[cjubmavin]

no i was thinking what do i need to add or take away from it

[cjubmavin]

from what i can think of kender are a race offshoot of the hafling, i think they had no fear of anythingand they can and will go into a dragons lair just to got some shinny stuff, and not to sell it

[RHat]

from what i can think of kender are a race offshoot of the hafling, i think they had no fear of anythingand they can and will go into a dragons lair just to got some shinny stuff, and not to sell it

Which means that were they to exist in the Sixth World, they would die out in less than a year.  And that there would be much testimonial on how they taste with ketchup.

In all seriousness, there's a few problems with trying to bring these guys into Shadowrun.  The first is that they just flat out don't fit the setting.  Another big one is that playing one will, in a Shadowrun game, inevitably become highly disruptive at the table because the nature of them would pretty much botch every run there is and bring down some pretty serious heat on the team.

And on a related note:  "Race" is not the term for what the metatypes and metavariants are.  And yes, it does matter.

[Black]

Quiet true. Potentially very disruptive and not really fitting the setting.

Also, as rhat said, metatype/varient is not the same as race in the ethnicity meaning.  You can have anglo, chinese, japanese, irish etc elves.  Then comes the next question, how do they define themselves? Irish first then elf, or elf first then irish? Or does religion trump both?  The real world overlayed with additional complexities of the awakening make for a facinating setting... And one which differs in many ways from your traditional fantasy rpg.

[RHat]

Then comes the next question, how do they define themselves? Irish first then elf, or elf first then irish? Or does religion trump both?

Which, of course, given the whole Tír na nÓg thing, gets to be a pretty interesting question.

[Black]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

[RHat]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even.  Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick.  BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.

If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.

[All4BigGuns]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even.  Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick.  BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.

If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.

Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."

[Black]

Hmmm... The higher willpower (3-8) should either come with that restriction or the higher cost. Not sure about the infected restriction though, gives them some. Immunity against becoming ghouls...

[RHat]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even.  Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick.  BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.

If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.

Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."

Eh.  I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough.  But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.

[All4BigGuns]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even.  Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick.  BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.

If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.

Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."

Eh.  I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough.  But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.

Well, really, you'd also need to add in part of the Uneducated quality, modified to completely block those skills rather than just doubling the cost, since those are skills that require concentration, and they are BAD BAD BAD at concentrating.

Then again, I'm so biased it's not funny, and just don't think that kenders should be PCs...period.

[RHat]

Feel a bit harsh now.

Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.

Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania.  I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.

Hoop this helps...

Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even.  Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick.  BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.

If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.

Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."

Eh.  I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough.  But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.

Well, really, you'd also need to add in part of the Uneducated quality, modified to completely block those skills rather than just doubling the cost, since those are skills that require concentration, and they are BAD BAD BAD at concentrating.

Then again, I'm so biased it's not funny, and just don't think that kenders should be PCs...period.

Yes, but this is the "all disclaimers apply" phase.

In any case, I'm talking about a straight BP premium on the metavariant.  Requiring a roll to be able to concentrate might be a good addition, too - though, what would the roll be?  Maybe just apply the effects of Bad Luck to anything requiring concentration?

[Black]

Self-control / composure roll?

[RHat]

Self-control / composure roll?

Problem is, the Willpower bonus would make them better at that.

[All4BigGuns]

Self-control / composure roll?

Problem is, the Willpower bonus would make them better at that.

Make it threshold 4 composure, and make it a specific exception that Edge is NOT allowed for that test.