[Devil]

Is it okay to start a create a character who  begins the game using some 'used cyberware/bioware'? I ask this question mainly because I'm using Chummer and it offers the option. It's rather tempting as a way to save essence or nuyen.

[emsquared]

That's really something you have to ask your GM for any given character or game.

As far as my experience as a player: No. Never have.
If I were a GM: Sure, it will of course be used quality - y'know, not 100% reliable, but go for it. 10% off book price.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I'd do it only if there was a good story reason to do so.  Used ware has waaaay too many downsides.

[Novocrane]

I have, but I wasn't being done over for anything other than the extra essence cost - which is a high price in itself.

[Devil]

I decided to only do it when it makes makes some sense with the character's backstory, and not to use it as a balancing tool. In the end I don't like minmaxing to the extent of sacrificing the roleplay behind chargen. Not to mention the potential failure of said implants, like you mentioned. Not being able to rely on your ware is a pretty big issue.

Thanks.

[JustADude]

That's really something you have to ask your GM for any given character or game.

As far as my experience as a player: No. Never have.
If I were a GM: Sure, it will of course be used quality - y'know, not 100% reliable, but go for it. 10% off book price.

Acutally, EM², there are already rules in place for used cyberware: +20% Essence, -50% Nuyen... and they still work perfectly fine unless you either use the 2nd Hand Gambling optional rule and lose, or you take a Quality that describes a problematic implant.

[WellsIDidIt]

Or you use the option where Second Hand implants are automatically buggy.

Also remember that Second Hand ware is harder to implant than basic, and it's harder to find clinics that will implant it (often meaning less skilled/equipped implant surgeons).

[emsquared]

Acutally, EM², there are already rules in place for used cyberware: +20% Essence, -50% Nuyen... and they still work perfectly fine unless you either use the 2nd Hand Gambling optional rule and lose, or you take a Quality that describes a problematic implant.

Hmm, who knew? Everyone but me apparently

[Inconnu]

And then, in the game, you can eventually replace said implants, which, while not increasing your Essence, will allow you to treat it like it had for purposes of installing new cybers.

[emsquared]

50% off seems crazy to me, given that it seems like most of the expense in most 'ware would be the medical procedural cost of installing it... not the materials itself. And also seems like it taking more ESS is a poor balance for the very reason Inconnu mentions. At least there is an optional rule for having it be buggy.

[WellsIDidIt]

50% off seems crazy to me, given that it seems like most of the expense in most 'ware would be the medical procedural cost of installing it... not the materials itself. And also seems like it taking more ESS is a poor balance for the very reason Inconnu mentions. At least there is an optional rule for having it be buggy.

You think that's bad, do the math on Second-Hand Alphaware. Same cost (essence and nuyen) as standard cyberware, but better availability (-1) and harder to detect/effect.

[CanRay]

On the flipside, it's second-hand, which has a whole lot of negative situations going along with it.

Especially if you got your Cyberarm from someone that wants it back really, really bad.

[Ethan]

We treat them as intermediary qualities. The second-hand stuff's just poorer than normal 'ware. The second-hand alpha's the better brand name. Now it doesn't totally jive with what's presented, but it adds some diversity in grades.

[Wakshaani]

Yeah, since I tend to run lower-level games, second-hand 'ware is a Big Deal. Lots of people pick it up in chargen. Note: I don't allow stacking grades, so second-hand Alpha is, in fact, just normal cyber. (In other words, ripping the stuff out of someone will always degrade the thing's performance.)

[JustADude]

Yeah, since I tend to run lower-level games, second-hand 'ware is a Big Deal. Lots of people pick it up in chargen. Note: I don't allow stacking grades, so second-hand Alpha is, in fact, just normal cyber. (In other words, ripping the stuff out of someone will always degrade the thing's performance.)

So you, essentially, treat it as... 2nd Hand -> Standard -> Alpha -> Beta -> Delta?

Looks like a good way to handle it.