[cheuk4]

I had two separate character ideas, one was the elite sniper "One Shot One Kill, at any range", and the other, a brute Troll with the highest Armor and BOD I could make. When I started thinking about the viability of these characters, I tried pitting them against each other and wanted some help.

So here I am, asking you guys to help refine my characters. My troll tank shouldn't be fully maxed out in terms of BOD, so I know there's a bit of leeway there.

SNIPER
13 AGI - Exceptional Attribute, Restricted Gear x3, Genetic Optimization, Muscle Toner x4, Suprathyroid Gland
6(8 ) Longarm(Sniper)
Barrett Model 121(18F Restricted) - 9P, -4 AP
Dice Pool: 13(AGI) + 8(Skill) + 2(Smartgun) + 2(Take Aim x2 + Image Magnification) = 25

TANK
12 BOD - Genetic Optimization + Suprathyroid Gland
Didn't get Exceptional Attribute because Genetic Heritage(Optimization) + Restricted Gear x2(Pain Editor, Suprathyroid)
Physical Track = 14
16 Ballistics Armor - 6(Form Fitting Full-Body) + 2(Full Secure-Tech Set) + 7(Vashon Island: Steampunk Set) + 1(Troll)

So I presume the best called shot would be to negate armor, Sniper Rifles have AP -4, so 25 - 12 = 13 Dice, 14 if EX-Explosive Ammo.
With no defense (Tank is unaware of attack), the attack if we buy hits is 3 net hits. If roll average 5 hits?
So with Barrett DV = 9, so total 12/14 DV. Add onto that EX-Explosive Ammo is +1 DV for a total of 13/15.

So with the Troll buying hits with Damage Resistance (minus 3 DV), the Sniper loses because it's not a One Shot Kill, and depending on the other stuff I could put on the Troll (like Trauma Dampener and/or Platelet Factories) further reduces the ability for the sniper to "Head Shot" him.

Is there anything else the Sniper could do (other than Edge/Luck) to boost up damage?

[Thrass]

Seriosuly... if you want to you can add more armor and resistance dice to that Troll.

An Armor jacket has 8 (whcih is more then the 7 from you Steampunk ste) Ballistic Armor, and is not the end of the line.

Body means you could theretically strap on a whopping 24 Armor, but those don't exist.
Still with the right set of armor + helmet + form fitting Full-Body + gel inserts  ( I think there was additional armor coating in some book?)
Then you can Bone lacing for +4 Body resistance dice, if you want to surge you can get even better dermal pockets for an additonal point of armor and can raise that with metagenetic enhancement.
Wile you're at it get dermal plating or just go for cyberlimbs with armor....

If you do that your sniper will have a hard time...

Also an option I have seen in play is a Troll Ghoul Adept with Combat sense and Mystic armor, who too had a gigantic damage soag pool after having a skyrocket high evasion pool.


You can make a sniper that can take out targets with 1 shot, but probably not those targets, you could ofcourse pack chemicals(toxins) to kill someone or you could simply make it a 2 shot character,
so you take 2 shots in 1 initiative pass, which nearly doubles your damage (you can't take aim on the 2nd shot).

Also if you really want to use take aim try to have a look at the new PDF The way of the Samurai where a positive quality exists that makes you able to take more aim actions
(in height of skill instead of half the skill, which means with aptitude and reflex recorder your get 8 take aim actions if I'm not mistaken)

Also Aptitude is cheaper then Exceptional attribute but gives the same 1 die on the snipe dice pool.

[cheuk4]

An Armor jacket has 8 (whcih is more then the 7 from you Steampunk ste) Ballistic Armor, and is not the end of the line.

Body means you could theretically strap on a whopping 24 Armor, but those don't exist.
Still with the right set of armor + helmet + form fitting Full-Body + gel inserts  ( I think there was additional armor coating in some book?)
Then you can Bone lacing for +4 Body resistance dice, if you want to surge you can get even better dermal pockets for an additonal point of armor and can raise that with metagenetic enhancement.
Wile you're at it get dermal plating or just go for cyberlimbs with armor....

That's the stuff I knew I was missing, cheers!

You can make a sniper that can take out targets with 1 shot, but probably not those targets, you could ofcourse pack chemicals(toxins) to kill someone or you could simply make it a 2 shot character,
so you take 2 shots in 1 initiative pass, which nearly doubles your damage (you can't take aim on the 2nd shot).

Also if you really want to use take aim try to have a look at the new PDF The way of the Samurai where a positive quality exists that makes you able to take more aim actions
(in height of skill instead of half the skill, which means with aptitude and reflex recorder your get 8 take aim actions if I'm not mistaken)

Also Aptitude is cheaper then Exceptional attribute but gives the same 1 die on the snipe dice pool.

And I guess that's the stuff I'm missing from the Sniper. Too bad about not 1-shotting the Troll, but I guess this is the case where the Shield is better than the Spear...

Except you can throw another spear and the shield would break... meh, my metaphors aren't working

[UmaroVI]

Well, first, if you actually have an unaware target, you can Take Aim. Also, you should be doing -4 to hit/+4 DV called shots. Called shots to bypass armor are almost never worthwhile.

Some of this, though, is that the Barrett is a very specialized weapon that's good for sniping at very long range while being silenced.

If you want to compare, look at the first link in my sig and the Bad Enough Trog and Ghost.

[cheuk4]

Well, first, if you actually have an unaware target, you can Take Aim. Also, you should be doing -4 to hit/+4 DV called shots. Called shots to bypass armor are almost never worthwhile.

Some of this, though, is that the Barrett is a very specialized weapon that's good for sniping at very long range while being silenced.

If you want to compare, look at the first link in my sig and the Bad Enough Trog and Ghost.

If I was to use the Called Shot for -4 hit/+4 DV, doesn't that allow the Troll to roll Damage Resistance with BOD + Armor?

In my simple example, the Sniper would be rolling 21 Dice to hit and buy 5 hits for 9(Gun) + 5(hits) + 1(Ammo) + 4(Called) = 19 DV. Then the Troll gets 12(BOD) + 16(Armor) - 5(AP) = 23 Dice Pool for DR... buy 5 hits and take 14P.... which is just enough to bring him down.

I guess -4/+4 really is a better choice, in my example anyway

EDIT: Yup, checked out your characters, the Trog is pretty crazy, is there any way to actually deal Physical Dmg to him without going through the Stun track?

[UmaroVI]

There's things that bypass armor completely (such as Powerbolt and some toxins), and -half AP weapons. The Ares Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle will hurt nearly anyone.

In your example - also keep in mind that buying hits throws things off. You average 1/3 your pool in hits, buying hits knocks it down to 1/4. So it really should be 16.

[Thrass]

Also you can use Edge to make that really necessary one-shot.


If you do want to make a one trick pony one-shot sniper you could probably grasp all the things you need together for 8 Edge, The sniper quality from way of the samurai and adept with 3 levels of improved combat skill and aptitude for longarms 10 (+10 take aim actions) + elf with genetic enhancement and metagenetic enhancement agility (10 agility max) 2 customized cyberlimbs with customized agility and improved agility for those 15 agility you want, a spezialization in sniper rifles, a smartlink an improved range finder and the eagle eye quality.

This means a dice pool of Attribut 15+Skill 10+Smartlink 2+take aim 10 => 37 dice and range penalties for 2 categories less.

You are an Adept now and can take Adept centering ingame to ingore some of the called shot penalties, which means an even bigger dicepool.

With a barret you get 9DV +4 DV from a called shot means 13DV
-4AP -4AP from the called shot -4AP from AV/Anti-tank rounds (afb atm) means -12AP

from the 37 dice you substract 8 and get 8 from Edge + you reroll 6es (even suffering medium range modifiers,while being at extreme range that shouldn't hurt that much)
this is an average of 37/3 just above 13 hits (including rerolls)
thats 26 damage AP -12

with 16 dice to soak (12 body +4 armor left) from your original example he can soak about 5 damage which means he is stuck with 21 Damage and should probably be dead

Ofcourse ! this is no Character advise, it is just a math thing about the rules.

(And with Edge 8, Elf and all points in positive qualities aswell as magic 6 from which you burn 4, a load of money in wares you are left with not that much BP to do anything else)
((I think magic 5 - 4 burnt magic is even with geas not enough to buy 3 levels of improved combat skill and you don't have enough points to buy a way))
(((I don't know if improved skill adept power and reflex booster stack)))


Also I could be wrong about some of the rules.


Oh and... get a cheap sniper rifle loaded with SnS when the target wears to much armor, in the end that -3 damage compared to the barretts base damage will be neglected by the fact that the target can't use his full armor.
Also you might try to snipe with a gauss rifle ^^ more damage, less armor. (But unavaiilable at chargen)
That thing is areal tankbuster.

[Novocrane]

The Sharpshooter quality from Way of the Samurai allows you to Take Aim a number of times up to your full skill rank.

Characters with this quality are not required to half their appropriate skill when calculating how many Take Aim actions they may perform with a ranged weapon.

Alternately, you could go sneaky Street Ninja, and just ignore armour entirely for 1/2 or 1/4 the normal penalty.

When attacking a surprised opponent with a melee or throwing Weapons attack, characters with this quality may divide any Called Shot penalties in half.
...
The quality can be selected multiple times if the player wants both of the extra bonuses.

[Thrass]

The Sharpshooter quality from Way of the Samurai allows you to Take Aim a number of times up to your full skill rank.

Characters with this quality are not required to half their appropriate skill when calculating how many Take Aim actions they may perform with a ranged weapon.

Alternately, you could go sneaky Street Ninja, and just ignore armour entirely for 1/2 or 1/4 the normal penalty.

When attacking a surprised opponent with a melee or throwing Weapons attack, characters with this quality may divide any Called Shot penalties in half.
...
The quality can be selected multiple times if the player wants both of the extra bonuses.

Unfortunatley the Street ninja can't use sniper rifles (or for that matter any firearm) for that.

[Novocrane]

Yes ... but why are you trying to force a square sniper rifle into a round ninja?

[RHat]

Yes ... but why are you trying to force a square sniper rifle into a round ninja?

Lack of a more convenient stabbing implement?

[Thrass]

I'm not, the post was about a square sniper rifle elf and you are coming up with a round ninja.

I was pointing out, that they don't fit together.

[Prodigy]

This thread really should have been titled "How to metagame the $h*^ out of an elf and troll"

But it is interesting.

[Reiper]

Your sniper is going to one shot just about anything. But there are always going to be some circumstances where he isn't going to be able to.

He would be extremely overpowered if that wasn't the case.