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In Debt Negative Quality

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Sacredsouless

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« on: <12-15-12/0434:08> »
So I'm wondering just how negative do you consider this one to be? I'm drawing up a character who got pushed into shadowrunning due to excessive gambling debt, like enough that I actually considered just giving him the Borrowed Time quality instead. And in the How Much Per Job? thread it was sounding like average pay would take my dude only a few runs, or just one big one, to pull in all the money needed to pay off the In Debt quality, even at maximum (30,000 nuyen).

JustADude

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« Reply #1 on: <12-15-12/0439:03> »
Well, you do have expenses in there, as well as interest that accrues monthly, so it'll still take a while to pay off entirely. Certainly long enough to be interesting.

Plus, many GMs will force you to pay Karma to actually be rid of all the complications.
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Crunch

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« Reply #2 on: <12-15-12/0441:02> »
Typically I assume that until you pay the Karma off the loathsome loanshark you owe the 30K to is still expecting you to pay. Otherwise, it wouldn't be balanced compared to other negative qualities. Think of this as the debt Han Solo owes Jabba. It's about more than just money.

Sacredsouless

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« Reply #3 on: <12-15-12/0546:08> »
Yeah, I can see that. Plus I'm thinking to make it so the debt was incurred getting some nice implants that would help the character when playing poker (and also "luckily" as a face), that way I owe not only money to the loaner but probably a bit "extra" for the effort of getting me good bioware. I'm gonna toss up the sheet here in a bit for perusal.

Novocrane

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« Reply #4 on: <12-15-12/0616:31> »
I generally assume JAD has it on the money (pun intended) for this one - or your GM simply replaces the karmic debt with new negative qualities as you pay off the debt in increments.

So on a 30k loan / 45k debt; by paying off 7500 (plus interest) nuyen, your GM now has 5bp they can put towards a new negative quality for your character.
« Last Edit: <12-15-12/0619:54> by Novocrane »

Redmercury

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« Reply #5 on: <12-15-12/1337:49> »
I took this one recently for my latest spellslinger. 30k from the russian mob for his chinese junk (modded spitzen). I look forward to how the mob deals with him, as he has no intention of paying them back. Oh you can bet he's going to have watchers posted.

Kat9

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« Reply #6 on: <12-15-12/1345:01> »
My ghoul adept is in debt with Tamanous, gives me an excuse to have the Infected Lifestyle.

Lonewheels

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« Reply #7 on: <12-16-12/0537:16> »
I think in debt can be a roleplay fun getting the karma and cash.

My view is that in debt both need a cash as karma payment.

i agree with kat9 that it can be a background builder.

1.personal favorite with dependt 5 or 10 getting someone back
2.Bio or cyberware
3.Gambling needx a rule  addiction and media junkie just don't makes it.




« Last Edit: <12-16-12/0550:43> by Lonewheels »

Kat9

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« Reply #8 on: <12-16-12/1933:10> »
I don't know, I think Addiction pretty much covers it. You get a +1 notoriety for having the addiction, you have to gamble X hours a week. Like any drug there's a chance that it could get worse the more you do it.

ZombieAcePilot

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« Reply #9 on: <12-17-12/0450:25> »
Part of roleplaying is playing your negative qualities. If you are in debt, chances are you are in debt for a reason. You gamble, have a huge family, etc, etc.  So when money comes in, chances are all you can afford is the interest, because you blew the rest on lifestyle, gear, etc. The only way to be able to pay off the principle is to pay the karma. Think about it this way: if your character had such great impulse control that he could live the low life while sending thousands of nuyen to someone else, would he be in this mess to begin with? The mob (or whoever else you owe the money to) is happy to collect interest every month till the end of time.

Of course there are ways to get out early. You could pick up quadriplegic after you don't pay and the mob breaks your back. There are all kinds of nasty things to replace the points. Heck, you could even pay them off in such a fashion (since they'll take it after they rough you up).

In short, most negative qualities aren't expected to go away over any short period of time. They are part of what makes the characters interesting and provide potential plot hooks to GM's. Try to change your focus off of eliminating  qualities and onto playing them up.

Lonewheels

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« Reply #10 on: <12-17-12/0536:28> »
A ganbling addiction can be covered that way.
I was just looking at the addiction qualitie in the rulebook only substances and btl are named there.

Two things keep nagging me.
Gambling and the overdose 
and the winning and losing

GM's own rules on addiction apply,

This may keep me thinking about this for a while.
and maybe starting a topic on it some day.


Shadowjack

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« Reply #11 on: <12-17-12/0749:48> »
While I see the logic for paying karma to remove the "In Debt" quality, I think it should only cost money, otherwise it makes no sense. Jacks owes Jim 30k and manages to pay him back after 4 months. That should be the end of it in my opinion. The GM can impose problems as he pleases. One example could be the concerned party asks for interest. But I don't think there should be interest in all cases.

Once again, I see the logic, but I'd make an exception for this quality only. You owe money, you pay it back... the end :P To be honest, while this is a fun quality I don't think it fits the Shadowrun system that well.
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Csjarrat

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« Reply #12 on: <12-17-12/0800:28> »
While I see the logic for paying karma to remove the "In Debt" quality, I think it should only cost money, otherwise it makes no sense. Jacks owes Jim 30k and manages to pay him back after 4 months. That should be the end of it in my opinion. The GM can impose problems as he pleases. One example could be the concerned party asks for interest. But I don't think there should be interest in all cases.

Once again, I see the logic, but I'd make an exception for this quality only. You owe money, you pay it back... the end :P To be honest, while this is a fun quality I don't think it fits the Shadowrun system that well.

unless the mafia demand that the runner start working for them as well as part of paying off the debt? :-)
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Sacredsouless

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« Reply #13 on: <12-17-12/0803:18> »
While I see the logic for paying karma to remove the "In Debt" quality, I think it should only cost money, otherwise it makes no sense. Jacks owes Jim 30k and manages to pay him back after 4 months. That should be the end of it in my opinion. The GM can impose problems as he pleases. One example could be the concerned party asks for interest. But I don't think there should be interest in all cases.

Once again, I see the logic, but I'd make an exception for this quality only. You owe money, you pay it back... the end :P To be honest, while this is a fun quality I don't think it fits the Shadowrun system that well.

See that was my concern too. My image for this character is a dude so ridden by debt that he is forced to the shadows because he has lost everything else gambling and paying off those debts. Eventually takes out a big time loan (with a loan shard, mafioso, etc) so he can finally score the big one and pay everything off, but instead blows it and loses everything. Now he gets monitored by the loaner and has to work his tail off trying to raise the cash for a debt that he will never be able to pay off (without some monumental windfall happening at least). That was why I considered getting the Borrowed Time instead of In Debt because that would represent that he only has a few months to get the cash before the loaner gets sick of him and just offs the dude rather than trying to squeeze money out of him.

Oh, and the interest idea was one I didn't consider, don't know why....anyway, that will make it even harder to pay off my debts. Especially since the preferred way to earn money is, guess it, gambling.

Kat9

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« Reply #14 on: <12-17-12/0811:49> »
While I see the logic for paying karma to remove the "In Debt" quality, I think it should only cost money, otherwise it makes no sense. Jacks owes Jim 30k and manages to pay him back after 4 months. That should be the end of it in my opinion. The GM can impose problems as he pleases. One example could be the concerned party asks for interest. But I don't think there should be interest in all cases.

Once again, I see the logic, but I'd make an exception for this quality only. You owe money, you pay it back... the end :P To be honest, while this is a fun quality I don't think it fits the Shadowrun system that well.

You know, every time I see a new player come in with In Debt I sort of laugh to myself. I know they took it thinking, "I just pay cash and this is like free points."  Why should In Debt be free points for just paying off in game cash? I took Day Job at 40 hours a week. OK I quit my job! Free points, yey! I took Wanted, I bought a biosculpting, now they don't know what I look like. Free points, yey! I took Borrowed Time, that player is playing a vampire. He infected me. Free points, yey!

So by your logic, really a lot of major point negative qualities could be resolved without much effort. If they get a 'free pass' then why should anyone have to pay karma to 'pay off' the extra build points in chargen?