[raggedhalo]

100k for the team is loads. Even with laying low, it's a much better daily rate than carjacking. Plus, y'know, most (meta)humans are far from being perfectly rational economic actors.

[Wakshaani]

100k for the team is loads. Even with laying low, it's a much better daily rate than carjacking. Plus, y'know, most (meta)humans are far from being perfectly rational economic actors.

Once again, gang members and dope peddlers (Who are the first to get gunned down should a block war break out) pocket about two to three bucks an hour. Versus getting shot, beaten up, or tossed in jail for several years.

For those who haven't seen it:

Ted Talks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGC2nLnaes

[Prodigy]

I disagree with the carjacking daily rate. And 33,000 for potentially never working that city again isn't worth it. I agree most metahumans will do stupid things for low pay. What a Johnson pays shadow runners for is DISCRETION and PROFESSIONALISM. Something your typical gang banger doesn't do. I like making my characters professionals and they act as such. I guess it ultimately depends on the campaign. If your characters are gangers, then 33,000 may seem like a lot. But would Johnson hire gangers for a celebrity murder?

[Kat9]

Seems to me that every Mission or story Shadowrun publishes tends to start out something like. "So its been a while since you last worked, tour landlord is harassing you for rend, you're on your last soybeer and peanuts are a fading memory. You're just about to sell your left eyeball....again...when your Fixer calls."

Its not, "So you wake up in a supermodel sandwich, swim your way to the surface of your pool of cash and answer the comlink. Its your fixer again and this time he's offering you a mil to go get a jar of jam from the corner store."


So much like all these debates end up, and there's several across several forums. Proper pay is somewhere between, "Players are looting the boots off corpses and stealing cars," and "They refuse any job that doesn't pay them X".

[All4BigGuns]

Which is why I said to take the highest lifestyle cost among the team and add 3000. If any of them aren't making enough for their lifestyle plus extra to save for 'goodies' then the pay isn't high enough.

[Kat9]

Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.

[Prodigy]

Agreed Kat9. Like I said in my first post on this forum, balance "when is the last time I ate food" with "is this worth my life"

[All4BigGuns]

Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.

High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.

[Kat9]

Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.

High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.

Just my opinion. Not looking for yet another "debate". Some people like apples, some like oranges, some are happy with both, and some like none.

[Critias]

You need to pay the PCs exactly enough to keep them shadowrunning instead of boosting cars, not so much they aren't hungry for the next job, enough to let them buy new goodies, not so much they overdo it with gear, enough to keep the campaign advancing in power level alongside their increasing karma, little enough they aren't always suspected a setup/bluff, enough that it might still sometimes be a setup/bluff, enough for it to fall in-line with the meta-profits a corporation will make after a successful job, little enough the corporations continue to profit by hiring freelancers instead of sending in-house assets for the job, and just enough to make them think every job is worth the risk. 

The actual number attached to those requirements is going to vary by GM and players and campaign, though, which is the tricky part.

Whew.  There we go, that one's solved.    Next!

[Prodigy]

Well put Critias

[emsquared]

... 33,000 for potentially never working that city again isn't worth it. I agree most metahumans will do stupid things for low pay. What a Johnson pays shadow runners for is DISCRETION and PROFESSIONALISM. Something your typical gang banger doesn't do. I like making my characters professionals and they act as such. I guess it ultimately depends on the campaign. If your characters are gangers, then 33,000 may seem like a lot. But would Johnson hire gangers for a celebrity murder?

It was kind of a sudden, big step up in the sophistication level of jobs from what we had previously pulled, and more than doubled our previous max pay-day. OOC I was thinking, why is he hiring us for this? Admittedly though, the campaign is very much a re-introduction to SR for everyone in our group (no one but the GM has played since SR2, and 2 of our group had never played before), so it's not extremely hardcore (probably quite lax) as far as clean-up and consequences and what not.

[Prodigy]

Fair enough

[RHat]

Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.

High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.

Hypothetical case:  Technomancer lives Luxury lifestyle, Street Sam lives Street lifestyle.  Using that math without any weighting, the Street Sam is getting paid WAY more than he should and thus progressing far too quickly, while the Technomancer making this possible doesn't need to make that much money past his Lifestyle in the first place.

Honestly, lifestyle seems like a poor way to do that math, as some characters might pay for 2 or more in order to maintain multiple identities, and as different character types have differing needs for money the system could be gamed pretty easily.  In all reality, you have to gauge nuyen rewards against karma rewards - overall, they need to hit a certain ratio for progression to be even.

[All4BigGuns]

Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.

High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.

Hypothetical case:  Technomancer lives Luxury lifestyle, Street Sam lives Street lifestyle.  Using that math without any weighting, the Street Sam is getting paid WAY more than he should and thus progressing far too quickly, while the Technomancer making this possible doesn't need to make that much money past his Lifestyle in the first place.

Honestly, lifestyle seems like a poor way to do that math, as some characters might pay for 2 or more in order to maintain multiple identities, and as different character types have differing needs for money the system could be gamed pretty easily.  In all reality, you have to gauge nuyen rewards against karma rewards - overall, they need to hit a certain ratio for progression to be even.

Extreme outlier of an example. It doesn't happen often enough to even bear serious consideration.