Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: Sichr on <03-14-13/0544:43>
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I love to have those shortstories compiled. Jumped in and start to read with enthusiasm on orbital level.
I can hardly describe my feelings right now...
I love the book. :)
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To be fair, I don't think the short story is part of the JackPoint file.
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Yeah, the intro is "in Character" from Jack, so he wouldn't be mentioning the short story. It is a wierd flow though.
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jup, everything else is OK, even Table of contents etc. So like I said...possibly another Jack`s moment.
Strange. When i started to read the jackpoint file, I was thinking about who writes this jackpoint intros all the time...is it the same person all those years, or whoever just writes the book writes also Jacks entry...
And what would it feel like when Jack passes the torch to next generation :)
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I've been anxiously awaiting this one...downloaded and ready for some weekend reading. ;D
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Reading through it. Just finished the chapter on Denver. I can't even begin to tell you how many "Oh frag me" moments I've had reading so far.
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Good "oh frag me" or bad "oh frag me" moments?
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
Everyone nips at it every now and then. ;D
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
Everyone nips at it every now and then. ;D
How often do you partake? :P
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
“It is a fool’s prerogative to utter truths that no one else will speak.” — Sandman #19
Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
Everyone nips at it every now and then. ;D
How often do you partake? :P
Pfft. CanRay is the bottle.
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
Everyone nips at it every now and then. ;D
How often do you partake? :P
Pfft. CanRay is the bottle.[/quote]Just the bottle?
You think far too lightly of me. ;D
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Mostly good. Though I was surprised to see that Puck's been drinking the craze-o-hol.
Everyone nips at it every now and then. ;D
How often do you partake? :P
Pfft. CanRay is the bottle.
Just the bottle?
You think far too lightly of me. ;D
[/quote]
How about the barrel? :P
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Perhaps the distillery?
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There are times when I think I might be the only tee-totaling gamer.
Puck, meanwhile? Puck is ... an interesting fellow. The majority of what I've written for him has yet to see print, but, man, walking in that guys shoes for a while is one heck of a ride. He's not as *fun* as, say, Kane, or Slamm-0!, but he's damned interesting. Icarus is the only other one who makes me really sit down and THINK about what he's saying and, more importantly, why. The man has layers like a bunt cake, but sometimes they come with a wee bit too much frosting.
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Meh. Can Ray is still new to this. Most of them are. This crew is downright sane compared to some of the drek the FASA freelancers used to come up with. :)
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Meh. Can Ray is still new to this. Most of them are. This crew is downright sane compared to some of the drek the FASA freelancers used to come up with. :)
Story time, Uncle Bull! We want stories!
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Meh. Can Ray is still new to this. Most of them are. This crew is downright sane compared to some of the drek the FASA freelancers used to come up with. :)
I gutted the Seattle District Attorney's office in my first adventure, I created a multiple-personality time bomb in my first convention adventure, and I created a merc unit consisting of cybered centaurs, pixies, nagas, changelings, shifters, AND pixies? And I keep coming back for MORE! And yet you think I'm SANE?
???
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Until your posts dont look like Siratoris texts
the paradIse devIce of the human body pill cruel
emulator that compressed the acidHUMANIX infection of the
soul/gram made of retro-ADAM to the nightmare-scripts of the
biocapturism nerve cells that crashed a chemical=anthropoid
gene-dub mass of flesh-module of the ultra=machinary tragedyROM creature system to the murder-protocol data=mutant
processing organ BLog@trash sensor drug embryo DNA=channels
of the dogs of tera plug-in… .different of her digital=vamp coldblooded disease animals vital-abolition world-codemaniacs of
the terror fear=cytoplasm which turned on the ill-treatment of a
clone boy is debugged to the brain universe that was controlled.
Technojunkies hunting for the grotesque WEB=cadaver
feti=streaming circuit of the acidHUMANIX infection archive_
body encoder that jointed is output to the brain universe that was
processed the data=mutant of her abolition world-codemaniacs
emotional replicant::the murder-gimmick of a trash sensor
drug embryo DNA=channel to the mass of flesh-module of the
ultra=machinary tragedy-ROM creature system paradise device
of the human body pill cruel emulator that was send back out
the era respiration-byte of the soul/gram made of retro-ADAM
gene-dub to the modem=heart of the hybrid cadaver mechanism
that turned on the biocapturism nerve cells ill-treatment of the
dogs of tera murder game of a chemical=anthropoid.
you seem pretty sane to me ;)
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Until your posts dont look like Siratoris texts
the paradIse devIce of the human body pill cruel
emulator that compressed the acidHUMANIX infection of the
soul/gram made of retro-ADAM to the nightmare-scripts of the
biocapturism nerve cells that crashed a chemical=anthropoid
gene-dub mass of flesh-module of the ultra=machinary tragedyROM creature system to the murder-protocol data=mutant
processing organ BLog@trash sensor drug embryo DNA=channels
of the dogs of tera plug-in… .different of her digital=vamp coldblooded disease animals vital-abolition world-codemaniacs of
the terror fear=cytoplasm which turned on the ill-treatment of a
clone boy is debugged to the brain universe that was controlled.
Technojunkies hunting for the grotesque WEB=cadaver
feti=streaming circuit of the acidHUMANIX infection archive_
body encoder that jointed is output to the brain universe that was
processed the data=mutant of her abolition world-codemaniacs
emotional replicant::the murder-gimmick of a trash sensor
drug embryo DNA=channel to the mass of flesh-module of the
ultra=machinary tragedy-ROM creature system paradise device
of the human body pill cruel emulator that was send back out
the era respiration-byte of the soul/gram made of retro-ADAM
gene-dub to the modem=heart of the hybrid cadaver mechanism
that turned on the biocapturism nerve cells ill-treatment of the
dogs of tera murder game of a chemical=anthropoid.
you seem pretty sane to me ;)
That's just becasue I'm still getting up to speed, but I accept the challenge!
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Perhaps the distillery?
Now you're talking! ;D
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Wow....that end of the book? Not how I expected 'Jack to go out. I kinda hoped he would go out like The Captain.
Though, that picture of Slamm-O! saluting? That was cool.
'Jack will be missed. And another legend gone...
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Wow....that end of the book? Not how I expected 'Jack to go out. I kinda hoped he would go out like The Captain.
Though, that picture of Slamm-O! saluting? That was cool.
'Jack will be missed. And another legend gone...
He has not yet gone gentle into that good night - we may yet here from him again as they advance that plotline.
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Wow....that end of the book? Not how I expected 'Jack to go out. I kinda hoped he would go out like The Captain.
Though, that picture of Slamm-O! saluting? That was cool.
'Jack will be missed. And another legend gone...
He has not yet gone gentle into that good night - we may yet here from him again as they advance that plotline.
Yes, but how will we ever know it is REALLY 'Jack?
Of course, who else found how 'Jack tracked Plan 9's being taken over? By looking for LUCID comments.
I also like that they have stated that they want Storm Front to continue to be a useful supplement, so they
will be releasing a PDF of stat conversions for 5th Edition when it comes out.
Other things I have found interesting is: the final fate of Sirrurg is....unknown. Is he dead(and his Spirits carried
his body off so Aztechnology could not do to it like they did Dzibaltchen)? Was he just knocked out and his spirits
carried him to safety? That Lofwyr stepped down and the Dragon responsible for what happened to Jack and
others(it was in his facility, after all) was made Loremaster, and that Hestaby was sentenced to Shunning.
A whole bunch of things that leave the next edition ripe for interesting stuff...
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Hestaby stated pretty clear that Sirrug survived. Also, the dragon council decided what to do about him. Re-read recomended ;)
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Hestaby stated pretty clear that Sirrug survived. Also, the dragon council decided what to do about him. Re-read recomended ;)
Hey...I got alot from a first skim through because all my players were wanting a summary of EVERYTHING like 10 minutes after
I downloaded it!
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Long story short, the Great Dragons decided to deal with Sirrurg themselves, and put him in prison. Where? We don't know. How? We don't know. For how long? We don't know, though it is supposed to be at least several generations.
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This has now moved to the top of my read list for the weekend!!
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Long story short, the Great Dragons decided to deal with Sirrurg themselves, and put him in prison. Where? We don't know. How? We don't know. For how long? We don't know, though it is supposed to be at least several generations.
What's interesting to me is that the text refers to generations as being the metahuman equivalent. Meaning it may well be draconic generations.
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I kind of feel sorry for Hestaby. Well, someone falls, someone rises...
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I kind of feel sorry for Hestaby. Well, someone falls, someone rises...
Recently seen on ShadowSEA:
> LFG.
> Orange Queen
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I kind of feel sorry for Hestaby. Well, someone falls, someone rises...
Recently seen on ShadowSEA:
> LFG.
> Orange Queen
Heh. That'd be an interesting team to run with.
And yeah, Hestaby really got the short end of the stick in this whole thing. But since she's still alive and well (though stripped of most of her hoard), she may very well prove to be a larger presence in the shadows in 5E than the dragons have been in the current edition. And by that I mean actually being in the shadows, not just playing on the edges of things, like they always do. Haven't had a dragon really mixing things up themselves since Perianwyr quit the assassin business to run his club.
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Peri was a horror when he was doing assassin jobs. Imagine what a Shadowteam with a GREAT DRAGON on it can do!
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Some interresting ideas imo.
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Peri was a horror when he was doing assassin jobs. Imagine what a Shadowteam with a GREAT DRAGON on it can do!
I am, and I know Iceblade would love to be a part of such things. :)
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You know..I am trying to remember: what was Sirrurg called in Earthdawn? Of all the Greats, he has always been the kinda most confusing to me...
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Destroyer? :)
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"OH SHIT RUN!!!"
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In Earthdawn, Sirrurg was known as Usun, and he ruled over the Liaj Jungle much how Alamais was treating GeMiTo. He hunted where and when he pleased, and anything that chose to live in the jungle accepted that they could be his prey. Also, he helped Mountainshadow (Dunkelzhan), Icewing (Ghostwalker) and Vasdenjas create a ritual that cut off the Theran Empire's main city in Barsaive when the various kingdoms were gearing up for war. Yes, a magic ritual, on a power site, with four great dragons. You may all realize how very fortunate you were not to live in that city.
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When is the street date for the print book?
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March 27, 2013 (http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/03/13/new-marchapril-street-dates/). That would be next Wednesday.
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I just finished reading The Triumph of Atzlan and Fall of a Dragon chapters and I enjoyed them :D
The adult dragons are really powerful and the great dragons even far more powerful.
This brings me to one request for the next edition: please make the dragons statistics better match their power as described in all the fluff books.
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Got a copy of the book at PAX East this week-end and read it like on a trance on the flight back to France :)
Great book IMHO, and a great way to end the SR4 era. I like how it closes most of the current metaplots while giving a taste of what SR5 is going to be about.
I think I was only slightly disappointed by the way the duel between Ghostwalker and Harlequin ended. Not because it was badly written or anything of the sort, but mostly because I was all "oh my ghost, what's going to happen next?!" and it kinda ended with a big "To be continued". Oh well :) Still hoping for that "Harlequin's Revenge" campaign in SR5 :p (or maybe it shall rather be "Harlequin's Redemption" ?)
Very intrigued by what's going on with FastJack and the other victims of the whole "digital body snatchers" thing. Should provide a cool and very creepy storyline in SR5 (and a healthy dose of paranoia to the Sixth World :))
All in all, it was not as apocalyptic/crazy/holy sh*t than System Failure was, but I don't mind, because while I enjoyed it the end of SR3 was a bit over-the-top.
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My big picture plan for Ghostwalker, Harlequin, et al. goes many years out.
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Something was kinda bugging me about the pic on page 51.
At first, I thought it was the usual "The Troll is a human with horns and tusks" problem. Looking at it, though, I realize it
is that it is the 80's cartoon "Women are just skinny men with boobs" problem. combined with the "trolls are just humans
with horns and tusks" problem. I mean, she is so skinny, and her hips are skinny guy narrow, not the wider hips that is part
of female morphology. Combine this with her having more of a just muscled build.. Frankly, I am kinda disappointed by this
Fomori (has to be a Fomori because: no dermal deposits) :(
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Ok I want Mirikon's phone book and a few DOZEN more and the person who gave ok to finish the book the way it has... Seriously wtf ???
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Ok I want Mirikon's phone book and a few DOZEN more and the person who gave ok to finish the book the way it has... Seriously wtf ???
What seems to be the problem? This is slightly vague, and does nothing to help us improve things.
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Phonebook denied. Excellent use of WTF moments throughout the book, and I loved the hero's sendoff Fastjack got when he handed over the reigns.
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Something was kinda bugging me about the pic on page 51.
At first, I thought it was the usual "The Troll is a human with horns and tusks" problem. Looking at it, though, I realize it
is that it is the 80's cartoon "Women are just skinny men with boobs" problem. combined with the "trolls are just humans
with horns and tusks" problem. I mean, she is so skinny, and her hips are skinny guy narrow, not the wider hips that is part
of female morphology. Combine this with her having more of a just muscled build.. Frankly, I am kinda disappointed by this
Fomori (has to be a Fomori because: no dermal deposits) :(
Maybe the character is a he and not a she. Cross dressing trolls anyone?
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Ok I want Mirikon's phone book and a few DOZEN more and the person who gave ok to finish the book the way it has... Seriously wtf ???
What seems to be the problem? This is slightly vague, and does nothing to help us improve things.
Patrick as much as I love a good WTF moment that's not the way fastjack should have gone out, just so doesn't seem right to me.... Just sort doesn't make sense of everything I know of him not to have asked for help earlier... That's just how I see..... It's still a great piece of fiction and certainly makes an interesting starting point for the new edition....
Phonebook denied. Excellent use of WTF moments throughout the book, and I loved the hero's sendoff Fastjack got when he handed over the reigns.
*Packs one large hungry drop bear in crate and ships Mirikon the crate* here ya go in exchange for the phonebook :D
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Patrick as much as I love a good WTF moment that's not the way fastjack should have gone out, just so doesn't seem right to me.... Just sort doesn't make sense of everything I know of him not to have asked for help earlier... That's just how I see..... It's still a great piece of fiction and certainly makes an interesting starting point for the new edition....
I don't think you can say that Fastjack has "gone out" quite yet. I think he has quite a bit of fight left.
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Patrick as much as I love a good WTF moment that's not the way fastjack should have gone out, just so doesn't seem right to me.... Just sort doesn't make sense of everything I know of him not to have asked for help earlier... That's just how I see..... It's still a great piece of fiction and certainly makes an interesting starting point for the new edition....
You're forgetting three very important things about Fastjack, then. 1) People see him as a legend, and he knows it. 2) He's an old man, even if the Leonization keeps him physically younger. 3) He is the de facto leader of this elite band of runners, and is, therefore, responsible for their welfare to some degree.
How does this come into play here? It basically boils down to pride, stubborn grit, and the fact that he wants to keep his people out of the line of fire if he can. To compare with a real world ailment, have you ever known someone with Alzheimer's or dimensia? I have. They aren't going to ask for help, and admit that level of weakness. They will work as hard as they can to cope, and try to figure things out on their own, until someone does like Clockwork did, and forces them to admit reality. And really, let's expand the focus. How many people suffering from mental illness in general are going to get help themselves, without someone pushing them to do so? Not many.
Fastjack views Jackpoint as 'his people', and wouldn't voluntarily throw them to the wolves by having them seek out whatever the source of these digital bodysnatchers may be. He also doesn't want to cause a panic. If it can hit people like him and Miles Lanier, then it can get anyone. And that's a big problem for anyone who uses the Matrix. Which is everyone. And given that these bodysnatchers appear to be hostile, finding the truth may be every bit as dangerous as uncovering the reality of the Universal Brotherhood was. He would try to limit the numbers exposed to knowledge that is potentially a death sentence until he was sure of finding some way to stop it.
*Packs one large hungry drop bear in crate and ships Mirikon the crate* here ya go in exchange for the phonebook :D
*doesn't recognize the shipping address, marks "Return to Sender".
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Why do people keep assuming he'd get Leónization? Does it really make sense that FastJack would allow himself to be locked into a vat for six months?
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Why do people keep assuming he'd get Leónization? Does it really0 make sense that FastJack would allow himself to be locked into a vat for six months?
The intro to the chapter seemed to mention it.
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The fiction blurb that had him in it described him as physically old, grey, and wrinkled. So not likely that he's been leonized. Plus he's only 74.
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The fiction blurb that had him in it described him as physically old, grey, and wrinkled. So not likely that he's been leonized. Plus he's only 74.
This.
I avoided describing him physically in Conspiracy Theories (Hmm. I seem to recall that was the last time we saw him in the flesh) because you weren't supposed to know, but unless something changed—and Valashar's reference seems to back me up—he never got Leónization for pretty much the reason I mentioned.
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Patrick as much as I love a good WTF moment that's not the way fastjack should have gone out, just so doesn't seem right to me.... Just sort doesn't make sense of everything I know of him not to have asked for help earlier... That's just how I see..... It's still a great piece of fiction and certainly makes an interesting starting point for the new edition....
You're forgetting three very important things about Fastjack, then. 1) People see him as a legend, and he knows it. 2) He's an old man, even if the Leonization keeps him physically younger. 3) He is the de facto leader of this elite band of runners, and is, therefore, responsible for their welfare to some degree.
How does this come into play here? It basically boils down to pride, stubborn grit, and the fact that he wants to keep his people out of the line of fire if he can. To compare with a real world ailment, have you ever known someone with Alzheimer's or dimensia? I have. They aren't going to ask for help, and admit that level of weakness. They will work as hard as they can to cope, and try to figure things out on their own, until someone does like Clockwork did, and forces them to admit reality. And really, let's expand the focus. How many people suffering from mental illness in general are going to get help themselves, without someone pushing them to do so? Not many.
Fastjack views Jackpoint as 'his people', and wouldn't voluntarily throw them to the wolves by having them seek out whatever the source of these digital bodysnatchers may be. He also doesn't want to cause a panic. If it can hit people like him and Miles Lanier, then it can get anyone. And that's a big problem for anyone who uses the Matrix. Which is everyone. And given that these bodysnatchers appear to be hostile, finding the truth may be every bit as dangerous as uncovering the reality of the Universal Brotherhood was. He would try to limit the numbers exposed to knowledge that is potentially a death sentence until he was sure of finding some way to stop it.
*Packs one large hungry drop bear in crate and ships Mirikon the crate* here ya go in exchange for the phonebook :D
*doesn't recognize the shipping address, marks "Return to Sender".
I understand what your saying here Mirikon, I really do, I just don't like it personally that's all... Each to their own, will be really interesting to see the new edition books as to who will be the central moderator out the "unholy trinity".... And the drop bear was not supposed to get you was an exchange for the phonebook.... Next time I'll just send ya some vegemite (its worse than the drop bear) !!!
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@helion: bad choice. It doesnt matter if things make sense or not, Mirikon will always defend what is written, fighting passionately everyone who came with criticism. Sometimes it is pure fanatism, IMO ;)
ON THE OTHER SIDE
As much as I sometimes consider some events and plot upsets forced, NPC and Powers decisions irrational, unprofessinal or illogical, with every new sourcebook and piece of puzzle uncovered, authors always convience me that they know what they are doing, that they see a bit bigger picture and that they are sadisticaly dosing us those pieces with lot of fun, tension, expectations and surprise and that eventually you have to forget/forgive those details that made you unhappy, because the story as a whole makes sense, develops really good and makes the game and setting fun as hell to play. And they are able to surprise you. Which is good!
So, IMO Mirikon isnt that bad, after all :)
On the other side, dev team calls for constructive criticism and it looks like they are able to transform this feedback to improve and inovate. Which is ooosommm! :D
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I personally feel this is one of the best SR books ever written. Up there with Harlequin Returns and Cyberpirates! I couldn't put this book down.
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Yes. And you got +1 for Cyberpirates. I love that book. And Maria Francesca :)
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I am sincerely hoping the old man makes it thru his fight with whatever he's got to fight.... He's the one character I always loved and wanted to see the stats for but there are plenty of other interesting jack pointers too look at too... And yet another reason to punch the clock ;D
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I am sincerely hoping the old man makes it thru his fight with whatever he's got to fight.... He's the one character I always loved and wanted to see the stats for but there are plenty of other interesting jack pointers too look at too... And yet another reason to punch the clock ;D
Actually, and I can't believe I'm about to say this, Clockwork did good.
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Clockwork did it out of self interest, the fact that it makes him look a little better in other people's eyes is a bonus I don't think that really occurred to him, he just wanted a stable working environment.
"Dammit 'Jack, you can't leave me here as the last man standing. We had a deal.
Puck
This comment makes me wonder two things 1) as far as I'm aware puck is one of the later additions to jackpoint so there are older members so he can't be the last man standing (unless there's a hidden meaning here)
2) what deal did they make ????
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Puck was around from the beginning. However, around the time Unwired came out, he was searching for some Dissonant cultists related to Pax, and got nabbed by MCT.
As for the comments about 'last man standing' and 'we had a deal', that isn't clear, but it probably relates to Puck's past as one of the Whites.
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Puck was around from the beginning. However, around the time Unwired came out, he was searching for some Dissonant cultists related to Pax, and got nabbed by MCT.
As for the comments about 'last man standing' and 'we had a deal', that isn't clear, but it probably relates to Puck's past as one of the Whites.
Thanks for the correction concerning puck just spent the last 10 min trying to make sure I was right, and all my searching just confirmed what u said.... I do wonder what pax is up to ???? Could all the comments concerning connectivity issue with del mars new matrix design be something to do with a dissonant programming ????
EDIT: just a thought but puck would notice if that was wouldn't he ???? I doubt netcat would seeing as she hasn't really encountered any dissonant techno's
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If it was a dissonant thing, it would probably be immediately obvious to any technomancer, as Dissonance has a certain fundamental "wrongness". Also, it wouldn't fit with the goals of any known dissonant strain.
And Clockwork's motivations are irrelevant to the fact that his actions were a good thing.
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Clockwork is the Merle of shadowrun
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Pax is still alive (much to everyone's misfortune) and has been rallying dissonant technomancers to her cause. She's even taught some of her followers some kind of ritual technomancy that can corrupt AIs and make them ferals. (Read Corporate Intrigue for more)
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Clockwork is the Merle of shadowrun
Only Clockwork can kill Clockwork?
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I was under the impression that Pax was the one in charge of MTC's "Rose Garden", Dr. Sharon What's her face.
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No, the Rose Garden is sick and twisted, but it isn't Pax's brand of sick and twisted.
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If it was a dissonant thing, it would probably be immediately obvious to any technomancer, as Dissonance has a certain fundamental "wrongness". Also, it wouldn't fit with the goals of any known dissonant strain.
And Clockwork's motivations are irrelevant to the fact that his actions were a good thing.
Not to be a pain in the ass RHat but wasn't there a chat log (I think it might have been in threats 2 ) where pax is hiding under a different name and communicating with at least 2 "normal" technomancers and neither of them realise it till she brings in her two leutenants ????? If I'm right that could show that a normal technomancer might not realises with out excessive contact..... Then again I could be wrong and if I am i apologise in advance
As for clockwork well as I said I don't think he cares about good or bad just getting paid... But i doubt the other jackpointers will ever let him forget about his selling out of netcat no matter what good he will ever do
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If it was a dissonant thing, it would probably be immediately obvious to any technomancer, as Dissonance has a certain fundamental "wrongness". Also, it wouldn't fit with the goals of any known dissonant strain.
And Clockwork's motivations are irrelevant to the fact that his actions were a good thing.
Not to be a pain in the ass RHat but wasn't there a chat log (I think it might have been in threats 2 ) where pax is hiding under a different name and communicating with at least 2 "normal" technomancers and neither of them realise it till she brings in her two leutenants ????? If I'm right that could show that a normal technomancer might not realises with out excessive contact..... Then again I could be wrong and if I am i apologise in advance
No clue, but at that point we're talking about an entirely different thing. Otaku are not technomancers. They are conceptually linked, but they are not the same thing.
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"Dammit 'Jack, you can't leave me here as the last man standing. We had a deal.
Puck
This comment makes me wonder two things 1) as far as I'm aware puck is one of the later additions to jackpoint so there are older members so he can't be the last man standing (unless there's a hidden meaning here)
2) what deal did they make ????
You're the first one to catch this. Congrats!
1) There's a hidden, but discoverable, meaning.
2) A damn good question.
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"Dammit 'Jack, you can't leave me here as the last man standing. We had a deal.
Puck
This comment makes me wonder two things 1) as far as I'm aware puck is one of the later additions to jackpoint so there are older members so he can't be the last man standing (unless there's a hidden meaning here)
2) what deal did they make ????
You're the first one to catch this. Congrats!
1) There's a hidden, but discoverable, meaning.
2) A damn good question.
Ok now that makes me think Fastjack is a hacker that became a okuta, because that's the only similarity I can bring to mind.... And that makes a twisted kind of sense with pucks comment.... And it also freaks me out a little that I caught something like that
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FastJack has too much cyber to be a Technomancer. His daughter, OTOH...
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If it was a dissonant thing, it would probably be immediately obvious to any technomancer, as Dissonance has a certain fundamental "wrongness". Also, it wouldn't fit with the goals of any known dissonant strain.
And Clockwork's motivations are irrelevant to the fact that his actions were a good thing.
Not to be a pain in the ass RHat but wasn't there a chat log (I think it might have been in threats 2 ) where pax is hiding under a different name and communicating with at least 2 "normal" technomancers and neither of them realise it till she brings in her two leutenants ????? If I'm right that could show that a normal technomancer might not realises with out excessive contact..... Then again I could be wrong and if I am i apologise in advance
As for clockwork well as I said I don't think he cares about good or bad just getting paid... But i doubt the other jackpointers will ever let him forget about his selling out of netcat no matter what good he will ever do
The conversation with Pax and her followers crashing a discussion happened back in 3rd edition (Threats 2) when otaku were the resonance/dissonance kids. It predates crash 2.0 by three years or so.
And yeah, Fastjack's daughter, Perri is a technomancer who was an otaku beforehand. Pax used her has bait to try and kill Fastjack by trapping him in with his own personal copy of the Jormangund worm but he kicked its ass. (the story is in the SR4A main book, Happy Trails... the second piece of fiction in the book).
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FastJack has too much cyber to be a Technomancer. His daughter, OTOH...
If it was a dissonant thing, it would probably be immediately obvious to any technomancer, as Dissonance has a certain fundamental "wrongness". Also, it wouldn't fit with the goals of any known dissonant strain.
And Clockwork's motivations are irrelevant to the fact that his actions were a good thing.
Not to be a pain in the ass RHat but wasn't there a chat log (I think it might have been in threats 2 ) where pax is hiding under a different name and communicating with at least 2 "normal" technomancers and neither of them realise it till she brings in her two leutenants ????? If I'm right that could show that a normal technomancer might not realises with out excessive contact..... Then again I could be wrong and if I am i apologise in advance
No clue, but at that point we're talking about an entirely different thing. Otaku are not technomancers. They are conceptually linked, but they are not the same thing.
I think after all the searching I did last night thru entirely to many books I can safely say that otaku aren't technomancer, they can however evolve into them....
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Someday I'll learn not to post before my morning tea.
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Lol tea ???? Canray its coffee or a full strength btl version of some kind soul ingesting that needs to be consumed by your good self....
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Idn how much dissonant TM`s are recognizable RAW, but IMO toxic magicians are also able to pass standard assensing scan. If they decide to, i mean.
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Lol tea ???? Canray its coffee or a full strength btl version of some kind soul ingesting that needs to be consumed by your good self....
I gave up coffee after I realized I was up to three pots a day.
...
Actually, I gave up coffee after I decided to give up coffee. And, let me tell you, for a legal and widely used drug, it's not easy to kick.
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Actually, I gave up coffee after I decided to give up coffee. And, let me tell you, for a legal and widely used drug, it's not easy to kick.
Very much agreed, though it does remain my vice of choice... ;)
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I gave up the ciggies and that's pretty hard but I doubt I'd be able to give up coffee.... It's usually the available or legal drugs that are the worst...
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Not that I want to bring this back on topic, but WOW is this book great!
Here are some of my thoughts:
Dragons killing themselves, and the whole of humanity should be grateful of Lofwyr. (Horrible I know...)
Az-Am war finishes and we all knew who was going to win... (and hate them for it)
The AAA Japanese Threesom! (What more is there to say, WHO wouldn't like this? ;) )
Ares' betrayal to its clients (You have been my favorite since I opened my first book of SR. How could you make me doubt my Predator? Shame on you!)
The end of an Era. The machines will invade us, they control our mind! (FastJack, you will be missed)
After reading this, I have never felt this much connected to the SR universe. Great job to everyone who participated in its creation. Also, the crunchy parts at the end of the book are just incredible. Had I known this book was so awesome, I wouldn't have started a Pathfinder game 4 weeks ago. I would have had my players participate in the most epic moments of the SR universe. I guess I will have to lose inspiration for the Pathfinder game...
P.S. Is there a place where we can talk about what happened to FastJack and the others? A secret node within Jackpoint? We need to find out what these things are and how to stop them.
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Warmachinez I suspect very much that the Brain invaders (SEARCH) will not be explained in one hit its too much of a complex thing to get thru in one hit.... And I think that between Slammo! Glitch and Bull they don't really have a hell of a lot of a chance to get into jackpoint now that they are all aware of the signs.
But I will now have to start having to safe for the next pdf to see if I can figure out what pucks comment is about.... It has been bouncing around in my head the last couple of nights when I'm trying to go to sleep and certainly has kept me from getting to sleep on a couple of occasions.....
The other thing that bothers me/ suprises me is that Kane doesn't really say goodbye and that there are a couple of others who also seem to be missing in saying good bye...
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Warmachinez I suspect very much that the Brain invaders (SEARCH) will not be explained in one hit its too much of a complex thing to get thru in one hit.... And I think that between Slammo! Glitch and Bull they don't really have a hell of a lot of a chance to get into jackpoint now that they are all aware of the signs.
But I will now have to start having to safe for the next pdf to see if I can figure out what pucks comment is about.... It has been bouncing around in my head the last couple of nights when I'm trying to go to sleep and certainly has kept me from getting to sleep on a couple of occasions.....
The other thing that bothers me/ suprises me is that Kane doesn't really say goodbye and that there are a couple of others who also seem to be missing in saying good bye...
Its a loose professional network of.. well.. professional criminals. Not a book club,. Most of them aint friends, just aquitances at best. Respect the talent, but no personal connections (yes, this is not true for all of them though). Really not surprised. Besides, at least in Kane's case, not sure how close he and Jack really are?
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Also, you have to consider whether Kane would really post his feelings on an open board, instead of, say, hijacking a radio station in downtown Seattle to broadcast it while his guys are doing a job. Just sayin'.
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Mirikon, stop reading my damn run notes for my team's next job!
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I was under the impression that Pax was the one in charge of MTC's "Rose Garden", Dr. Sharon What's her face.
The Sharon in that context is a surname (here's an example you might have heard of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_sharon)), not a first name. IIRC, Dr. Sharon is a dude and thus probably not Pax.
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Yeah. Like every Nadja Daviar was born as a woman ;)
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Yeah. Like every Nadja Daviar was born as a woman ;)
This.
But, no, Dr. Catherine Sharon is a woman. Or at least she was last we saw her in Corporate Intrigue.
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But, no, Dr. Catherine Sharon is a woman. Or at least she was last we saw her in Corporate Intrigue.
Thing is, is Dr. Sharon a Transhumanist like Plan 9, and is a woman THIS WEEK?
This is Shadowrun after all...
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But, no, Dr. Catherine Sharon is a woman. Or at least she was last we saw her in Corporate Intrigue.
Thing is, is Dr. Sharon a Transhumanist like Plan 9, and is a woman THIS WEEK?
This is Shadowrun after all...
The kind of person who runs an operation putting technomancer brains in jars (and in cyborg bodies) against their will and driving them insane probably isn't big on the 'transhumanism' kick.
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But, no, Dr. Catherine Sharon is a woman. Or at least she was last we saw her in Corporate Intrigue.
Thing is, is Dr. Sharon a Transhumanist like Plan 9, and is a woman THIS WEEK?
This is Shadowrun after all...
The kind of person who runs an operation putting technomancer brains in jars (and in cyborg bodies) against their will and driving them insane probably isn't big on the 'transhumanism' kick.
I don't know, they could be far too into it - to the point that she's forcibly trying to bring some people into a posthuman state...
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Given everything I've read about her, I'm going to say the chances of that are about the same as Lofwyr suddenly giving up his post at Saeder-Krupp to Hestaby and going off to lead a quiet retirement in the mountains, reflecting on how much he enjoyed the company of his dear departed brother.
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Given everything I've read about her, I'm going to say the chances of that are about the same as Lofwyr suddenly giving up his post at Saeder-Krupp to Hestaby and going off to lead a quiet retirement in the mountains, reflecting on how much he enjoyed the company of his dear departed brother.
I've seen weirder things IRL.
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But, no, Dr. Catherine Sharon is a woman. Or at least she was last we saw her in Corporate Intrigue.
That'll teach me to post without checking my source material!
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Always lagging behind, as the rest of the world is only concerned about the latest piece of SR5 preview offered to the public, I finally put together a review of Storm Front.
Storm Front is a 196 pages long sourcebook (plus three pages of advertisement and one focus on the cover girl boobs). It is divided into eleven chapters, plus two short stories. It isn't labeled on the front cover as a "deep shadow sourcebook" or "campaign book" like most recent releases, but as "Sixth World Chaos". It covers events happening in 2074 and early 2075, playing the same role of conclusion to the Fourth edition than Blood in the Boardroom and System Failure respectively did for the second and third editions.
Larges parts of SF were released as teasers on shadowruntabletop.com (http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/coming-soon/eye-of-the-hurricane-1/shadowruntabletop.com) to be accessed by solving various puzzles.
Let's go for the spoiler tag, since the entire book is about either concluding or starting major plots. I'll sometimes extend by review to the plots themselves, as they reached their conclusion.
Eye of the Hurricane (3 pages, plus one full page illustration) is a short story about a technomancer in Italy whose "dealings" with the 'Ndrangheta are interrupted by a fight between dragon. It worked well enough as a separate teaser. I'm less convinced as actual sourcebook content (but, on the other hand, I often get bored by short stories after the first page).
The Triumph of Aztlan (26 pages) is about the war of Colombia and the Aztlan attempt to take on great dragon Sirrurg. This war, that began in the aftermath of Ghost Cartels, has been a central point in late fourth edition.
It goes on to make a recap of the whole war... which can be sumed for a large part to "Aztlan advanced fifty kilometers and then Amazonia pushed them back." Considering how often the recent sourcebooks failed to properly introduce the ongoing events and seemed to assume you had thoroughly bought and read every book released previous, you can't blame them for doing it. It leaves me with the impression that the whole war of Colombia plot never had any of the freelancers really inspired or interested (Storm Front doesn't even got the right date for the start of the war). War! only covered the very first few months of the war. Past that point, only Colombian Subterfuge and two adventures from Jet Set, Photo Ops and Operation Blindside, have really used this "central point" as an actual setting (there were a bunch of other adventures for which the war was nothing more than a decorum for Horizon/Aztechnology confrontation, that could have taken place just as well in Los Angeles, Denver or anywhere else).
To me, the most telling point is how we got to learn about every single place Sirrurg attacked from Cali, the only places he hit in actual in Colombia (which is 300 kilometers away from Bogotá and the supposed front-line), to Lubbock, Midlands and Seminole, Texas. You have to dig deep to find the name of places in Colombia where fightings actually took place (found one, Yopal).
In Storm Front the war again takes a backseat while Sirrurg action gets all the spotlight. The major thing happening is operation Marauder, the Aztlan army attempt at taking down Sirrurg. On that one, I can't help but thinking the authors wrote themselves in a corner. The paradigm is held so far that immortal players cannot be stopped or defeated by mortal forces (as shown with Harlequin in "The Things We Do For Love" in The Clutch of Dragons). The old Horrors metaplot is so reviled that I guess the authors were reluctant to give Aztechnology some dark plot magic that could rival the immortals'. So we were stuck in a situation were Sirrurg could lead an eternal guerrilla against Aztlan and nothing would stop him. Storm Front is putting an end to it, by throwing a large force and equally large losses, some secret biochemical weapon and a bit of magic on top of that, but without daring to kill the dragon.
While Sirrurg had never operated anywhere near the frontline, his defeat happens just at the right time to pave the way for the war to end, as the United Nations side with Aztlan (which I wouldn't find that surprising, considering that as far as market economy and developed countries short-term interests are concerned, Amazonia ecological revolution is way more evil than Aztechnology dark magic practices). The Free Marine Corps get a lot of spotlight for no real added value (besides, I find it kinda ridiculous to suggest a CAS air carrier and a FMC amphibious assault group could somehow "sneak" from the Aztlan Gulf to the Pacific Ocean).
Fall of a Dragon (28 pages) covers the dragons "civil war". It summarizes a bunch of things from The Clutch of Dragons and adds a conclusion on top of it. The major point is Lofwyr leading an attack against Alamais in northern Italy and Hestaby getting "exiled" and stripped of her possessions. It tries hard to make it an epic battle by having a lot of casualties, and thus starts with large forces. It didn't work with me, for the reason stated above: mortal forces are no match for immortal players. Lofwyr is playing an act for some reasons that I didn't buy. In the end, the entire dragon civil war felt to me like someone thought the fourth edition needed a big plot, and involving all the great dragons was a simple way to make it big.
This chapter carries on (what I hold to be) a failure from The Clutch of Dragons with the plot of entire families disappearing with their assets. It does state no one know for sure and let alone can prove who's behind this and why they are targeted, yet it must be dragons because... No reason is given but it's written in the middle of a chapter about dragons.
Another failure is the final part of the chapter is Frosty report on a secret dragons assembly that she recounts like it was your typical Washington backroom deal. Frost, the DIVE and Wyrm Watcher appear to have several sources that told them about what happened during a meeting only attended by dragons.
Those two things makes me say that the author has trouble adjusting to the typical SR in-context Shadowland/Jackpoint posting format.
Seattle Shakes (24 pages) follows Missions season 4 and Dirty Tricks. I didn't take the time to compare DT and SF side-by-side, so I'm left wondering what was actually new. I got the same impression that parts of it were just a recap of the Missions, and that I was, so to speak, late at the party. It does bring the Seattle city hall politics that I think have been too rare in Shadowrun through the years.
My major grievance about the chapter is the lack of proper introduction when names are dropped. So you're left to guess who are the Skraacha, Marin Parker, Tosh Athack or the Black Knights for a few pages, if you're told at all. The text also rarely attach actual dates to the events recounted, which left me a bit puzzled to know at which point Dana Oaks was District Attorney, Assistant District Attorney or Acting District Attorney, and if she actually got "brutally murdered" in March 2074.
The idea of making the underground a separate district hurts a bit my suspension of disbelief on how big the place can be and the legal issues of having an administrative division on top of another (I also noticed that past Seattle sourcebooks used "districts" in various ways: within the "Seattle Downtown District" are the "Elven District", the "International District" and the "University District"). But I can understand rules of cool and all that.
Lightning in Denver (25 pages) narrates the events in Denver as Harlequin tries to enact his revenge on Ghostwalker for Aina's death. Though this motivation, or just Aina's name are actually not mentioned anywhere... Upon reading, the escalation from little gang warfare to the final fight really got me thrilled. Though the events take place over several weeks and how things slowly assembled as pressure grows to lead the final showdown. I was a bit disappointed when I read the adventures described in Game Information who, it makes sense, put the runners in charge of doing things and thus planning and building the pressure, rather than put them in position to feel it builds up around them. Maybe a ZDF campaign would be best.
Another problem is, you got to learn about the situation through only chats and posting of people who try to figure out what's happening in real-time, while there are something like sixteen different parties involved (Harlequin, Ghostwalker, Zebulon, the ZDF, Dean Costello, the Godz, Fronts, Aurora Angels and Zombies gangs, Alamos 20,000, the Nexus, the Yamato clan, Tenebrous, Puck, Frosty, Ehran, Aztechnology and Maelstrom and Oblivion). In this regards, involving Puck really felt an unnecessary complication.
As I said when the plot was originally introduced in The Clutch of Dragons, I find it disappointing that it doesn't dare to end it with the death of either Ghostwalker or Harlequin (though I considered at some point a possible twist that could in satisfying way). The climax falls flat as two immortal beings fighting to death are just told to calm down and do so, because two Deus Ex Machina arrive to threaten the city.
Ares Trembles (28 pages)
This chapter concludes the Excalibur Battle Rifle plot, an ties it to the Ares Bug Hives. It acknowledges a single rifle would never take down an entire megacorporation and turns it into a brand image issue.
What I held to be the biggest documentation failure in this chapter, and possibly the entire book, is how Nicholas Aurelius Junior is made responsible for the Ares bugs projects, while being completely oblivious to the fact that he left Ares for Cross Applied Technologies in 2059, and did not return to Ares before 2072. It really looks like a name tossed without bothering to take a look at the past history between Damien Knight, Aurelius and Gavilan Ventures.
Ares' fate is left pending. I doubt one of the most iconic megacorporation and one of the most iconic CEO of Shadowrun are ever going to be thrown out. Maybe I'm in for a surprise. I would be less surprised if the suggested merger between Ares and Horizon was to take place (afterall, you can wonder if there was a need to introduce a corporation like Horizon when Ares already had a major media division and owned Apple corp).
First Among Equals (5 pages) gives the result of the Prince Council election in Tir Tairngire. The Telestrian family gets several ot ifs member on the Council, including the new High Prince Mary-Louise Telestrian. Small update, nothing really thrilling. The Telestrian corporation and the Telestrian family now are the dominant power in the country. As it puts it in its conclusion "The borders will remain (comparatively) open, the atmosphere will stay (relatively) friendly to outsiders, and the economy will continue to grow"
The Artful Dodger (3 pages) is an update on Dodger status. The new Matrix design is used as a background, without giving anything significant that is also told in The Cracks Inside. For the rest, it's mere nostalgia. Having formed no particular bond with Dodger myself, it left me unimpressed.
Sleeping With the Enemy (5 pages) introduces changes for the HMHVV: harsher sunlight sensitivity for no reason (outside the usual "mana level rise"), more feral ghouls because the statistics were rigged (and the mana level rose I guess). And Martin de Vries is forced into hiding. So basically everything to put HMHVV out of PC options and into the "critters" category. Not that I personally really mind about it. But it reads too much like a mechanical adjustment and not enough like a compelling story you want to tell as a GM. The idea to explain Asamando good fortune as the result of lucrative deals with megacorporations to run prisons would deserve to be more expanded upon.
Maybe it's just the teaser for an epic campaign from Asamondo prisons to the Ordo Maximus club in London, with Martin de Vries as a guest star, but if so, it's not a very good teaser (and the more I think about it, the more it sounds like an Emergence in reverse, a whole plot just for the sake of adding/removing PC options).
Escaping the Ghost Decade (6 pages and a half) is an update on Shiawase, Mitsuhama and Renraku. It somewhat acknowledges that they didn't see a lot of actions during the late 4th edition. The introduction emphasizes on the alliance of the Japanese corporations, as it already used to be in the past. Shiawase remains the traditionalist corporation, aligned on Shinto spirituals and the Emperor words. The fact that Mitsuhama gets a distinct section maybe is the most distinctive thing there is to say about "the-Japanese-corp-that-is-not-Shiawase-or-Renraku," though there are a bit of random corporate plots ongoing (the fact the title simply reads "Mitsuhama Computer Technologies" while the other two are "Shiawase, the Emperor's Hand" and "Rebooting Renraku" is telling). Renraku gets a new focus on services, and a new boss, and that's about it.
I, for myself, still find disappointing that no one rather extends on Renraku historical specificities, as an European corporation taken over by Japanese investors, who put their fate in the hands of the North American division, and how those cultures interact.
Fractures (4 pages) is a short story with Fastjack about [spoil] his personality disorder. Most Shadowland or Jackpoint posters got to leave with a one-liner somewhere, so it can be said Fastjack here got some preferential treatment for an exit with style for his tenure.
The Cracks Inside (31 pages) is a collection of articles on the Matrix changes. It quickly introduces the new Matrix security protocols, then gives some information and examples of nanotechnology malfunction and the personality disorder that seems to be related. It stands out a bit in the book as it gave some vents away but doesn't get behind the scenes (even the Game Information in the following chapter go away stating the full details "will be revealed in upcoming sourcebooks").
Game Information (11 pages) is information for the gamemaster. It features stats for a Priest M. Johnson, Sirrurg, Alamais, Jane Foster, Harlequin, Perianwyr and Martin de Vries (some of them copied from previous books). The two great are a tad weaker than Hestaby and Lofwyr were in Street Legends and Street Legends Supplemental. There is also one adventure hook related to Sirrurg, five hooks related to Alamais, two hooks for Seattle politics, eleven hooks for Denver and two hooks for Ares Macrotechnology.
It seems to be extra information provided on a voluntary, non-mandatory basis. The author for the Tir Tairngire chapter seemed to get away without providing any GI, while the author for the Cracks Inside with litle more than a placeholder. On the other hand, copying Frosty stats is mostly a filler (she does appear during the Denver events and one of the plot hook, but her stats serve no real purpose considering the much more powerful Ehran, for which no stat are given, is also present).
I find it difficult to give an overall assessment of Storm Front. The fact that it gives as a conclusion for ongoing plots, and also possibly that a significant part of the book was released as teasers left little room for surprise. As I said, Sirrurg and Denver situation already put themselves in a corner. Everyone expected the "good guys" to win in Seattle. And since it was pretty obvious the Matrix rules would be revamped (again) in the 5th edition, the outcome of the Danielle de la Mar initiative was clear from the moment it was introduced in Jet Set.
I was actually expecting much bigger thing to happen after reading Dirty Tricks and The Clutch of Dragons, like the death of Ghostwalker or a war in North America (but maybe it was actually proposed and turned out). So, no big surprise, just the 4th edition getting to an end. I guess it's somewhat telling that I commented the plots in their entirety instead of just SF content. At least, most if not all chapters don't require the previous sourcebooks, but major points are missing here and here (the death of Aina, how DA Oaks faked death...).
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For some additional comments:
- Again, a corporate index was used to pull off corporation names without bothering to look for details. Among four corporations forced into insolvency as part of the dragon civil war is Baihu Corporation, which was, according to Shadows of Asia, a AA megacorporation and the second largest Chinese corporation, after Wuxing. Covered in a single sentence.
- In Lightning in Denver, the DIA acronym is used indifferently (and without any explanations) to refer to both the Denver International Airport (as in "the DIA air traffic control") and the UCAS Defense Intelligence Agency (as in "the UCAS is waiting on the DIA to provide more intel"). It can be guessed from context, but can be confusing if you don't pay enough attention.
- The book mentions the ZDF's Cyber Defense Division as involved in hackers matters. As far as I can tell, use of the "cyber" term to specifically refer to network operations has been rare in Shadowrun so far, due to its much more widespread use to refer to cyber-implants.
- Seattle "Who's who" gives a different analysis of the 2057 Presidential campaign on page 64 than Shadowland did at the time. The revelation that Kenneth Brackhaven was secretly adopted to replaced the ork son of the Brackhaven family is said to have a "devastating effect," while it was previously described (in Dunkelzahn's Secrets: Portfolio of a Dragon, page 58) as "[hurting] Brackhaven's campaign... for about five minutes."
- The Ares Excalibur assault rifle is referred to as the M-256. For armaments, the M-something designation normally refers to US Army Nomenclature System attributed upon acceptation (as in M16, M4, M60, M240...). It's not clear if the author was aware of this and thus suggest the Excalibur has been accepted by the UCAS Army (or CAS Army?) or if he simply thought it sounded cooler for a gun.
- Disguised HK G36 has been used to fake Excalibur demonstrations. The G36 design first came out in 1997, eighty years ago. Unless the footage was really heavily edited, this would imply the Excalibur fires cased ammunitions.
- The Ares Trembles chapter conclusion is that Ares is "likely one good shadowrun away from the Corporate Court knocking them down to AA status". Considering the Corporate Court bylaws guarantee the founding corporations like Ares always retain one justice seat on the court and thus AAA status, it would be one hell of a shadowrun. Even more if you consider that by May 2072, Ares even had two justice seats it would have to be stripped off before losing AAA status.
- I already mentioned the name dropping that occurred in "Seattle Shakes". The book is again guilty of this in a few other places: /dev/grrl refers to Albuquerque in "The Artful Dodger" without providing any context for it if you haven't read The Clutch of Dragons (otherwise, you need to read 35 pages more before getting to understand) ; knowledge of what the "Neo-Genyosha" first mentioned in Corporate Guide and the "Sangre Del Diablo" from War! are is also taken for granted.
- The Entropy spell described on page 187 has the same effect than what Sirrurg did in Cali, yet it needed something more. The spell requires line of sight, which Sirrurg is unlikely to have had on all the victims, and it affects a number of victim up to the Force it's cast at. Considering ten thousand people were killed in Cali, Sirrurg simply doesn't have a Magic attribute high enough to pull it out.
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- In Lightning in Denver, the DIA acronym is used indifferently (and without any explanations) to refer to both the Denver International Airport (as in "the DIA air traffic control") and the UCAS Defense Intelligence Agency (as in "the UCAS is waiting on the DIA to provide more intel"). It can be guessed from context, but can be confusing if you don't pay enough attention.
This happens in real life all too often. NATO? North American Theater Organization. NRA? Either the National Restaurant Association or the National Rocketry Association. PETA? People Eating Tasty Animals.
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This happens in real life all too often. NATO? North American Theater Organization. NRA? Either the National Restaurant Association or the National Rocketry Association. PETA? People Eating Tasty Animals.
Some are random, other are hazardous jokes, and some like the latter pure trolling;)
Very interesting review, Nath. Thanks:)
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- In Lightning in Denver, the DIA acronym is used indifferently (and without any explanations) to refer to both the Denver International Airport (as in "the DIA air traffic control") and the UCAS Defense Intelligence Agency (as in "the UCAS is waiting on the DIA to provide more intel"). It can be guessed from context, but can be confusing if you don't pay enough attention.
This happens in real life all too often. NATO? North American Theater Organization. NRA? Either the National Restaurant Association or the National Rocketry Association. PETA? People Eating Tasty Animals.
True, but in a rpg book it does make it hard to follow what's going on.
As someone who can only read a Shadowrun book every now and then (I may own them all, but I haven't even got through the core rulebooks yet...) it is really, really hard to follow the plot sourcebooks at times. I don't have many complaints about these books, I generally do enjoy them... but they are very tiring to read because I have to spend time either working out what they are refering to or just ignore/gloss over whole sections.
I hope the new books resolve this problem, perhaps by keeping the number and direction of plot lines tighter?
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- The book mentions the ZDF's Cyber Defense Division as involved in hackers matters. As far as I can tell, use of the "cyber" term to specifically refer to network operations has been rare in Shadowrun so far, due to its much more widespread use to refer to cyber-implants.
Or "cyberdeck," ne?
- Disguised HK G36 has been used to fake Excalibur demonstrations. The G36 design first came out in 1997, eighty years ago. Unless the footage was really heavily edited, this would imply the Excalibur fires cased ammunitions.
The Shadowrun history diverged from real history in 1989. So HK didn't necessarily come out with the G36 in 1997.
- The Entropy spell described on page 187 has the same effect than what Sirrurg did in Cali, yet it needed something more. The spell requires line of sight, which Sirrurg is unlikely to have had on all the victims, and it affects a number of victim up to the Force it's cast at. Considering ten thousand people were killed in Cali, Sirrurg simply doesn't have a Magic attribute high enough to pull it out.
Do you find it equally unlikely that Sirrurg knows Ritual Spellcasting?
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- The Entropy spell described on page 187 has the same effect than what Sirrurg did in Cali, yet it needed something more. The spell requires line of sight, which Sirrurg is unlikely to have had on all the victims, and it affects a number of victim up to the Force it's cast at. Considering ten thousand people were killed in Cali, Sirrurg simply doesn't have a Magic attribute high enough to pull it out.
Do you find it equally unlikely that Sirrurg knows Ritual Spellcasting?
As far as SR4 rules go, Ritual Spellcasting is still not enough. It sure isn't hard to create a Force 10,000 Magical Lodge: it only requires twenty-seven years of work and a ten kilometers radius. Then Sirrurg can form a ritual group with a single magician who just need Magic 1 and Ritual Spellcasting 2, overcast the spell with him in a single hour at Force 10,000, and burn Edge to survive Drain with the Hand of God.
But they still can't get all the targets in visual range from the magical lodge, nor can the one acting as a spotter "travel physically or astrally to where she can assense the target of the spell" because the astral shadows of buildings are opaque and will hide some people (probably the vast majority, considering people rarely hand out in the streets during a battle). Unless Sirrurg first had initiates crafting one symbolic link for every people that would be in Cali business district on January 18th, 2071 (he can't do it himself, as he doesn't have the Sympathetic Link metamagic...).
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- The Entropy spell described on page 187 has the same effect than what Sirrurg did in Cali, yet it needed something more. The spell requires line of sight, which Sirrurg is unlikely to have had on all the victims, and it affects a number of victim up to the Force it's cast at. Considering ten thousand people were killed in Cali, Sirrurg simply doesn't have a Magic attribute high enough to pull it out.
Do you find it equally unlikely that Sirrurg knows Ritual Spellcasting?
As far as SR4 rules go, Ritual Spellcasting is still not enough. It sure isn't hard to create a Force 10,000 Magical Lodge: it only requires twenty-seven years of work and a ten kilometers radius. Then Sirrurg can form a ritual group with a single magician who just need Magic 1 and Ritual Spellcasting 2, overcast the spell with him in a single hour at Force 10,000, and burn Edge to survive Drain with the Hand of God.
But they still can't get all the targets in visual range from the magical lodge, nor can the one acting as a spotter "travel physically or astrally to where she can assense the target of the spell" because the astral shadows of buildings are opaque and will hide some people (probably the vast majority, considering people rarely hand out in the streets during a battle). Unless Sirrurg first spend another twenty-seven years to craft a symbolic link for every people that would be in Cali business district on January 18th, 2071...
Or maybe Sirrug knows some tricks the rest of the world doesn't...
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Or maybe Sirrug knows some tricks the rest of the world doesn't...
Which is what I meant when I wrote "it needed something more".
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Or maybe Sirrug knows some tricks the rest of the world doesn't...
<WARNING: SNARK ENGAGED> What, a dragon knows something the rest of metahumanity doesn't? NO WAY! Who would have known....<SNARK DISENGAGED>
8)
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I am not going to make characters not speak in the jargon that they should and would speak in because distinguishing abbreviations and acronyms requires context. I've reined the language in when it could have been much worse, but it's not rocket science.
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Well, someone was able to cast a spell that pierced 3 great and multiple lesser dragons combined counterspelling and serriously wound Loremaster :p
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So maybe somebody knows something even greats doesnt know...
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- Disguised HK G36 has been used to fake Excalibur demonstrations. The G36 design first came out in 1997, eighty years ago. Unless the footage was really heavily edited, this would imply the Excalibur fires cased ammunitions.
The Shadowrun history diverged from real history in 1989. So HK didn't necessarily come out with the G36 in 1997.
The G36 nonetheless fires cased ammunition, per Gun Heaven, page 27: "The G-36 utilizes conventional cased cartridges that matched preexisting stockpiles."
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That was a big ritual from a magical group, right?
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You bigger than Azzies and Smoking Mirror are able to asembly?
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'You mean'...
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That said, this is nitpicking (?) I like the book. Well. Most of it...
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For some reason I got something in my head about it being pretty much a war declaration from a magical group on the dragons. Can't say I blame them much.
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Apparently some people are going to die in next 12 month. And Im not talking about old, poor or sick people...
About those bloodlines disappearing...somehow it reminds me Herodes attempt to avoid inevitable...
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I am not going to make characters not speak in the jargon that they should and would speak in because distinguishing abbreviations and acronyms requires context. I've reined the language in when it could have been much worse, but it's not rocket science.
There are other solutions.
For a casual, sometimes reader, its challenging. Its only through these forums that I can understand what is happenng in the books. And even then, I know a large chunk of what is going on is being missed.
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<WARNING: SNARK ENGAGED> What, a dragon knows something the rest of metahumanity doesn't? NO WAY! Who would have known....<SNARK DISENGAGED>
8)
I hate when people do that. Can't people admit there is a mistake, instead of mocking the one who pointed it.
Well, someone was able to cast a spell that pierced 3 great and multiple lesser dragons combined counterspelling and serriously wound Loremaster :p
Are you talking about a specific event of Storm Front? (really need to read it)
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I hate when people do that. Can't people admit there is a mistake, instead of mocking the one who pointed it.
Only if it actually is a mistake.
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Some things likely are handwaved. Rule of cool and all that.
As for Lofwyr getting hit by a ritual spell, that's in Storm Front yes.
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Thanks.
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I hate when people do that. Can't people admit there is a mistake, instead of mocking the one who pointed it.
Only if it actually is a mistake.
Indeed. Just because you don't know how it was done, and can't replicate it under what you know doesn't mean that it is a mistake. First, it is well established that dragon magic in general just doesn't work like metahuman magic does. At best, we can imitate effects, but the process is different. Second, Great Dragon rituals are on a power level that they typically refuse to use them at all, because it is that nasty. One ritual involving great dragons put an impenetrable wall of True Air over an entire city, and drew in a massive cloud of corruption the likes of which had not been seen before, killing everything in the city and turning them into the undead. That cloud of corruption also absorbed a squadron of four airships, killed a great dragon infused with a Horror, and then split up, causing havoc across what would become Europe. Another example of ritual magic by dragons is when Hestaby launched an attack on Alamais and his folllowers, and the resultant explosion cut through the counterspelling of a great dragon and four lesser dragons, killing two of the lessers, gravely wounding the other two, putting a serious hurt on Alamais, and destroying the anchored protections in his compound, all the while without causing collateral damage to the city outside.
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And despite all her hard work, she still got exiled.
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And despite all her hard work, she still got exiled.
I'm honestly not sure that exile wasn't part of her over-arching plan. She has something up that poofy sleeve of hers, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it is.
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And despite all her hard work, she still got exiled.
I'm honestly not sure that exile wasn't part of her over-arching plan. She has something up that poofy sleeve of hers, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it is.
So glad I'm not the only one to think that. Might be she needs to be outside the laws and customs of dragonkind for something.
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I hate when people do that. Can't people admit there is a mistake, instead of mocking the one who pointed it.
Only if it actually is a mistake.
Indeed. [Points I wasn't aware of but still agree with]
Well, I guess if Nath said it needed something else (so finally, you agree with him), it was because the spell may have been described as the one used by Sirrurg.
And actually, the fact that it could have been powered by Dragon Magic was not even the first idea of Aaron (who might be one of the guys in charge around, unless I am mistaken >that is to say, one of the guys who could have one of the most "official" and rule fitting explanations).
Instead, we have been offered Ritual Spellcasting, which is ruled in such way that it needs tremendous amounts of efforts to pull such a trick.
Conclusion; the fact that we are not bluntly said "it is Dragon. Nuff'" or "plot device", means that they had no idea, and that they could fit it in the rules.
It is ok, errare humanum est (actually, it could have been helped with a little research like the fact of using corps names without link to their background, but ok, SR love is huge).
And then, we have the "smart" reaction of Mystic which made me react.
Do you understand my meaning now?
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And despite all her hard work, she still got exiled.
I'm honestly not sure that exile wasn't part of her over-arching plan. She has something up that poofy sleeve of hers, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it is.
Figured she can work with it, but the death of half a thousand of her loyal followers? No way that was intended. Buthey, if Lofwyr is willing to kill 500 of his executives as apology, I might consider not labelling the three dragon corps as traitors of the sixth World and allies of the Horrors. Doubt he'll do that though, so he's off my partylist.
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And despite all her hard work, she still got exiled.
I'm honestly not sure that exile wasn't part of her over-arching plan. She has something up that poofy sleeve of hers, but I'm damned if I can figure out what it is.
Figured she can work with it, but the death of half a thousand of her loyal followers? No way that was intended. Buthey, if Lofwyr is willing to kill 500 of his executives as apology, I might consider not labelling the three dragon corps as traitors of the sixth World and allies of the Horrors. Doubt he'll do that though, so he's off my partylist.
Agreed that Hestaby has a plan. Not sure what the plan is, but she has a plan. Dragons ALWAYS have a plan. And sometimes those plans involve taking a significant hit to their hoard and followers in the short term, for long term gains. The loss of the Shasta Shamans and her lair hurt, natch, but if the end goal is big enough, that could be coming off cheap for a potential payoff.
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Yeah, but Celedyr's own plan is based on the fact that Lofwyr has a plan that accounts for Hestaby having a plan...
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Figured she can work with it, but the death of half a thousand of her loyal followers? No way that was intended. Buthey, if Lofwyr is willing to kill 500 of his executives as apology, I might consider not labelling the three dragon corps as traitors of the sixth World and allies of the Horrors. Doubt he'll do that though, so he's off my partylist.
Depending on what she had in mind...that's cheap. If it puts key pieces for her future plans in place, I don't doubt for a moment that she'd sacrifice all of the Shasta Shamans, let them blow Mount Shasta to its component atoms, and throw in a couple of other nuggets on the side, and never bat an eye about it. She was trying to position herself as the next Dunkelzahn, and either that didn't work out and she figured out how to just drop it and walk away (not something that's easy for dragons), or she's not done yet (which is where my money is sitting at the moment, but it's not too late to change my bet; that wheel's still spinning, and they haven't cast the ball in yet).
She didn't get where she was by being stupid, and neither did any of the other Greats. They know she's up to something, and she knows that they know, and that's just part of the game when you play with the big kids. It's not a matter of them having plans taking other plans into consideration; they all do that. It's about their ability to extrapolate the plans of the others.
She's dancing with Lofwyr and Celedyr and a couple of the other Greats, and the night is still young. This could get interesting.
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In other words, a good plan does not rely on others' decisions, it withstands them.
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I think there's probably room for both, but yeah, that kind of sums things up for me. At some point, one of the plans is going to break down and that's going to enable someone else to take advantage of the bad thing happening.
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You all seem to consider all dragonkind as cold snakes willing to sacrifice their allies and friends in order to achieve their goals without holding their breath a second, but I am not thinking the same. Big D was not like that, and some have proven very friendly and very caring about their allies and so on.
Someone told in another topic that they took interpreter while they can morph in metahuman because they are and feel so much above us,
but I don't think a dragon would have sacrificed himself if it was the case for him. Not even for being "the savior". His testament showed all the good he thought of metahumans and other living things, and I think at least a few other great are in this case.
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You all seem to consider all dragonkind as cold snakes willing to sacrifice their allies and friends in order to achieve their goals without holding their breath a second, but I am not thinking the same. Big D was not like that, and some have proven very friendly and very caring about their allies and so on.
Someone told in another topic that they took interpreter while they can morph in metahuman because they are and feel so much above us,
but I don't think a dragon would have sacrificed himself if it was the case for him. Not even for being "the savior". His testament showed all the good he thought of metahumans and other living things, and I think at least a few other great are in this case.
There's a difference between public and private personas, Boomstick. Big D might not have come off as being a manipulative bastard willing to move people around like so many pawns on the chess board, but his will clearly showed what the score was. For instance, the part where he strips this guy of his SIN, bank accounts, everything, and puts a bounty on his head for a week, after which time if he shows up to the Draco Foundation, he gets his stuff back, assuming no one's cashed in on him yet.
It isn't just dragons. Immortal Elves, national leaders, and megacorp CEOs are right up there as well. You don't get to the highest levels of power without manipulating those below you, and knowing how to make sacrifices to further your own ends when need be. Sometimes those ends are self-serving, and sometimes they are 'the greater good', but the actions are all the same. You manipulate and control people using whatever means you can, and sacrifice pieces when you need to. Otherwise, you lose.
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Also, Big D's sacrifice was protecting everyone - including all of dragonkind.
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Big D's Will triggered the Corporate War. His actions, whatever their purpose, were far reaching, manipulative and costed many lives. Sometimes looking at the Big Picture means sacrifcing the little guys now. And heck, when your an immortal, you know there all going to die sooner or later, best not worry about how long they live, but how they live.
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There's a difference between public and private personas, Boomstick.
Even in parts that show behind the scene, he don't behave like the relentless kind that could be spearheaded by Lofwyr. I don't mean to say he is harmless and easy going (instance of the guy who crossed the dragon -a rare example-, he managed to pull it but maybe he did not live to laugh about it), proof is his will that showed he was quite a busy fellow, but that doesn't mean he would sacrifice his friends. He would involve them if feeling compelled to it, but then that would be their choice (Harlequin could be a good example). Runners, they are not the same, they are tools for everyone. And I guess he was more honest to them that most corps.
On the other hand, I don't know much of his friendship (I think his translator had been a friend), but most that I know are with guys who can handle themselves pretty well, like Harlequin and Damien Knight.
RHat: Agree with that. But I think that went far beyond the duties of Loremaster, even if he also did that for his kind and for nailing Horrors with whom he had to settle scores. I quite remember a passage of the will when he says something like he learned from humans and that their flaws give them a very good will to surpass themselves that is pretty inspiring. Plus a large display of sheer love for human culture (old songs, cars, food and so on. Not something a frigging Great would need. But hey, under the scales there was a beating heart...).
The simple fact he made a will instead of letting the things to perform in the draconic way, was as a loremaster some kind of offense, but still no one thought twice about kicking the table and claiming the title. Actually, that could have been (I think there was a few shakles, but they were stopped quickly by the most powerful of the greats). But he forced all his kind to respect a tradition and a law of mere, lowly humans.
If that is not a kick in the face, and a display of affection for us as a whole, I don't know what it is.
Indeed it was a double edged sword, it was intented to start moving things in the shadows, but he could have done so without that. He could have just put guys in charge, he knew capable ones, and let things go.
So I ll stay on my position there, unless example are made where he behave like a sneaky bastard toward someone who trusted him.
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Survival of the Fittest was based on Ghostwalker getting pissed off and trying to upturn the table.
Unfortunately for him he lost twice. One to get the hoard divided how he wanted and again when Hestaby wins the Challenge.