 karma cost to raise my magic back up to 6 after I have it installed (I'm already a grade 1 Initiate). Sustaining Foci are a lot cheaper.

[All4BigGuns]

Thanks for this discussion as it is relevant to a decision I'm currently facing with my character. My sniper/mage recently came into enough nuyen to afford some very nice Bioware (Muscle Toner 4 & Cerebral Booster 3, both Betaware). I'm still up in the air due to the 30 karma cost to raise my magic back up to 6 after I have it installed (I'm already a grade 1 Initiate). Sustaining Foci are a lot cheaper.

It's not. If you are Awakened, Just Say No to Ware.

[Whiskeyjack]

Sniper/Mage is an interesting combo that I honestly haven't seen before. Losing ~1 point of Magic for +4 Agi and +3 Logic (I assume you use a Logic-based Drain tradition like Hermetic or Islamic) is definitely a worthwhile trade-off especially if you wind up using those Agi-linked skills a lot, cast at high Force, and have invented in Log-linked skills.

[Lotofsnow]

Sniper/Mage is an interesting combo that I honestly haven't seen before. Losing ~1 point of Magic for +4 Agi and +3 Logic (I assume you use a Logic-based Drain tradition like Hermetic or Islamic) is definitely a worthwhile trade-off especially if you wind up using those Agi-linked skills a lot, cast at high Force, and have invented in Log-linked skills.

Yeah, my mage is manipulation focused, so the sniper rifle is simply to make sure he's not a one-trick pony. I've been told that there's nothing a sniper rifle can do that a manabolt can't, which is probably true, but I enjoy what I do. Missions that require sniper mean I pump my combat effectiveness with Increase Agility and Increased Reflexes in 2 health sustaining foci. For magic runs, I use those same foci to instead Increase Willpower and Logic (you're right, Hermetic), pop some psyche and eat the -1 dice pool modifier for keep Increased Reflexes up. This bioware would mean even less to worry about in regards to background count, wards, etc.

It's not. If you are Awakened, Just Say No to Ware.

I know what you're saying. Honestly, there's a decent chance that Benandanti XXV won't even let me get the augments.

[Kat9]

Thanks for this discussion as it is relevant to a decision I'm currently facing with my character. My sniper/mage recently came into enough nuyen to afford some very nice Bioware (Muscle Toner 4 & Cerebral Booster 3, both Betaware). I'm still up in the air due to the 30 karma cost to raise my magic back up to 6 after I have it installed (I'm already a grade 1 Initiate). Sustaining Foci are a lot cheaper.

Personally, I have never seen a problem with awakened having a little cyber. In older editions however, bioware was a pain in the butt. You could geasa cyber, but not bioware. Now you can just raise your magic attribute to your cap with karma? Yes please. I've got a technomancer and I have added a little 'pad' in with submersions, I'm going to grab a sleep regulator and a datajack. Both are in character choices, thinks he wants to get and has always been putting off. Given combat spells have a range of....the horizon..I wouldn't be in such a hurry to plug in muscle toner.

[All4BigGuns]

And there's something people often forget in the "quest for perfect math". It is supposed to be a slippery slope. Awakened person gets an implant for the "easy path" to power but finds himself weaker rather than stronger in his powers, so he gets more implants and finds himself even weaker, so forth and so on. Eventually they end up with no Talent left. Those who do it for the math though refuse to mess with that, they just Cheese their way through creation of a proof rather than a character.

[Kat9]

Those who do it for the math though refuse to mess with that, they just Cheese their way through creation of a proof rather than a character.

Sorry, was this a direct reply to me about my technomancer?

[Whiskeyjack]

And there's something people often forget in the "quest for perfect math". It is supposed to be a slippery slope. Awakened person gets an implant for the "easy path" to power but finds himself weaker rather than stronger in his powers, so he gets more implants and finds himself even weaker, so forth and so on. Eventually they end up with no Talent left. Those who do it for the math though refuse to mess with that, they just Cheese their way through creation of a proof rather than a character.

Or he gets the specific edge he wants that Magic won't or hadn't given him for whatever reason and is willing to accept one weakening (lower Magic at least in the short term) for a strength (much greater ability to shoot a gun). Getting a couple implants doesn't and shouldn't automatically force you to burn out your Talent.

Oh and much like recent political soundbites, your "bluhhh maths!!!" line is really stale. As if that method of building a character is inherently BadWrongFun/cheese/munchkinism/ROLLplay/etc. I realize it's your strong opinion that Awakened shouldn't get ware, but you're the only person I've ever seen who calls everyone who even considers it a moron who's Playing the Game Wrong.

[All4BigGuns]

Or he gets the specific edge he wants that Magic won't or hadn't given him for whatever reason and is willing to accept one weakening (lower Magic at least in the short term) for a strength (much greater ability to shoot a gun). Getting a couple implants doesn't and shouldn't automatically force you to burn out your Talent.

Oh and much like recent political soundbites, your "bluhhh maths!!!" line is really stale. As if that method of building a character is inherently BadWrongFun/cheese/munchkinism/ROLLplay/etc. I realize it's your strong opinion that Awakened shouldn't get ware, but you're the only person I've ever seen who calls everyone who even considers it a moron who's Playing the Game Wrong.

I don't call the people stupid, I call the act stupid. There is a rather large difference except in the eyes of people who have no other way to try and discredit other than to attack the voice.

[FastJack]

Do we need ANOTHER thread locked? We get it, you disagree. Take any arguments you have to Private Messages. Much as we might joke about it, we don't get our jollies from watching people saying "nuh-uh!/yea-huh!" back and forth.

[Kat9]

Once you have a head full of gray hair, does it turn back to its natural color?

[Mäx]

Yeah, my mage is manipulation focused, so the sniper rifle is simply to make sure he's not a one-trick pony. I've been told that there's nothing a sniper rifle can do that a manabolt can't, which is probably true, but I enjoy what I do.

It's not, sniper rifle allows much easier take down of drones and other high object resistance targets then a manabolt(well powerbolt, as manabolt cant affect non living targets at all).
Really if your not a focused combat mage(i mean a one that specializes on combat spells) a gun in general might be a better option then picking up a bunch of combat spells(stunbolt is still worth knowing for most mages, as a back-up if nothing else).
And know i think i "must" go and see what kind of a sniper/mage build i can come up with(not gonna lie, most likely will include atleast a points worth of ware), might end up going with assault cannons instead of sniper as i like the heavy weapons skill more in general.

[JustADude]

Yeah, my mage is manipulation focused, so the sniper rifle is simply to make sure he's not a one-trick pony. I've been told that there's nothing a sniper rifle can do that a manabolt can't, which is probably true, but I enjoy what I do.

It's not, sniper rifle allows much easier take down of drones and other high object resistance targets then a manabolt(well powerbolt, as manabolt cant affect non living targets at all).
Really if your not a focused combat mage(i mean a one that specializes on combat spells) a gun in general might be a better option then picking up a bunch of combat spells(stunbolt is still worth knowing for most mages, as a back-up if nothing else).
And know i think i "must" go and see what kind of a sniper/mage build i can come up with(not gonna lie, most likely will include atleast a points worth of ware), might end up going with assault cannons instead of sniper as i like the heavy weapons skill more in general.

You know, every time I think of Heavy Weapons sniping, I start hearing a certain AC/DC song in my head.

The Thunderstruck is insane. Just freakin' insane. Especially for someone who can cast Silence on themselves to nullify the sound of it firing.

[Mithlas]

Ninja'd by Nath. I seem to recall hearing during a 3rd edition game that there's also either an optional rule or common houserule that once 'ware is removed, the essence can slowly heal over time. That's probably not here in 4th edition, though.

Sounds like you've both got good combinations of character advancement and in-character reasoning behind a very simple aspect of upgrading - give up a little to get more of what you're aiming for. I never really understand why some people think Awakened/Resonant should never touch 'ware. I guess whatever floats your boat.