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AV rounds in a shotty

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fitzink84

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« on: <01-04-13/1029:24> »
AV rounds in a shotty. what do you think? Personally I think it is unrealistic, as most AP rounds are rifle rounds and shotguns don't necessarily have rifling. Also most weapons that fire rounds that are that high velocity are made to withstand that much force. I feel like a high velocity, depleted uranium SABOT fired from a 12 ga would shred the gun.  Any gun experts that could shed some light on this? 

Anarkitty

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« Reply #1 on: <01-04-13/1402:01> »
According to the Shotgun special rules (SR4, p144), shotguns fire "slug rounds", or can fire "shot rounds". Neither of these have listings in the Ammunition section, so I assume they are covered by "Regular Ammo".
There is nothing that says the other ammo types can't be loaded into a shotgun, but they will be the shotgun versions.  A shotgun AP round would have to work on different principles than a rifle AP round.  Maybe an aerodynamic, semi-self-propelled, discarding-sabot, depleted uranium slug contained in a shotgun shell casing.  It doesn't damage the shotgun because it is designed for shotguns.  That's why you can't load it into an assault rifle, for example.

I'm not a gun-nut so I don't know if this is realistic, but remember, this is also 60 years into the future.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #2 on: <01-04-13/1403:14> »
Shot rounds are Flechette, actually. By the rules, slug rounds are normal ammo so you can indeed put APDS in it. I have no idea how realistic this is.

ChromeZephyr

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« Reply #3 on: <01-04-13/1715:28> »
You're all bringing up realism in context of SR ammo.  Go to the corner and think about what you've done.  ;) 

OP: Ask your GM what they think.  If they're cool, go nuts.  If not...well, I'm sure you can find another option to kill drones with. ;)

CanRay

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« Reply #4 on: <01-04-13/1842:25> »
Shot rounds are Flechette, actually. By the rules, slug rounds are normal ammo so you can indeed put APDS in it. I have no idea how realistic this is.
Sabot rounds for Shotguns exist today (the "DS" in "APDS" means "Discarding Sabot".).  Having it be Armor Piercing doesn't matter to the shotgun too much as the warhead (bullet/slug/EX-Ex Round) can be pretty much anything that the sabot can hold.  It might have a "magnum" load to help with the armor-piercing capabilities, but magnum loads exist today as well (Just like there's +P rounds for pistols.).
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RHat

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« Reply #5 on: <01-04-13/1856:22> »
Let's not forget that the AV rounds in War require a large-bore weapon.  Think a shotgun would qualify?
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CanRay

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« Reply #6 on: <01-04-13/1944:13> »
Let's not forget that the AV rounds in War require a large-bore weapon.  Think a shotgun would qualify?
A Punt Gun would.

Some of those flying Paracritters have some tough armor!
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fitzink84

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« Reply #7 on: <01-04-13/2147:14> »
You're all bringing up realism in context of SR ammo.  Go to the corner and think about what you've done.  ;) 

OP: Ask your GM what they think.  If they're cool, go nuts.  If not...well, I'm sure you can find another option to kill drones with. ;)

+ 1 for the stand in a corner comment, I am the DM so I am asking you guys. I am just having an issue with an anti vehicular, high velocity round coming from anything other than a high powered rifle or an assault cannon I guess.  But I guess if the rules allow it then screw it I should right?

RHat

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« Reply #8 on: <01-04-13/2230:23> »
You're all bringing up realism in context of SR ammo.  Go to the corner and think about what you've done.  ;) 

OP: Ask your GM what they think.  If they're cool, go nuts.  If not...well, I'm sure you can find another option to kill drones with. ;)

+ 1 for the stand in a corner comment, I am the DM so I am asking you guys. I am just having an issue with an anti vehicular, high velocity round coming from anything other than a high powered rifle or an assault cannon I guess.  But I guess if the rules allow it then screw it I should right?

The rules on AV rounds are...  Less than clear, because "large-bore weapons" doesn't have a strict definition.  I'd allow it, certainly - no real reason to deny shotguns that  utility

And Assault Cannon rounds are an entirely different category.  They're closer to vehicle weapons than to anti-vehicle weapons.
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fitzink84

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« Reply #9 on: <01-04-13/2240:33> »
You're all bringing up realism in context of SR ammo.  Go to the corner and think about what you've done.  ;) 

OP: Ask your GM what they think.  If they're cool, go nuts.  If not...well, I'm sure you can find another option to kill drones with. ;)

+ 1 for the stand in a corner comment, I am the DM so I am asking you guys. I am just having an issue with an anti vehicular, high velocity round coming from anything other than a high powered rifle or an assault cannon I guess.  But I guess if the rules allow it then screw it I should right?

The rules on AV rounds are...  Less than clear, because "large-bore weapons" doesn't have a strict definition.  I'd allow it, certainly - no real reason to deny shotguns that  utility

And Assault Cannon rounds are an entirely different category.  They're closer to vehicle weapons than to anti-vehicle weapons.

Agreed, thanks for the input everyone. But rhat I think you hit it on the head.

WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #10 on: <01-05-13/1044:44> »
Quote
Let's not forget that the AV rounds in War require a large-bore weapon.  Think a shotgun would qualify?
I assume the standard for shotguns in SR is 12 guage. A 12 Guage slug is roughly .73 caliber, just a little under really. I don't see any issue allowing shotguns to have AV rounds from Arsenal. That said, the rounds in War! are Anti-Tank rounds. I don't think the Shotguns have the velocity (or can stand up to the pressure) or those.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #11 on: <01-05-13/1934:21> »
I was about to say - AV restricted to large-bore weapons??  NIMG!!

Anti-Tank, yes, that I can see.  I can see AT rounds being ... hm.  An anti-tank round that's smaller than a tank/artillery shell is, in my mind, a HEAT round - one that's designed to channel a pretty serious explosion primarily in one direction.  Self-forging fragment, that sort of thing.  That said, yes, I can see even a shotgun (seriously - 'shotty'?  'Shotgun' isn't simple enough for you?) being too small-bore for it.  On the other hand, I can see grenade-launchers being able to fire this sort of round; it isn't the launch speed of the shell that's doing the penetration, after all.  That said, I can equally see a rifle- or shotgun-fired grenade being able to do the same thing ...

Anti-vehicular rounds, however, should be allowed for all scales of firearms (and, IMO, Dikote(tm) should be returned to give edged weapons the same capability).  Your holdout pistol with the AV round might not do much against the car, but using an AV round might help it punch through the armored window and hit the driver.  And three shots from an HP into an engine block should be enough to kill a car - or be sufficient when used to crack a bulletproof window so you can kick it out.

tl;dr - AV for shotgun, yes.  Anti-tank for shotgun, as a 'shotgun-grenade'.
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fitzink84

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« Reply #12 on: <01-06-13/0003:41> »
... (seriously - 'shotty'?  'Shotgun' isn't simple enough for you?)...

Though I liked a lot of what you had to say, which is not surprising from someone of your status within the forums,  I just had to answer your question. "Shotty" is a common slang that is used in many parts of the country (and by "the country" I mean the United States of America, just so as not to oversimplify). As far as simplicity goes, typically I don't need things simplified.  Shotty is honestly quite a bit less lazy and simplified than NIMG or IMO. It's called voice. Using slang in a way that doesn't destroy the writing's comprehensibility or content gives it voice. Whereas using abbreviations to shorten simple sentence fragments is called oversimplification, IMHO.

Though your game advice was high quality and I thank you for that.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #13 on: <01-06-13/0224:23> »
Though I liked a lot of what you had to say, which is not surprising from someone of your status within the forums,  I just had to answer your question. "Shotty" is a common slang that is used in many parts of the country (and by "the country" I mean the United States of America, just so as not to oversimplify). As far as simplicity goes, typically I don't need things simplified.  Shotty is honestly quite a bit less lazy and simplified than NIMG or IMO. It's called voice. Using slang in a way that doesn't destroy the writing's comprehensibility or content gives it voice. Whereas using abbreviations to shorten simple sentence fragments is called oversimplification, IMHO.

Though your game advice was high quality and I thank you for that.

The question was rhetorical.  I know what 'voice' is, thank you.  If that's your native or adoptive voice, so be it; in my experience, that particular voice is of undereducated individuals of low and/or crude culture.  Abbreviations such as IMO and NIMG are similar examples of voice, and similarly cultural - IMO was developed pre-AOL internet, for example, among whom we are writing, and NIMG is a low-absorption cultural voice indicator of the tabletop gaming population, again among whom we are writing - in other words, typically acceptable among this culture.

Online, you are how you write.  If you want to be 'that 'shotty' guy', by all means, use the term.  I prefer my uses.
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Prodigy

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« Reply #14 on: <01-06-13/0706:17> »
Let's not derail this thread on page 1 please.