Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: metapsionic on <09-01-11/0740:27>
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Hi everyone,
I'm completely new at SR, we'll be starting a game in the next few weeks. I was wondering what was stopping me from doing the following:
Get a character with 1 or 2 agility. Replace her right arm with a custom arm with body 3, agility 11, strength 3. Just to lay it on thick, add a rating 3 Agility Cyber Enhancement, because apparently I can. Give her a pistol.
Suddenly my klutz of a character is super deadly with her pistol. Is this legal?
Thanks a lot :-)
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Almost legal. You cannot customize an arm higher than your natural attribute maximum - so 6 for a human, or 7 for an elf. You also can't Enhance higher than your augmented maximum. But having a cyberarm customized to 6 agility, then enhanced another 3 to 9 is entirely legit.
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I must have missed that part. My cyber-crazy friend will be sorely disappointed. Mind giving me a page reference on the custom arm limit thing?
And about the enhancement part: the augmented maximum is half of the natural maximum, right? Then why do cyberlimb enhancements go up to 7 high? Is there someone out there with an max natural attribute of 14, allowing for an extra enhancement of 7?
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Side-note: this would also mean that without the Exceptional Quality to boost an attribute to 7, a human with cyber-limbs has no use for a cyber-torso, since his enhancements can't go above 3 either way.
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Why would you boost your own arm? You already own it, no reason to steal it from yourself.
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What?
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CanRay, that pun just earned you negative karma *glares* >:(
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I have not yet begun to pun! (http://youtu.be/n2MEYNXSUy8)
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I must have missed that part. My cyber-crazy friend will be sorely disappointed. Mind giving me a page reference on the custom arm limit thing?
And about the enhancement part: the augmented maximum is half of the natural maximum, right? Then why do cyberlimb enhancements go up to 7 high? Is there someone out there with an max natural attribute of 14, allowing for an extra enhancement of 7?
At least on the core metatypes the highest natural stats are 10 on a troll on strenght and body. I beleive highest natural agillity is 7 on an elf. That is before a number of qualities are added which could give you another point or two. Therre is also genetic optimization. Without digging out some books I don't know how many of these can stack.
Even if everything stacks I don't think there is anyway to get an agility to 14.
Cyberlimb enhancements go up to 7 because they start with a 3 and you can use enhancements instead of customization if you desire, provided you don't exceed your augmented maxium. Customization is expensive and adds to limb availablity. Enhancement is less expensive but takes capacity in the limb, leaving less room for gadgets, armor, etc. In most cases a mix of the two approaches probably works best. In fact, in the original SR4 rulebook there wasn't customization rules, just enhancements, the customization rules came out in the Augmentation book. I would have to look to see if SR4A included the customization rules, or if those are still only in the Augmentation book.
The high agility cyberarm, which I like to called the one armed wonder build, has its uses. Its great for pistol shooters and other one handed weapons. Many of the heavier weapons in the game take two hands, however. I personally would require anthing but pistols, machine pistols, and select melee weapons to be used two handed. Yes you can point and fire a smg with one hand, but its a craptastics shooting stance that way, and I figure the penalties for such bad form roughly equal the dice you loose for averaging the two limbs together. Other GMs may handle things their own way.
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And about the enhancement part: the augmented maximum is half of the natural maximum, right?
The augmented maximum is one and a half the natural maximum.
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So Baron, you're saying I could get a basic 3/3/3 arm, and assuming I don't care about capacity, I could load it with +6 agility enhancement (because my natural metatype maximum is 6 and my augmented natural maximum is is 9)? Such an arm would be incredibly cheaper, at the cost of not having any fancy toys in it. I would have thought the cyber-enhancements would be capped by the attributes of the arm itself, just like someone with 2 STR can't get a muscle replacement rating 3, because his augmented maximum is 1.5 X 2 = 3.
Note: +6 agility enhancement blows the availability cap at chargen, so this is just a hypothetical situation now.
Edit: my bad Critias, that's what I meant
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First off:
Standard limbs: These prosthetics are basic off-the-shelf models. All standard cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes of 3. These values can only be augmented by cyberlimb enhancements. On standard cyberlimbs, a cybertorso is required to have cyberlimb enhancements with a rating higher than 3.
Emphasis mine.
So, with a Standard cyberarm, you can only go up to 6 max unless you get a Cybertorso as well.
However, a Customized cyberarm can start with an Agility of 6, raising the Availability to 7 and the cost to 19,500¥. You can then add the Enchancement on top of that, so a Rating 3 brings you up to Agility 9 for a 9R Availability and an extra cost of 750¥.
Please do note, however that anytime the Enhancement goes above 3, then you're required to get the Cybertorso. It's just that with a customized limb, you're not regulated to start at a base of 3.
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Yeah, it's that whole, "Great, your arm can lift a car, too bad the rest of you isn't built to do the same thing."
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So Baron, you're saying I could get a basic 3/3/3 arm, and assuming I don't care about capacity, I could load it with +6 agility enhancement (because my natural metatype maximum is 6 and my augmented natural maximum is is 9)? Such an arm would be incredibly cheaper, at the cost of not having any fancy toys in it. I would have thought the cyber-enhancements would be capped by the attributes of the arm itself, just like someone with 2 STR can't get a muscle replacement rating 3, because his augmented maximum is 1.5 X 2 = 3.
Note: +6 agility enhancement blows the availability cap at chargen, so this is just a hypothetical situation now.
Edit: my bad Critias, that's what I meant
Grabbed my SR4A to make sure I have the right into. Here is a quote.
Standard limbs: These prosthetics are basic off-the-shelf models.
All standard cyberlimbs come with Body, Strength, and Agility attributes
of 3. These values can only be augmented by cyberlimb enhancements.
On standard cyberlimbs, a cybertorso is required to have
cyberlimb enhancements with a rating higher than 3
So you can use enhancements only, but if you want an enhancement rating higher than 3 you need a cybertorso as well. That means stats of up to 6 using enhancements only without the torso.
If you want higher stats you need to (a) buy a cybertorso as well. This is an option if you are wanting alot of armor, but its starting to turn into an essence sink at this point. or (b) customize the cyberarm first, and then add the enhancements to raise the stat from there. Another quote.
However, each attribute point raised above 3 increases the
limb’s Availability by 1 point and adds 1,500¥ to the cost—though
it does not take up any Capacity. Increases above the natural attribute
maximum and up to the augmented maximum must be handled as cyberlimb
enhancements, with the standard Capacity and nuyen costs
The optimum approach depends on what you want to do. Highly customized cyberllimbs are expensive and can have availablity issues, especially on metatypes with high stat like orks and trolls. But cybertorsos are 1.5 essence and already have a high availability, so they are hard to customize. In general cybertorso really only make sense if you are building someone with multiple limb replacements, or just trying to pack a crapload of armor onto someone. If you are just wanting the arm for a one-armed-wonder, and you aren't trying to get up to troll level strength and body, then a customized limb with some extra enchancements is the way to go.
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Edit: my bad Critias, that's what I meant
NP, just making sure there wasn't some hideous rules misunderstanding (due to one or two missing words) that had you thinking augmentations worked differently than they do, or anything like that. ;)
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First of all, I'd like to thank all you regular posters for helping me getting everything straight. I'm the rules lawyer of the group, and I make it a point of pride to understand how everything work. I could manage with D&D 3.5, but SR is...wow. Lots of stuff.
Second, for those that have the time, I'd like to run through some examples, just to make sure I got everything right. By the way, I'm currently reading the 20th Anniversary SR4 Core book, if that matters.
Meet Joe Average. All attributes are a 2. Joe has the backing of a AAA's CEO, so money and availability are not important.
1) Joe wants to be stronger and more agile. He looks for Muscle Replacement cyberware. Sadly, since his attributes are 2, his enhanced maximum is 3, so he can only equip a rating 1 MR. Not satisfied, he moves on. He starts looking at Cyberlimbs
2) Joe looks at standard cyberlimbs. He could get 2 arms at 3/3/3. He could use the arm's capacity to install enhancements, but because he has no cyber-torso, he can only go up to 6/6/6. He could lift a car in theory, but in practice his mundane torso would never support the output his arms are capable of.
3) Joe could splurge more essence for a cybertorso. With an off-the-shelf torso and arms at 3/3/3, he can go crazy with enhancements. With 15 capacity in each arm, he buys 1 point of body, and 7 points of agility and strength for each arm. Now his arms have 4 body, 10 str and 10 agi. But they're full to capacity, so no fancy gadgets or cyber-guns can fit in there.
4) Rather than go for a cyber-torso, Joe could order custom-made arms. Nuyen is burning a hole through his bank account, after all. He'd love to spend millions on these parts, but sadly, humans have a natural maximum attribute of 6, which is where he'll have to stop. He orders both arms with 6/6/6, but without a cybertorso, he can only enhance them to 9/9/9. Still, not bad!
5) Combining all of the above, Joe could get a torso, 2 arms at 6/6/6, and boost them like in scenario 3. He would now be the proud owner of 2 arms with Body 7, Strength 13 and Agility 13. Now watch me juggle those cars!
Did I do anything wrong in the above scenarios?
Thanks a bunch :-)
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It is your racial natural attribute maximums that affect how high you can augment, not your own actual agility score. So Joe has augmented maximums of 9, and natural of 6. Thus he can customize to a max of 6, and enhance to a max of 9 (a cybertorso would let him have less customization and more enhancement, but would not let him break 9).
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UmaroVI's got the right of it. No matter what, a human can only go up to 9 Augmented (unless you get some improved attribute qualities, genetic optimazations and other goodies going). The reason they go up to Rating 7 is to account for Trolls and other metahumans whose natural attribute maximums are higher.
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So in 3), with a torso, he could have off-the-shelf arms with body 6, strength 9 and agility 9, or any combination he wants, limited by his arm's capacity of 15 and the fact that he can never go higher than 9 no matter what.
If he gets custom parts like in 4), he can get arms custom made with 6/6/6, enhance everything to 9 without a torso (each is a +3), hitting his maximum while having more capacity for guns or commlinks and whatnot.
Since he stands at 9/9/9, nothing, not a spell nor a drug, can make him go past 9, short of the exceptional attribute quality or some other exception from other books.
Did I get it right this time? ~_^
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Right.
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Also, in 1) if you start with a 2 strength, you are free to add more than 1 due to things like muscle replacement. You cant exceed the maximum of 1.5* your metatypes normal max for the stat, not 1.5. times your current stat. If you are playing human all stats have a natural max of 6 and an augmented max of 9. its totally legal to start with a 3 agility and dump 4 levels of muscle toner into it, ending up with a 3(7) stat. (provided you have the cash, the essence to spend, and you have permission from the GM to use gear with that restriction, or a restricted gear quality).
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Thanks Baron, that's what had gotten me so bloody confused. I thought the maximum enhanced value was 1.5 X the CURRENT value, be it natural or cyberlimbs.
Feels so good to have everything straightened out! Thanks a lot everyone :-)
I still have questions about how armor interact with cyberlimbs and whatnot, but I'll keep that for a separate topic. And I *really* need to stop slacking off, so consider this topic closed! :-)
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So you're close. Here's how it goes.
Joe is a human with 2 in all physical attributes. This means his natural maximum is 6 and his augmented maximum is 9 (6*1.5 round down SR4A 68) in all of his physical attributes (Metahuman Attribute Chart SR4A p. 81).
1.) If Joe buys Muscle Replacement 4, his Strength and Agility become 6 (2+4) and he's fine. If he spends 15 karma to buy his strength to 3, the total is now a 7.
2.) If he buys a normal cyberarm, then the arm's attributes are Body 3, Agility 3, Strength 3. He can buy enhancements to increase these values. Each increase uses Rating in capacity. So for example if he got Strength Enhancement 3, his new arm's statistics is Body 3, Agility 3, Strength 6. The enhancement uses up 3 capacity. He can only go up to rating 3 enhancements though since he only has a meat torso.
3.) Joe gets a cybertorso. Now, he gets a normal cyberlimb and gets Body 1, Agility 7, Strength 7 enhancements. You would think this gives him Body 3, Agility 10, Strength 10. However 10 is greater than his augmented maximum of 9 so his arm's Agility and Strength are 9 not 10.
3a.) Our friend Joe decides to get Genetic Optimization (Agility). This increases his natural maximum by 1. His agility's natural maximum is now 7 (6+1). His new augmented maximum is now 10 (7*1.5=10.5 round down). If he has the cyberarm from 3, his agility is now 10 not 9. His strength is still capped at 9 however.
4.) Joe now looks into customized cyberlimbs. He can buy up customization levels. This allows him to buy up the values of his cyberlimb up to his natural maximum i.e. 6. So he gets a Body 6 Agiliy 6 Strength 6 customized cyberarm (that's an extra 13500Y and +9 avail to the cyberarm) but all of this uses up no additional capacity.
4a.) If he got Genetic Optimization (Agility), then he could customize up to Agility 7 (his new agility natural maximum).
5.) With his fancy new Body 6, Agility 6, Strength 6 cyberarm, Joe decides to buy some enhancements. Buying Body, Agility, Strength enhancements 3 uses up 9 slots and gives him Body 9 Agility 9 Strength 9. Even if he gets a cybertorso, he can't go any higher since 9 is his augmented maximum. If he somehow got an agility augmented maximum of 12, then he could get Agility Enhancement 6 and have an agility of 12.
On a related note is cyberlimb averaging. If you're doing a test that only uses a limb (such as grabbing something or attacking with a cyberarm), then you only use that limb's attributes. A partial limb's attributes only are used for this sort of tests, not for any other. If you're doing a test that requires careful coordination of several limbs (such as running down a hallway uses both your legs), then you use the lowest of the attributes of the limbs used.
For everything else (such as resisting damage), you average all limbs together used in the test (round down). Now technically there are 6 limbs for most metahumans (head, torso, left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg), so you add all them up and divide by 6. However very few people follow this including whoever wrote the cyberlimb example on SR4A page 343. There's a couple of different ways you can read this. The way that seems most common (at least I haven't seen much QQ over it) is to have the head count as a partial limb (and thus not averaged) and average the other limbs together (so torso, left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg).
So if our buddy Joe has an body 7, agility 5, strength 9 arm, he rolls different amounts depending on what he's doing. If he's shooting a gun, he uses his arm's agility of 5. If he's doing something that requires careful coordination of the arms, he likely uses the lower of his two arm's strength value or 2. If he's being shot he averages his limbs together (Body 7 arm, body 2 arm, body 2 torso, body 2 leg, body 2 leg) and gets 15/5 or 3 so his effective body is 3. Now when you average or use the limb's value, or the lesser of the values depends on the GM since the guidelines are so vague.
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I think Tsuzua tackled this one pretty well. I was able to read it before I had to scramble to class, but knew I didn't have time to reply, and at a glance he word-for-word said what I was going to. +1 Init Karma.
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For point 5 above, the way to get an agility augmented maximum of 12 is to take an elf (starting maximum of 7) and use one of several options to increase that maximum to 8. Your augmented maximum would then be 8*1.5=12. You could use genetic optimization, as in Tsuzua's example, You could take an elf and give them the Exception Attribute (agility) positive quality, giving them an 8 maximum. There is also a metagenic quality in Runner's companion called Metagenic Improvement that lets you increase both the maxium and minimum starting stats for a charactaer, and is explicitly allowed to combine with Exceptional Attribute and Genetic Optimization. So an elf with all three would have a maximum agility of 10 and an augmented maximum of 15.
That means with 20 build points for Exception Attribute, 10 points for SURGE II to get the Metagenic Improvement, and 5 points for a Restricted gear quality for a REALY customized cyberarm, I think you could get a 15 agility in one arm if you started as an elf and didn't care if you could do anything else. Add pistols 6(automatics +2) and a smartlink and thats 25 dice.
Please note, I am not saying you should do this. I am saying you can do this. Such activity can can provoke angst, cranial decompression, and ape like overhand flailing from your gm, so approach with care. In many campaigns this will get you thrown out a window.
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That was very precise and thorough, thanks Tsuzua :-) Would you also average the armor rating you would get for the armor (1-4) enhancement when you get shot?
Baron, I know all about customizing and min/maxing too far. Our previous D&D campaign had to forcibly end because we were level 13 GODS and the DM was tired of trying to find tiny tiny cracks in our collective armor without one-shot killing someone. While I appreciate your info, I won't make use of it :-P
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I think Tsuzua tackled this one pretty well. I was able to read it before I had to scramble to class, but knew I didn't have time to reply, and at a glance he word-for-word said what I was going to. +1 Init Karma.
Yes, clear, complete, and well worded. +1 and get your resume in for SR5.
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Cyberlimb armor stacks fully with worn armor.
Most GMs will smack you if you put armor on hands and feet. I am of the opinion that armor on lower arms/legs or full limbs is fine. Some people think that any cyberlimb armor at all is cheese. YMMV.
If you're interested in seeing some of the character types you can make by using cyberlimbs, take a look at my sig and look at the Ronin, Negotiator, or Mercenary Rigger for Cyberarm of Awesome users, and the Bad Enough Trog for a robocop-style tin man.
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One of the things that makes cyberzombies so dangerous is that their Attribute maximum is raised by one for each point of negative Essence. So a human cyberzombie with an Essence of -4 would have an Attribute maximum of 10, and an augmented maximum of 15, for his physical Attributes. So he could get 10/10/10 customized cyberarms, then enhance them up to 15 (assuming a cybertorso, which is usually a good assumption for a cyberzombie).
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So as not to confuse the OP, cyberzombies are an option presented in the Augmentation book that is designed primarily for NPCs that lets an individual take their essence negative and survive, It screws them up 7 ways til sunday. Its not a rule that is balanced against other pc options and the drawbacks are massive, so most (sane) GMs don't allow you to play one. It was more intended for building of epic villains, extreme one-on-group combat challenges, that kind of thing.
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That means with 20 build points for Exception Attribute, 10 points for SURGE II to get the Metagenic Improvement, and 5 points for a Restricted gear quality for a REALY customized cyberarm, I think you could get a 15 agility in one arm if you started as an elf and didn't care if you could do anything else. Add pistols 6(automatics +2) and a smartlink and thats 25 dice.
Just to make it clear for me, how do you get to 15 agility in the arm?
I can understand how you can improve it to 10 with customization as that is the elfs natural agility. But to raise it above 10 don't you have to use enchantments, and those are limited to 3 without a cybertorso. So the arms should be caped at 13 in agility.
Or am I missing something??
Oh, and why not go all in and give the dude Aptitude (Pistols) for an extra die ::)
And I think Metagenetic Improvement cost 20 BP but that is a minor detail.
Regards
Rasmus
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Thanks for the praise everyone. :)
You do run into the enhancement cap if you don't have a torso with the 10 agility elf. If you get one though then you can totally have 15 agility. Personally, high agility elves are better off going with Muscle Toner and Superthyroid than cyberarms though.
As for Metagenetic Improvement, it's basically 10 BP. The SURGE quality provides BP cost * 2 in positive qualities. So SURGE II costs 10 BP and gives you 20 BP that can spent on positive qualities off a certain list. So you get SURGE II for 10 BP, spend the 20 BP you then get on Metagentic Improvement. You get +1 to an attribute and raise its natural maximum at the same time.
Now SURGE requires you to take negative qualities equal to the bonus BP, but honesrly that's not really a drawback in SR.
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Thanks you. It fast becomes expensive and hard on essence to get both an arm and a torso. Especially if you also want to have wired reflexes and other combat related cyber and bioware.
Yes a muscle toner and superthyroid would defenitely give a more well rounded character build but not agility 15 though :-)
Rasmus
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(Disregard.)
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That means with 20 build points for Exception Attribute, 10 points for SURGE II to get the Metagenic Improvement, and 5 points for a Restricted gear quality for a REALY customized cyberarm, I think you could get a 15 agility in one arm if you started as an elf and didn't care if you could do anything else. Add pistols 6(automatics +2) and a smartlink and thats 25 dice.
Just to make it clear for me, how do you get to 15 agility in the arm?
I can understand how you can improve it to 10 with customization as that is the elfs natural agility. But to raise it above 10 don't you have to use enchantments, and those are limited to 3 without a cybertorso. So the arms should be caped at 13 in agility.
Or am I missing something??
Oh, and why not go all in and give the dude Aptitude (Pistols) for an extra die ::)
And I think Metagenetic Improvement cost 20 BP but that is a minor detail.
Regards
Rasmus
You are correct, cyber torso is needed, but you can sneak one in without a restricted gear quality.
Surge II costs 10 build points. You pick 20 points in positive metagentic qualities and 10 points in negative metagenic qualities.
Aptitude (pistols) puts you over the max for positive qualities.
Having looked at this you can take a slightly less enhanced cyber arm, skip the restricted gear quality, and get a 5 point martial art that lets you take aim as a free action. You have dice to burn and the damage bonus is nice for called shots.
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Yes a muscle toner and superthyroid would defenitely give a more well rounded character build but not agility 15 though :-)
Yes they would, combined they give +5 to agility so with a natural agility of 10 you end up with augmented agility of 15.
And as that is your actual agility, it's a lot better then just one arm, ofcource that agility 10 is pretty expensive.
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What makes people think that the enhance Attribute upgrades are subject to the attribute caps? It doesn't say that it does in the book, and it's a bit counter-intuitive to say that that arbitrary maximum is the limit that your body can achieve is the same as the limit that the technology ca achieve. I always rule that you can go higher, but doing so strains your body and does damage to the character when the higher rating is used. But meh, that's me filling a gole where the rules don't actually state if the rules elsewhere affect the rule just stated.
Dont'cha hate that?
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What makes people think that the enhance Attribute upgrades are subject to the attribute caps?
What exactly do you think the game has Augmented Attribute maximums for?
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What do you think Redlining does? :P
There are ways to exceed that, and think about it logically. If an arm is built with Strength higher than a human can reach and is attached to a human, is it just gonna pop off or stop their heart? Nope. So I say, SUUUURRE...you can exceed the max...but whenever you do use the redlining rules with slightly lesser damage done ('cuz the arm isn't also exceeding operational parameters like with normal redlining). So far, no one has taken up the ruling ;)
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There are ways to exceed that, and think about it logically. If an arm is built with Strength higher than a human can reach and is attached to a human, is it just gonna pop off or stop their heart? Nope. So I say, SUUUURRE...you can exceed the max...but whenever you do use the redlining rules with slightly lesser damage done ('cuz the arm isn't also exceeding operational parameters like with normal redlining). So far, no one has taken up the ruling ;)
I thought you where questioning how the RAW works, not talking about house rules.
You are ofcource free to house rule this how ever you want to, but the RAW is quite clear about the subject.
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Yes by RAW, the arm does not have attributes higher than max augmented, but it doesn't say the arm itself can't be modded above it. Something to think about for second-hand cyber.
Uhm...occurs to me I may have sounded overly sarcastic. i apologize if I came across as offensive.
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Yes by RAW, the arm does not have attributes higher than max augmented, but it doesn't say the arm itself can't be modded above it.
Actually it does.
A cyber limb can be customized up to natural maxim and then enchanted up to augmented maximum.
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my copy of SR4ALimited says nothing about Enhanced Attribute mods capping at augmented attribute. One must infer it from the fact that almost everything caps at the aumented max. What you are saying is probably RAI, but not RAW.
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SR4A also says nothing about Muscle Toner capping at Augmented Max, you have to infer that from the fact that everything caps at the augmented max.
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Which is why I infer that the maximum bonus you can receive is your augmented max, but the attribute the piece of technology itself is the maximum that ANYONE can achieve. The bonus just doesn't help someone incapable of coaxing that level of ability out of it. Hence, useful to know as character building tools for secondhand cyberlimbs.
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my copy of SR4ALimited says nothing about Enhanced Attribute mods capping at augmented attribute. One must infer it from the fact that almost everything caps at the aumented max. What you are saying is probably RAI, but not RAW.
From page 343(i assume the limited edtion has the same page numbers)
Customized cyberlimbs: These limbs are tailored and customized
to the intended user’s frame and musculature. Such customized
cyberlimbs also come with physical Attributes of 3, but are more versatile
and expensive than standard models. Customized cyberlimbs function
like standard limbs in most regards, but come with Body, Strength,
and Agility attributes that may exceed the standard cyberlimb attribute
rating of 3. They allow the user to raise their starting Body, Strength,
and Agility attributes up to the character’s natural attribute maximum
(p. 68). However, each attribute point raised above 3 increases the
limb’s Availability by 1 point and adds 1,500¥ to the cost—though
it does not take up any Capacity. Increases above the natural attribute
maximum and up to the augmented maximum must be handled as cyberlimb
enhancements, with the standard Capacity and nuyen costs
(Cyberlimb Enhancements, p. 344). In all other stats customized cyberlimbs
are identical to standard cyberlimbs (ie. Capacity limits, etc).
Important line underlined by me
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*sigh*. Yes, the CHARACTER cannot exceed the augmented macimum of his body. A given limb can. Again, useful only for RP purposes. If your street sam teammate dies and you wind up with his arm and install it, the arm still has the stats he gave it.