[Aryeonos]

I did say close. You're investing in extra skills to back up the Gunny Sam Merc at that point, or you already were backing him and are investing in something else to help the whole party.

[Glyph]

Wired reflexes: 1 is 11,000 nuyen - that's a smidge over 2 build points.  It depends on what kind of character you are playing - if combat is your primary role, then you will be best off with 3 IP or more (although 4 IP has too high of an opportunity cost for most builds).  If you want to contribute to combat, and be slightly more effective than the average rent-a-cop, security grunt, or drugged-out ganger, then 2 IP is the way to go.  A single IP, I would only recommend for pacifistic or support characters who actively avoid combat.  Initiative passes are huge, both offensively and defensively.

[All4BigGuns]

if combat is your primary role, then you will be best off with 3 IP or more

And yet, playing primarily combat-oriented characters I've done well so far with just 2 passes with only a very few exceptions going to 3.

[RHat]

if combat is your primary role, then you will be best off with 3 IP or more

And yet, playing primarily combat-oriented characters I've done well so far with just 2 passes with only a very few exceptions going to 3.

Diminishing returns, basically.  From 1 to 2 is a 200% multiplier, but from 2 to 3 is only 150%.  I imagine you could take such a character, find the points to make that 3rd pass work, I think in play you might wind up with a more effective character in fights of a certain minimum difficulty.  Being able to attack again is useful indeed.

[All4BigGuns]

if combat is your primary role, then you will be best off with 3 IP or more

And yet, playing primarily combat-oriented characters I've done well so far with just 2 passes with only a very few exceptions going to 3.

Diminishing returns, basically.  From 1 to 2 is a 200% multiplier, but from 2 to 3 is only 150%.  I imagine you could take such a character, find the points to make that 3rd pass work, I think in play you might wind up with a more effective character in fights of a certain minimum difficulty.  Being able to attack again is useful indeed.

For the most part I think it's mainly melee-based that the 3rd pass would really be that much help to.

[RHat]

Two more Simple Action attacks can also be quite powerful.  Basically, multiply your 2 pass damage by 1.5, and that's roughly your 3 pass damage.  To be able to add that much to make your 2 passes just as powerful would take a lot.

[All4BigGuns]

Two more Simple Action attacks can also be quite powerful.  Basically, multiply your 2 pass damage by 1.5, and that's roughly your 3 pass damage.  To be able to add that much to make your 2 passes just as powerful would take a lot.

Meh, doesn't seem like enough to be worth it to me. I'd rather spend that money and Essence on other stuff. *shrugs*

Heck, take a look at the character in my signature. She's one of my favorite SR characters.

[RHat]

It's more valuable for specializing, less for generalizing, in essence.  It multiplies a specific capability, rather than adding new capability.  So it depends a bit on what, exactly, you're aiming for.

[All4BigGuns]

It's more valuable for specializing, less for generalizing, in essence.  It multiplies a specific capability, rather than adding new capability.  So it depends a bit on what, exactly, you're aiming for.

Yeah...Pred is pretty generalized, isn't she?

[RHat]

Quite so, yeah.

[All4BigGuns]

Quite so, yeah.

She's kind of intended to be able to at least somewhat do most things other than magic-related stuff.

[RHat]

Quite so, yeah.

She's kind of intended to be able to at least somewhat do most things other than magic-related stuff.

Backup on just about everything, never really the primary, basically?

[All4BigGuns]

Quite so, yeah.

She's kind of intended to be able to at least somewhat do most things other than magic-related stuff.

Backup on just about everything, never really the primary, basically?

Pretty much. It generally fits me in face-to-face gaming as I actively dodge the spotlight.

[Palladion]

Wow... I did not expect to stir up so many responses.  The reason I posed the question(s) is curiosity about the seemingly huge difference between Professional Rating 3-4 and Rating 5-6, the jump from Trained to Elite (SR4A 281).  Wired Reflexes makes one of the biggest differences, it seems (example: Lone Star vs. Red Samurai).  Also, I am currently reading Spells & Chrome, and plot armor aside (I like that term), the heroes are seldom mentioned with lightning reflexes that are light years faster than everyone else.

Responses have been very helpful, thanks.  I do believe I have a better idea of what niche a runner holds in the grand scheme.

[Aryeonos]

My problem with the built in bullet time is more or less how low end unaugmented characters are made out to be, but even that problem is all because a combat round is 3 seconds instead of just 1. If you watch, or are in, a sparring match you'll notice that, with stance changes and all the minor movements you'll be making a strike once every second. I know it's all supposed to be abstracted, but people are capable and smart without superhuman ability. That's just my main beef with shadowrun in general, and it just comes down to how many seconds a combat turn is.