[DamienHollow]

It's the difference between Restricted and Forbidden - it's more about the game end of things than the modelling reality end of things.

Yeah, but you don't need two entirely different classes just to explain the Availability rating.

[RHat]

It's the difference between Restricted and Forbidden - it's more about the game end of things than the modelling reality end of things.

Yeah, but you don't need two entirely different classes just to explain the Availability rating.

I'm AFB right now and could be wrong, but as I recall, Sport Rifles are a bit worse on range increment, and their damage codes are worse.  These mean different weapon classes in SR.

[DamienHollow]

Yeah, but unless something's changed behind the scenes they use similar or identical cartridges (IRL) from similar or identical barrels (length, design, quality, ect.) So that doesn;t make much sense either... it would make sense that the Mega Corps intentional produced sub standard weapons for the public, unfortunately.

[RHat]

Yeah, but unless something's changed behind the scenes they use similar or identical cartridges (IRL) from similar or identical barrels (length, design, quality, ect.) So that doesn;t make much sense either... it would make sense that the Mega Corps intentional produced sub standard weapons for the public, unfortunately.

You really don't think that in 2074, the average Sniper Rifle might be firing a larger round from a longer barrel and just be all around BETTER than what the corps make easily available to others?  If nothing else than for their own protection?

[Mirikon]

I don't see why they make such a difference between sniper and sporting/hunting rifles, the two tend to be fairly interchangeable in the real world. both are built for accuracy at long range and great power. I've seen plenty of "hunting" arms that are better weapons than most military arms.

With sniper rifles, you get up into things like the Anti-materiel rifles. You know, the things it is technically a war crime to use on people, because they're designed to hunt armored vehicles. Of course, that point is moot, since if you don't catch a sniper, you can't exactly prosecute war crimes, and because of what snipers do, they tend to wind up dead rather than captured when they are caught.

[DamienHollow]

With sniper rifles, you get up into things like the Anti-materiel rifles. You know, the things it is technically a war crime to use on people, because they're designed to hunt armored vehicles. Of course, that point is moot, since if you don't catch a sniper, you can't exactly prosecute war crimes, and because of what snipers do, they tend to wind up dead rather than captured when they are caught.

Actually, it's not a war crime as long as the rounds don't violate the frangible ammunition clause of the Geneva or the Geneva's 20mm minimum diameter limit on explosive shells. If two countries are at war and neither have signed the Geneva but both have signed the Hague convention on the same subject, then the minimum explosive shell is a "1lb shell" or roughly 37mm.

And while i can understand the exceptional weapons like .50 BMG and .416 Barrets. But most snipers never use rounds anywhere near that large, the .338 Lapua Magnum is about as large as comfort permits under most circumstances and i have seen hunting rifles (usually for long range elk hunting) in that size. Must snipers i've spoken with actually prefer the .300 Win Mag and Ultra Mag series, very popular elk rounds.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Not to offend, but have you ever heard of a bighorn or elk kill beyond 2000m?  While you can certainly use a hunting rifle to kill at some fairly significant ranges - and you absolutely can use the same cartridges to fire out to even more extreme ranges - sniper rifles tend to be made to a finer tolerance than the hunting rifle you got down at Bass Pro, or to both finer tolerances and more extreme use.  A weapon is more than just the rifle, as well; it's the entire unity.  Yes, you can get civilian weapons that will fire out that far, and in all actuality most of them probably do - but the accuracy curve goes down further.  Can you refine a civilian rifle to get those tolerances?  Sure.  And y'know, that's what those modifications in Arsenal are for.

When it comes down to it, it's a game design issue.  Yes, you can just say 'oh, all rifles are X', but when it's blatantly clear that a German cop or a US Marine are not carrying around a .30-06 they got at Outdoor world, you need to differentiate - in the weapon class, the damage done, the availability, etc.

Game design tries to approximate real life, but that's mostly what it tries to do - approximate.  You can refine one part or another, if you like, for your own game, but for design issues including but not limited to playability, things are probably best as they've been portrayed for the last 4 iterations.

[Sacredsouless]

One of the first things you guys gotta remember is that while the caliber might be X, there is a cartridge behind it that affects the power of the round and therefore how far it travels. Most military snipers are chambered for either 5.56 or 7.62 mm, and if its a NATO country, its the same rounds we use in our assault rifles/carbines/machine guns of various flavors. Those rounds and weapons were designed to be useful from about 800 meters down because typical engagement ranges were pretty small at the time (think WWI till after Vietnam) and they didn't need an normal infantry dude shooting out to a few miles. Then it was all standardized to save money and make ammo readily available to any other NATO soldier. Now this isn't every sniper, but quite a few of them are designed this way. One of the easy ways to control the power of the rifles (in game), and ensure that good military ones don't get into civilian hands, is to simply change the size of the cartridge and therefore the size of the inside of the breech. You produce smaller cartridges for the same calibers for civilians, and the military gets a longer/bigger cartridge giving them more powerful rounds for rifles of the same caliber. This means a civilian cannot fit the larger military cartridge into his civilian rifle making it much harder for them to fire the military rounds, ignoring the difficulty of obtaining them in the first place. Now you have an explanation for both why the sniper rifles have longer range and greater power.

[Memnoch]

Not to offend, but have you ever heard of a bighorn or elk kill beyond 2000m?  While you can certainly use a hunting rifle to kill at some fairly significant ranges - and you absolutely can use the same cartridges to fire out to even more extreme ranges - sniper rifles tend to be made to a finer tolerance than the hunting rifle you got down at Bass Pro, or to both finer tolerances and more extreme use.  A weapon is more than just the rifle, as well; it's the entire unity.  Yes, you can get civilian weapons that will fire out that far, and in all actuality most of them probably do - but the accuracy curve goes down further.  Can you refine a civilian rifle to get those tolerances?  Sure.  And y'know, that's what those modifications in Arsenal are for.

When it comes down to it, it's a game design issue.  Yes, you can just say 'oh, all rifles are X', but when it's blatantly clear that a German cop or a US Marine are not carrying around a .30-06 they got at Outdoor world, you need to differentiate - in the weapon class, the damage done, the availability, etc.

Game design tries to approximate real life, but that's mostly what it tries to do - approximate.  You can refine one part or another, if you like, for your own game, but for design issues including but not limited to playability, things are probably best as they've been portrayed for the last 4 iterations.

Actually it's not that uncommon for large game (such as elk) to be shot from 800m+. The main reason you see police/military using specialized versions of these rifles is because those versions make the rifle lighter, more durable, and easier to handle.
The last time I was at a gun shop they tried to sell me a hunting rifle chambered in .300 Win Mag that was able to shoot a 1/2 inch group at 400m.
The problem isn't that hunting rifles are weaker/less accurate than their same caliber sniper counterparts, it's that your average person can't take advantage of the accuracy the rifle is capable of.

Just throwing that out there.

[DamienHollow]

A large number of "sniper" rifles are in fact modified hunting rifles. The Remington Model 700 is especially popular as a base weapon.

[Mirikon]

A large number of "sniper" rifles are in fact modified hunting rifles. The Remington Model 700 is especially popular as a base weapon.

That is because the original snipers were just marksmen using the same rifles as all the other troops, but they were just better shots. However, there are dedicated sniper rifles, which do shoot further and hit harder than civilian rifles. Some of these things are heavy enough that it is impossible to fire from a standing position, like the Barrett .50 cal. However, even amongst lighter dedicated sniper rifles, like what you would see SWAT teams use, there is a difference between what they have and what you can get at Bass Pro Shop.

[DamienHollow]

Again, the .50 BMG is an anti-material round. It's large enough that it's practically a canon in it's own right (though some hunters will use them for certain large game such as "The Big Five".) There are plenty of .50 caliber weapons out there (some used for hunting) that are no ware near as powerful as that monster. In fact, until fairly recently there was a massive power gap in cartridges between the .30-06'ish cartridges and the .50 BMG. Most snipers don't even use weapons that large, typically preferring the .308 Win to .338 Lapua range. Also, saying "what you find at a Bass Pro Shop" makes it sound like all hunting rifles are all cheep and poorly manufactured. Keeping in mind that any modern military's first priority is Cost and not Quality, and that a civilian hunting rifle's only limitations are what the customer is willing to pay and the local laws allow, you can't really say that the quality of one is better than the other. Odds are a marine M40 or M24 SWS chambered in .300 Win Mag with a 26 inch barrel will shoot just as well as a Savage Model 110 chambered for the same with an identical length barrel. Both style's are built to do the same thing, hit a target at great distance with accuracy. As a side note, humans only qualify as medium game by weight. "Hitting Harder" really isn't an issue past a certain point.

[The_Gun_Nut]

And is actually detrimental to the amount of damage one wishes to inflict.  Since human skin isn't as tough as many big game animals, the round will not mushroom properly and create as large a wound channel.  Of course, "as large" is a relative term, as I'm sure any human hit by a .308 will not properly appreciate the difference.

[CanRay]

Medium Game...  THAT SHOOTS BACK!

Sorry, got Insanity Wolf on my mind for some reason.

No, I mean, literally, he's laying down between my skull and brains!  It itches.

[Inconnu]

I have a thought--A good old "Weapon Inappropriate" modifier. This way you avoid things like assaultcannon sniping.