[Delahunt]

My group recently swapped over to Shadowrun, and so I'm learning a lot of the system as we're going along. The game is going well, but as we're coming up on their first interaction with a Johnson I'm left with the following conundrum: how much should the average run pay?

Now, obviously there is room for negotiations. Expecting a group to take on 30+ people will be more expensive than having them pick up Johnson's daughter at day care or something. But what are some good ballpark figures for how much a job should go for? My initial impression is somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple thousand, depending on danger level. But that could be quite a lot, or not much at all, depending on the person involved. Though, I suppose one Run paying for a couple of months living is about fair too...

Any input on this?

[JustADude]

Welcome to one of the most common questions people have.

As a "baseline" I'd start by picking a base daily pay rate per person... I go with 2,000¥... then multiply it by the Professional Level of the expected opposition (times 1/2 for PL 0), and then throw in another multiplier based on how you feel the Johnson would "spin" the mission. From there, just figure out how many days you expect the run to last and add it all up.

[All4BigGuns]

Or just go simple, highest lifestyle cost among the team plus three thousand.

[Kat9]

Welcome to one of the most common questions people have.

As a "baseline" I'd start by picking a base daily pay rate per person... I go with 2,000¥... then multiply it by the Professional Level of the expected opposition (times 1/2 for PL 0), and then throw in another multiplier based on how you feel the Johnson would "spin" the mission. From there, just figure out how many days you expect the run to last and add it all up.

+1 to you sir.

[Wakshaani]

It depends.

Some games have their runners living in crappy apartments and trying to juggle three bills, cover teh rent, and keep Tony Mamaluke off your back when he rolls in looking for that money you owe him.

Other games have runners that won't roll out of bed for less than ten grand and excpect to be paid like the best in the world ... because they are.

Official guidelines put it at about 5000 per person, enough to cover a month's lifestyle for a successful criminal (Middle lifestyle), plus enough extra to make it worth their while (cover bribes, ammo, etc).

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

[Prodigy]

Both of those systems are good. Just think of the reality too. Wetwork pays more due to the inherent risk (like life in prison or strait execution) versus a vandalism job that only gets a slap on the wrist. However, in the SR world the amount of available criminals is high compared to today so prices per job drop. As for a system, just think "if someone asked me to kill someone, would I take only 5,000 nuyen for it?" and balance that with the same thought of "when is the last time I ate food?"

[Angelone]

Don't forget to figure in expenses, ammo, rent, damaged or lost equipment, bribes, one-shot specialty equipment, and money for the shiney thing they want have to come from somewhere. If the characters are operating at a loss something's wrong. 

[jamesfirecat]

Ten thousand new yen if yu are not alowed to sell the gear of the people you fight durring the mission, seven thousand if you are.

Granted my team rolls at table rating six (back when there was a table raiting six at least) but there you have it.

[Wakshaani]

Both of those systems are good. Just think of the reality too. Wetwork pays more due to the inherent risk (like life in prison or strait execution) versus a vandalism job that only gets a slap on the wrist. However, in the SR world the amount of available criminals is high compared to today so prices per job drop. As for a system, just think "if someone asked me to kill someone, would I take only 5,000 nuyen for it?" and balance that with the same thought of "when is the last time I ate food?"

You'd be shocked at how low most hitter prices run. I want to say a thousand's the norm, but most people paid for killing are cops, rather than hitmen. The real pros get paid more, but there's never a shortage of guys that'll gank somebody for a couple hundred bucks.

And here's the "Most drug dealers would be better off getting a job at McDonalds" bit.

Off the top of my head, Pamela Smart bought a pistol for her underaged BF and said "Kill my husband or the nookie stops". I want to say Wanda Holloway offered five hundred bucks, while Charlotte Lindtsrom was waving around a hundred grand in Australian money, which I don't have a conversion for off hand. Needless to say, YMMV.

(And, for the record, I really don't want to go searching for competitive prices for hitmen. There are just some things you *really* don't need in your browser history.)

[JustADude]

That's why I go with base pay and multiply it by the PL and then tweak it by the Johnson:

Let's say a woman wants to get rid of her abusive schmuck of a husband. She knows where he's gonna be and when, which means no leg-work needed, and it's in the Barrens, so finding a way to dispose of the body will be easy. That's definitely a single day's work, tops, since it's basically show up, double-tap, bring the ghouls dinner, done. (2,000¥ * 1 = 2,000¥)

The guy, as mentioned, is a schmuck. He may have a Light Pistol on him, and maybe a couple buddies that are similarly armed, if they even have that much. Definitely PL 0. (2,000¥ * 1/2 = 1,000¥).

The wife is definitely poor, being a Barrens-dweller, and can't afford even 1,000¥. She's desperate, though, so she's been scraping together every penny she can spare to get this done. Probably been saving up for months. It's chump change to a professional Shadowrunner, but she's managed to get together 500¥ and now she's trying to find a Street Samurai willing to work for half the going rate because he wants the good karma.

[Prodigy]

Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.

To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).

Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.

[Delahunt]

Thank you. Lots to think on with this, but I also have what I want - namely, a place to start. Hopefully the first few runs will be fun.

[emsquared]

Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.

To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).

Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.

We admittedly weren't professionals (it was our first wetwork), and it turned very ugly (but that doesn't matter here because we negotiated pay before, of course), but to kill two witnesses in a murder case, one a nationally known pop-star, IN ADDITION TO recovering some evidence data-files in a bank security box, we got $100,000 to split between 3 of us... it was as high as our Johnson was willing to go (with my 15 Negotiation dice, 6 successes - unknown net). I thought we were getting ripped off, however the initial offer was 40K so...

[All4BigGuns]

Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.

To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).

Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.

We admittedly weren't professionals (it was our first wetwork), and it turned very ugly (but that doesn't matter here because we negotiated pay before, of course), but to kill two witnesses in a murder case, one a nationally known pop-star, IN ADDITION TO recovering some evidence data-files in a bank security box, we got $100,000 to split between 3 of us... it was as high as our Johnson was willing to go (with my 15 Negotiation dice, 6 successes - unknown net). I thought we were getting ripped off, however the initial offer was 40K so...

You WERE getting ripped off, that should have been AT LEAST 100000 each.

[Prodigy]

So essentially your character committed a crime that FOR SURE has bad implications for your crew (like no doubt Lone Star or whomever will use ridiculous man-hours to catch the "Brittany Spears killer" or whatever) for 33,000 nuyen? Why not boost cars? Could do that for a year and make more money. And, if caught, just go to jail for GTA for maybe 10 years at most. Murder of a national figure brings so much heat that you cant get another job for a year anyways. And, if caught, a for sure conviction (people want to blame someone). Again, as a GM, make sure its worth it for your characters.