[Reiper]

How much slack do you give your runners, especially in the begining? I haven't really GM'd in years, and when I did it was always with real good friends and we were there to have fun.

But with a fresh group of people, some of them being strangers how much slack should a GM give the players over little things. For example, one thing that I can see happening is someone using geko hands (the bioware or the geko gloves) to climb up, and then decide to chuck a grenade. Especially if you have the bioware version, this can definitely lead to some issues. How would you treat that situation (or others in a similar situation where they may not think it completely through).

In one hand, I really don't want to coddle them completely, but I also know it sucks to take yourself out fairly early in a game and just be sitting around the rest of the session (or building your next character).

[RHat]

A good, simple rule is this:  Remind them of things their character would know.  A lot of people focus on the abusive side of the player-knowledge versus character-knowledge issue, but the flipside can be very important too.  If their character would know it, the fact that the player doesn't shouldn't get them killed.

And that goes way beyond just their knowledge skills.

[Longshot23]

Although you can get the (very) odd player who takes the position that what they don't know, their character doesn't know - which is usually fair enough but not when it includes setting information. Example: player never heard that S-K was owned & run by Lofwyr the Great Dragon.  Right, she said, my character can't know that either.

[Mantis]

You might be surprised by sort of things that 'everyone' knows that some people actually don't know. Especially if they are younger or have a particularly sheltered life or up bringing. I'm not saying that isn't kind of a weird stance for a player to take but it isn't outside the bounds of reality either.

[Mirikon]

How much slack should you give players? Just enough to hang themselves.

Seriously, though, if they are new to the game, then through their first run or two, let them know that you're going to be playing with kid gloves, and do the "Are you sure?" thing when they're about to do something royally stupid. After the 'tutorial' is over, though, let them know that all bets are off, unless someone picks up the Common Sense quality.

[All4BigGuns]

How much slack should you give players? Just enough to hang themselves.

Seriously, though, if they are new to the game, then through their first run or two, let them know that you're going to be playing with kid gloves, and do the "Are you sure?" thing when they're about to do something royally stupid. After the 'tutorial' is over, though, let them know that all bets are off, unless someone picks up the Common Sense quality.

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

[Necrogigas]

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being coddler of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

I fixed it for you.

[All4BigGuns]

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being coddler of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

I fixed it for you.

You "fixed" it to be incorrect. There is only one time when it shouldn't be done, and that is a very poorly worded Wish spell (or equivalent) in D&D.

[Mirikon]

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being coddler of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

I fixed it for you.

You "fixed" it to be incorrect. There is only one time when it shouldn't be done, and that is a very poorly worded Wish spell (or equivalent) in D&D.

Disagree. Once players are experienced enough (both with the system and with the game world) to know what is and is not a stupid idea, then leave them to the loving graces of Darwin and Murphy. You have to take the training wheels off sometime, Guns.

[All4BigGuns]

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being coddler of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

I fixed it for you.

You "fixed" it to be incorrect. There is only one time when it shouldn't be done, and that is a very poorly worded Wish spell (or equivalent) in D&D.

Disagree. Once players are experienced enough (both with the system and with the game world) to know what is and is not a stupid idea, then leave them to the loving graces of Darwin and Murphy. You have to take the training wheels off sometime, Guns.

Again, it's not "training wheels".

As to the Common Sense quality, it shouldn't exist, as it should be automatic. The players will NEVER understand the setting as well as their characters do because they do not actually live in the setting and the characters do.

[Necrogigas]

The "'Are you sure?' thing" isn't kid gloves. That's just being a decent human being coddler of a GM and as such it should not cease. Ever. Period. Full stop.

I fixed it for you.

You "fixed" it to be incorrect. There is only one time when it shouldn't be done, and that is a very poorly worded Wish spell (or equivalent) in D&D.

Disagree. Once players are experienced enough (both with the system and with the game world) to know what is and is not a stupid idea, then leave them to the loving graces of Darwin and Murphy. You have to take the training wheels off sometime, Guns.

Again, it's not "training wheels".

As to the Common Sense quality, it shouldn't exist, as it should be automatic. The players will NEVER understand the setting as well as their characters do because they do not actually live in the setting and the characters do.

Is there a term for a helicoptering GM?

[Mirikon]

Guns, we understand that you like there to not be consequences for people doing stupid stuff, but as I said, once you get past a certain level of proficiency, you got to take things off 'easy' mode, and at least go to 'normal'. Sure, don't start people off on 'hard', but never moving off 'easy' just cheapens the setting. This is not a nice world we're talking about here. Things can go from shiny to hell in a handbasket at the drop of a hat. Getting screwed by the Johnson (or the world in general), having the consequences of your decisions come back to bite you, and finding out that you just royally fragged yourself are all part of the setting. Without it, you're doing as much a disservice to the setting (and your players) as if you decided to play Twilight, the RPG, and call it Shadowrun.

And no, Common Sense should not be automatic. Look around you. There are plenty of people in the world we live in right now who have absolutely no common sense.

[All4BigGuns]

The only thing I have to say is that you missed the entire point. The Common Sense quality isn't actual common sense, it's just something to help out because of the fact that the players won't ever be able to know as much about the setting as their characters do because the players don't actually live in it, and yes it should be automatic because of that fact. You shouldn't have to spend character points for something that should be done any way because the character knows the setting more than you do because they actually live in it.

[Shadowjack]

The key thing for me is, does the player error match the character's experience? A merc with 45 years of experience would probably make sure to reload his gun, for example. I wouldn't let the player play him perfectly though, anyone can make a mistake here and there especially if the knowledge required isn't commonly known. In other words, don't make the character look foolish because the player didn't know something about the game, but don't make the PC omniscient, either.

[All4BigGuns]

I never said omniscient, but that the character would know far more about the setting than the player ever could (discounting maybe the original creators of the setting--though I doubt even then). Far, far more than any amount of "Knowledge skills" could ever represent.