Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Delahunt on <12-13-12/1526:31>
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My group recently swapped over to Shadowrun, and so I'm learning a lot of the system as we're going along. The game is going well, but as we're coming up on their first interaction with a Johnson I'm left with the following conundrum: how much should the average run pay?
Now, obviously there is room for negotiations. Expecting a group to take on 30+ people will be more expensive than having them pick up Johnson's daughter at day care or something. But what are some good ballpark figures for how much a job should go for? My initial impression is somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple thousand, depending on danger level. But that could be quite a lot, or not much at all, depending on the person involved. Though, I suppose one Run paying for a couple of months living is about fair too...
Any input on this?
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Welcome to one of the most common questions people have.
As a "baseline" I'd start by picking a base daily pay rate per person... I go with 2,000¥... then multiply it by the Professional Level of the expected opposition (times 1/2 for PL 0), and then throw in another multiplier based on how you feel the Johnson would "spin" the mission. From there, just figure out how many days you expect the run to last and add it all up.
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Or just go simple, highest lifestyle cost among the team plus three thousand.
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Welcome to one of the most common questions people have.
As a "baseline" I'd start by picking a base daily pay rate per person... I go with 2,000¥... then multiply it by the Professional Level of the expected opposition (times 1/2 for PL 0), and then throw in another multiplier based on how you feel the Johnson would "spin" the mission. From there, just figure out how many days you expect the run to last and add it all up.
+1 to you sir.
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It depends.
Some games have their runners living in crappy apartments and trying to juggle three bills, cover teh rent, and keep Tony Mamaluke off your back when he rolls in looking for that money you owe him.
Other games have runners that won't roll out of bed for less than ten grand and excpect to be paid like the best in the world ... because they are.
Official guidelines put it at about 5000 per person, enough to cover a month's lifestyle for a successful criminal (Middle lifestyle), plus enough extra to make it worth their while (cover bribes, ammo, etc).
Your mileage, of course, may vary.
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Both of those systems are good. Just think of the reality too. Wetwork pays more due to the inherent risk (like life in prison or strait execution) versus a vandalism job that only gets a slap on the wrist. However, in the SR world the amount of available criminals is high compared to today so prices per job drop. As for a system, just think "if someone asked me to kill someone, would I take only 5,000 nuyen for it?" and balance that with the same thought of "when is the last time I ate food?"
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Don't forget to figure in expenses, ammo, rent, damaged or lost equipment, bribes, one-shot specialty equipment, and money for the shiney thing they want have to come from somewhere. If the characters are operating at a loss something's wrong.
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Ten thousand new yen if yu are not alowed to sell the gear of the people you fight durring the mission, seven thousand if you are.
Granted my team rolls at table rating six (back when there was a table raiting six at least) but there you have it.
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Both of those systems are good. Just think of the reality too. Wetwork pays more due to the inherent risk (like life in prison or strait execution) versus a vandalism job that only gets a slap on the wrist. However, in the SR world the amount of available criminals is high compared to today so prices per job drop. As for a system, just think "if someone asked me to kill someone, would I take only 5,000 nuyen for it?" and balance that with the same thought of "when is the last time I ate food?"
You'd be shocked at how low most hitter prices run. I want to say a thousand's the norm, but most people paid for killing are cops, rather than hitmen. The real pros get paid more, but there's never a shortage of guys that'll gank somebody for a couple hundred bucks.
And here's the "Most drug dealers would be better off getting a job at McDonalds" bit.
Off the top of my head, Pamela Smart bought a pistol for her underaged BF and said "Kill my husband or the nookie stops". I want to say Wanda Holloway offered five hundred bucks, while Charlotte Lindtsrom was waving around a hundred grand in Australian money, which I don't have a conversion for off hand. Needless to say, YMMV.
(And, for the record, I really don't want to go searching for competitive prices for hitmen. There are just some things you *really* don't need in your browser history.)
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That's why I go with base pay and multiply it by the PL and then tweak it by the Johnson:
Let's say a woman wants to get rid of her abusive schmuck of a husband. She knows where he's gonna be and when, which means no leg-work needed, and it's in the Barrens, so finding a way to dispose of the body will be easy. That's definitely a single day's work, tops, since it's basically show up, double-tap, bring the ghouls dinner, done. (2,000¥ * 1 = 2,000¥)
The guy, as mentioned, is a schmuck. He may have a Light Pistol on him, and maybe a couple buddies that are similarly armed, if they even have that much. Definitely PL 0. (2,000¥ * 1/2 = 1,000¥).
The wife is definitely poor, being a Barrens-dweller, and can't afford even 1,000¥. She's desperate, though, so she's been scraping together every penny she can spare to get this done. Probably been saving up for months. It's chump change to a professional Shadowrunner, but she's managed to get together 500¥ and now she's trying to find a Street Samurai willing to work for half the going rate because he wants the good karma.
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Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.
To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).
Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.
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Thank you. Lots to think on with this, but I also have what I want - namely, a place to start. Hopefully the first few runs will be fun.
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Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.
To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).
Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.
We admittedly weren't professionals (it was our first wetwork), and it turned very ugly (but that doesn't matter here because we negotiated pay before, of course), but to kill two witnesses in a murder case, one a nationally known pop-star, IN ADDITION TO recovering some evidence data-files in a bank security box, we got $100,000 to split between 3 of us... it was as high as our Johnson was willing to go (with my 15 Negotiation dice, 6 successes - unknown net). I thought we were getting ripped off, however the initial offer was 40K so...
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Ok I assumed we were talking professionals here. You can get some gang banger to off someone for a $1000 sure. But to claim going rates are that is ridiculous. I have done research (due to criminal justice) and two examples of actual PROFESSIONAL hit men are this: Richard Kuklinski (mafia hit man) made anywhere from $10000 to $200000 per hit. That was in the 1980s. And he didn't even negotiate prices. That's just what Roy DeMeo gave him. (There is actually a movie coming out in May next year about him, The Iceman, go IMDB it) Another example would be Sammy Gravano (also mafia). Sammy made from $20000 to $50000 per hit. Also in the 1980s.
To charge 1000 a hit is idiocy. I can barely buy the gun I HAVE to get rid of for that much. Read Hitman: A Guide to Being an Independent Contractor for how it really works (for the most part).
Now that I have derailed this thread enough: Again, keep in mind the job for what someone is willing to pay. JAD has a great point on the Barrens hit idea. Maybe thats all the woman has. It will be up to the runners to decide if that is worth it.
We admittedly weren't professionals (it was our first wetwork), and it turned very ugly (but that doesn't matter here because we negotiated pay before, of course), but to kill two witnesses in a murder case, one a nationally known pop-star, IN ADDITION TO recovering some evidence data-files in a bank security box, we got $100,000 to split between 3 of us... it was as high as our Johnson was willing to go (with my 15 Negotiation dice, 6 successes - unknown net). I thought we were getting ripped off, however the initial offer was 40K so...
You WERE getting ripped off, that should have been AT LEAST 100000 each.
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So essentially your character committed a crime that FOR SURE has bad implications for your crew (like no doubt Lone Star or whomever will use ridiculous man-hours to catch the "Brittany Spears killer" or whatever) for 33,000 nuyen? Why not boost cars? Could do that for a year and make more money. And, if caught, just go to jail for GTA for maybe 10 years at most. Murder of a national figure brings so much heat that you cant get another job for a year anyways. And, if caught, a for sure conviction (people want to blame someone). Again, as a GM, make sure its worth it for your characters.
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100k for the team is loads. Even with laying low, it's a much better daily rate than carjacking. Plus, y'know, most (meta)humans are far from being perfectly rational economic actors.
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100k for the team is loads. Even with laying low, it's a much better daily rate than carjacking. Plus, y'know, most (meta)humans are far from being perfectly rational economic actors.
Once again, gang members and dope peddlers (Who are the first to get gunned down should a block war break out) pocket about two to three bucks an hour. Versus getting shot, beaten up, or tossed in jail for several years.
For those who haven't seen it:
Ted Talks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGC2nLnaes
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I disagree with the carjacking daily rate. And 33,000 for potentially never working that city again isn't worth it. I agree most metahumans will do stupid things for low pay. What a Johnson pays shadow runners for is DISCRETION and PROFESSIONALISM. Something your typical gang banger doesn't do. I like making my characters professionals and they act as such. I guess it ultimately depends on the campaign. If your characters are gangers, then 33,000 may seem like a lot. But would Johnson hire gangers for a celebrity murder?
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Seems to me that every Mission or story Shadowrun publishes tends to start out something like. "So its been a while since you last worked, tour landlord is harassing you for rend, you're on your last soybeer and peanuts are a fading memory. You're just about to sell your left eyeball....again...when your Fixer calls."
Its not, "So you wake up in a supermodel sandwich, swim your way to the surface of your pool of cash and answer the comlink. Its your fixer again and this time he's offering you a mil to go get a jar of jam from the corner store."
So much like all these debates end up, and there's several across several forums. Proper pay is somewhere between, "Players are looting the boots off corpses and stealing cars," and "They refuse any job that doesn't pay them X".
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Which is why I said to take the highest lifestyle cost among the team and add 3000. If any of them aren't making enough for their lifestyle plus extra to save for 'goodies' then the pay isn't high enough.
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
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Agreed Kat9. Like I said in my first post on this forum, balance "when is the last time I ate food" with "is this worth my life"
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.
Just my opinion. Not looking for yet another "debate". Some people like apples, some like oranges, some are happy with both, and some like none.
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You need to pay the PCs exactly enough to keep them shadowrunning instead of boosting cars, not so much they aren't hungry for the next job, enough to let them buy new goodies, not so much they overdo it with gear, enough to keep the campaign advancing in power level alongside their increasing karma, little enough they aren't always suspected a setup/bluff, enough that it might still sometimes be a setup/bluff, enough for it to fall in-line with the meta-profits a corporation will make after a successful job, little enough the corporations continue to profit by hiring freelancers instead of sending in-house assets for the job, and just enough to make them think every job is worth the risk.
The actual number attached to those requirements is going to vary by GM and players and campaign, though, which is the tricky part.
Whew. There we go, that one's solved. ;) Next!
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Well put Critias
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... 33,000 for potentially never working that city again isn't worth it. I agree most metahumans will do stupid things for low pay. What a Johnson pays shadow runners for is DISCRETION and PROFESSIONALISM. Something your typical gang banger doesn't do. I like making my characters professionals and they act as such. I guess it ultimately depends on the campaign. If your characters are gangers, then 33,000 may seem like a lot. But would Johnson hire gangers for a celebrity murder?
It was kind of a sudden, big step up in the sophistication level of jobs from what we had previously pulled, and more than doubled our previous max pay-day. OOC I was thinking, why is he hiring us for this? Admittedly though, the campaign is very much a re-introduction to SR for everyone in our group (no one but the GM has played since SR2, and 2 of our group had never played before), so it's not extremely hardcore (probably quite lax) as far as clean-up and consequences and what not.
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Fair enough
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.
Hypothetical case: Technomancer lives Luxury lifestyle, Street Sam lives Street lifestyle. Using that math without any weighting, the Street Sam is getting paid WAY more than he should and thus progressing far too quickly, while the Technomancer making this possible doesn't need to make that much money past his Lifestyle in the first place.
Honestly, lifestyle seems like a poor way to do that math, as some characters might pay for 2 or more in order to maintain multiple identities, and as different character types have differing needs for money the system could be gamed pretty easily. In all reality, you have to gauge nuyen rewards against karma rewards - overall, they need to hit a certain ratio for progression to be even.
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.
Hypothetical case: Technomancer lives Luxury lifestyle, Street Sam lives Street lifestyle. Using that math without any weighting, the Street Sam is getting paid WAY more than he should and thus progressing far too quickly, while the Technomancer making this possible doesn't need to make that much money past his Lifestyle in the first place.
Honestly, lifestyle seems like a poor way to do that math, as some characters might pay for 2 or more in order to maintain multiple identities, and as different character types have differing needs for money the system could be gamed pretty easily. In all reality, you have to gauge nuyen rewards against karma rewards - overall, they need to hit a certain ratio for progression to be even.
Extreme outlier of an example. It doesn't happen often enough to even bear serious consideration.
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I think Critias answer is as close to a final answer. Its is so dependent on the players, their characters motivations etc. So a definent answer is not possible (and the debate to determine it thus pointless and likely to end in tears..)
So runners will do jobs for revenge, to earn favours, in trade for info or rare gear... A raw nuyen value per a run doesn't capture all scenarios. Then you have up front partial payment, expemnse accounts, gear supplied, gear or data looted, and more... Whew!
The ten grand amount may be a good starting point, but feel free to find your own path that works for you and the players.
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Really, I don't think there's a such thing as too much unless you're talking millions per character.
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"So you wake up in a supermodel sandwich, swim your way to the surface of your pool of cash and answer the comlink. Its your fixer again and this time he's offering you a mil to go get a jar of jam from the corner store."
To be quite fair, i'd be quite worried if i was offered a million to fetch a jar of jam.....just before i got shot in the back of the head by a sniper.
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Ahhhh... The old 'pretend to hire them to steal a $1 miilion jar of jam' plan.
How many prime runners have fallen for that trick? Too many, too many.
(Lesson here: never make logic your dump stat)
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Were I to go with that option, I would take an average of all the lifestyles involved. That way you don't have someone taking High Lifestyle in chargen doesn't put payouts cockeyed for the rest of the campaign.
High lifestyle wouldn't cause any REAL issue. So long as they're not getting a million or two a month, there should be nothing to worry about. There's already too much "scraping by" for most people in real life. Having to do so in-game isn't fun.
Hypothetical case: Technomancer lives Luxury lifestyle, Street Sam lives Street lifestyle. Using that math without any weighting, the Street Sam is getting paid WAY more than he should and thus progressing far too quickly, while the Technomancer making this possible doesn't need to make that much money past his Lifestyle in the first place.
Honestly, lifestyle seems like a poor way to do that math, as some characters might pay for 2 or more in order to maintain multiple identities, and as different character types have differing needs for money the system could be gamed pretty easily. In all reality, you have to gauge nuyen rewards against karma rewards - overall, they need to hit a certain ratio for progression to be even.
Extreme outlier of an example. It doesn't happen often enough to even bear serious consideration.
It's called hypothetical reasoning. What I'm doing is demonstrating that there's a point where there is an issue. Therefore, the possibility exists (unless you can provide some reason to dismiss it) that the problem exists earlier in the range. What about High and Street Lifestyles? High and Low? And you've completely failed to address the rest of the issues with that system.
Really, I don't think there's a such thing as too much unless you're talking millions per character.
Would you apply the same to Karma?
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Would you apply the same to Karma?
To a lesser extent, but yeah. I don't think it's too much there unless you're talking mid to high teens per session.
Being from a rather...distractable...group, games tend not to last very long, so my views have stemmed from wanting to actually advance in those circumstances...
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I think it depends largely on the GM's plan for his campaign. If the campaign is only 5 sessions long, getting 1000 nuyen and 5 karma per session isn't going to be very much fun. There won't be much of a sense of progression and shopping is a big element of Shadowrun. The longer a campaign goes, the more freedom the GM has regarding payments. If the GM expects the players to purchase a fighter jet at some point, he'll have to give out bigger rewards. If it's mean to be more of a street level campaign, high end gear should be harder to acquire. I like to handle payments a bit differently each campaign to keep things interesting. Not all Shadowrunners are going to get the same opportunities.
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"So you wake up in a supermodel sandwich, swim your way to the surface of your pool of cash and answer the comlink. Its your fixer again and this time he's offering you a mil to go get a jar of jam from the corner store."
To be quite fair, i'd be quite worried if i was offered a million to fetch a jar of jam.....just before i got shot in the back of the head by a sniper.
This ^^^ ;D
On topic though, what works for me is weighing the risks, time taken, skills required etc... and comparing it with street cred. IMO if your character is 5 runs in, and she/he has pulled off the runs cleanly (or with flair) they should be getting payed twice as much as their first run for run of comparable complexity and difficulty, at least.
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Would you apply the same to Karma?
To a lesser extent, but yeah. I don't think it's too much there unless you're talking mid to high teens per session.
Being from a rather...distractable...group, games tend not to last very long, so my views have stemmed from wanting to actually advance in those circumstances...
And this is a perfect example of why every group should approach this topic differently. A long term campaign will work differently from something that is expected to be shorter. Long term = slow growth, balance considerations etc. Short Term = throw caution to the wind, go for gold. Big missions with big rewards. Won't be true everytime, but I think thereis a valid argument for a short term game to have a much faster growth curve, both in nuyen and karma.
So... once again, no right answers here, no one is 'wrong', there is no issues with a method suggested, particular if it works for the player/gm in question.
Just do whats right for your game and go from there.
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Would you apply the same to Karma?
To a lesser extent, but yeah. I don't think it's too much there unless you're talking mid to high teens per session.
Being from a rather...distractable...group, games tend not to last very long, so my views have stemmed from wanting to actually advance in those circumstances...
As long as you're keeping it consistent enough that the 'ware characters aren't advancing faster than the Essence characters, you should be fine from a balance standpoint. The rest is about the feel of it, and that DOES depend on table situation. It is certainly possible to have it be too much, but that point will shift for different groups. Some players, for example, need a little bit more time to get used to what they've gotten before they're comfortable adding more.
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Ware characters advancing faster than essence ones is one thing I will never worry about, but that's just because I know how too work essence characters more than ware characters.
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Ware characters advancing faster than essence ones is one thing I will never worry about, but that's just because I know how too work essence characters more than ware characters.
The 'balance point' seems to be around 2,500¥ per Karma. Keep that ratio, including "windfall" finds, and you shouldn't be in too much trouble.
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Money per job has always been extremely fluid in Shadowrun and up to the GM. Here are a few examples of older printed adventures (keep in mind that ware and the like used to be much more expensive):
Prototype Envy 10k each
Silver Angel 85k (15k bonus) each
Missing Blood 1k each
DNA/DOA 120k team
Mercurial 5k each
Dreamchipper 30k/chip(3) each(up to 4 members)
Bottled Demon 5k each
Harlequin:Physical 10k (2k bonus) each
Harlequin:Hates 20k (20k bonus) team
Harlequin:Past 40k each
Harlequin:Loves 40k each
Harlequin: Counterstroke 5k each
Harlequin:Spiritual 150k each
Harlequin:Future 70k each
Harlequin:Present A sword***
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"Styles of play vary between different Shadowrun groups. Some games are low-income, scrounge-fornuyen
games, while others have a much higher cash flow. The gamemaster should take into account the needs and style of his game before placing a value on the weapon. The base value should, however, be about ¥ 100,000 nuyen."
That's a quote from the old Harlequin module. Obviously pay and play style has been a hot topic for a very very long time in Shadowrun.
It's really the actual job itself, and it's factors, that should matter for payout.
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Might I suggest that you eventually(pub aware and cred ~10) move on to things bigger than nuyen? An extremely powerful weapon focus, awesome 'ware, even some "i scratch your back".
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Might I suggest that you eventually(pub aware and cred ~10) move on to things bigger than nuyen? An extremely powerful weapon focus, awesome 'ware, even some "i scratch your back".
Always fun, certainly.
"You boys manage to snag the prototype, and I'll even get you access to a Firewatch cyber-clinic... at cost, of course... and something from our High Energy Magic department for the Mage."
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Not to mention milspec or better(Yes) armor. And if we're talking Ares you're working for here, some pretty sweet prototype weapons.(Like, for instance, a heavy pistol with all the stopping power of a rifle. Just a example.)
On the other hand, said prototype weapons can be a bit of a pain if they glitch. ("Congratulations. Your plasma pistol just exploded. You are dead. No, I don't care about your soak roll.")
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Not to mention milspec or better(Yes) armor. And if we're talking Ares you're working for here, some pretty sweet prototype weapons.(Like, for instance, a heavy pistol with all the stopping power of a rifle. Just a example.)
Or even if it's not a prototype, but simply not generally produced for sale (such as a pistol chambered for rifle ammunition). Or, for that matter, access to skilled people to create custom gear for you (likely not face to face, but still).
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I guess it's basically, look at the player's finances. If the finances are good and there isn't anything in particular they want, give them gear/ware for the run. On the other hand if it's cash they need, it's cash they get.
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Honestly, prototypes, delta access, and the like rarely make sense for a corp to give as payment. Primarily because of the role that runners play in most circumstances, deniable assets. It's hard to deny that you've had contact with a runner when he's running around with your latest and greatest tech or his ware comes back as being from batch 8 distributed to your delta grade clinic. Some cases are different, but they're usually rare in the shadows.
Ghost Cartels has the players working for a Johnson with access to a Genetics company and no care about how deniable the runners are.
Even if you make the claim that the gear was stolen, that brings in other questions. Either the report was immediate, in which case the runners have Insurance Agents out there that may catch their trail, or the report was filed much later, in which case the insurance company is going to be extremely doubtful at the claim. It took how long to notice your SOTA wazoo was missing?
The real trick is to pay the runners with another corps prototypes, after documenting it of course, and grant access to third party parlors. Get rid of incriminating evidence and pay the boys in one swoop while maintaining deniable asset status.
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It's hard to deny that you've had contact with a runner when he's running around with your latest and greatest tech or his ware comes back as being from batch 8 distributed to your delta grade clinic.
Who are you denying it to? How often is prototype 'ware stolen in your games? I'd consider stolen and blackmarket 'ware a consistent market. Leaving data traceable down to the operating theatre in 'ware marked for deniable ops funding? That sounds like the unintelligent bit.
When you take into account that runners are usually middlemen of unintended transfers, making the assumption that they're keeping (or can provide leads to) any given stolen item after a handoff becomes an uncertain point. Some things have enough value to continue the hunt beyond the immediate chase / escape, but not everything.
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Runners have short lifespans. They tend to croak on the job. So you'd be denying it to the person investigating the circumstances around said runner's death, which would vary depending on where said runner died. May be a Corporate Court investigation crew, could be Interpol, could be Knight Errant/Lone Star. At the end of the day all that matters is that it draws questions back to where the tech originated. 50,000¥ for a CEO's "Night on the Town" is a lot easier to explain than an unmarketed, never reported stolen, SOTA piece of equipment in a runner's hands. As for traceable, things as pricey and rare as Delta are going to be traceable to a good degree. You're talking about needing expensive and rare custom tailored parts integrated perfectly and installed by some of the most skilled surgeons in an area. Likely just looking at the composition of the parts would narrow down the field tremendously without going into other details.
Now, Corps may not report the theft, but that will cause issues with Insurance policies, and always looks shady. Ripe grounds for more digging. Stolen and blackmarket equipment is a big market, which leaves to how it gets into the market place. For SOTA and prototypes, it's either going to be additional tech that was pulled other than the job, or its going to be tech that the Johnson is trying to rid himself of. Tech disappears from Ares, winds up 6 months later on a dead runner. Makes it easy to look like the runner took it rather than S-K having paid to get it and pawned it off on the runner as payment for an unrelated job.
When you get down to it though, if it's important enough to hire a team of runners to snatch and grab a prototype, or worth enough to pay runners with instead of handing out money, it's probably going to be important enough to chase after.
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Ok, instead of "Giving" it to the runners, they "relax" the security and "nix" sending anyone to get the stuff back. ;)
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My group recently swapped over to Shadowrun, and so I'm learning a lot of the system as we're going along. The game is going well, but as we're coming up on their first interaction with a Johnson I'm left with the following conundrum: how much should the average run pay?
Now, obviously there is room for negotiations. Expecting a group to take on 30+ people will be more expensive than having them pick up Johnson's daughter at day care or something. But what are some good ballpark figures for how much a job should go for? My initial impression is somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple thousand, depending on danger level. But that could be quite a lot, or not much at all, depending on the person involved. Though, I suppose one Run paying for a couple of months living is about fair too...
Any input on this?
I have this braindamage in me that says there must be forward progression. I mean, when I play video games I like the character to eventually reflect all the work thats being done. For example, Saints Row you can buy property, upgrade your crib, buy 'better' clothes and more. This helps me mentally by establishing that all my ill-gotten gains are allowing me to elevate myself. But in GTA4 you are always the same illegal russian that everyone talks down to. Shit never changes, regardless of how many people you ice.
I like to apply the same relevance to my games. PC's get paid, but I almost always find a way to help alleviate costs so that they can slowly improve their station in life. Yes, Shadowrun was meant to be a dystopian world, and I'm molesting that facet of the game, I know.
One of the best games I was ever a part of was seeing a runner eventually (20 runs) come into power and wealth then lose it all (courtesy of enemy corps) the try to take his position in life back!
Decide on how 'gritty' you want your game to be. Lower money means the players will struggle more, and will put more value on every red cent. (so to speak)