[Crimsondude]

We can finally have the elven holocaust!

YOu just want to see Critias weep and hear his raspy sobs, don't you?

Or are we talking about a Holocaust caused by Elves?

/whistles innocently

[Mirikon]

That does still leave the Enemy from the Harlequin modules - and they're relevant to a few other events.  Which means that excising them isn't tenable.  However, replacing them would certainly work (and depending on who the properties are defined, might be required).

Or it's just an enemy...of Ol' Painty Face, and he's getting suckers brave shadowrunners to take care of his light work, or at least distract his enemies so he can take them from another angle.  I dunno, it's been a long time since I've taken the Harley adventures off my shelf and read them.

That... really, REALLY cheapens an epic quest through the metaplanes with the fate of the world on the line. That's like turning the Arcology Shutdown into "It was all a dream."

[RHat]

That does still leave the Enemy from the Harlequin modules - and they're relevant to a few other events.  Which means that excising them isn't tenable.  However, replacing them would certainly work (and depending on who the properties are defined, might be required).

Or it's just an enemy...of Ol' Painty Face, and he's getting suckers brave shadowrunners to take care of his light work, or at least distract his enemies so he can take them from another angle.  I dunno, it's been a long time since I've taken the Harley adventures off my shelf and read them.

Which is...  What's the word...  Lame.  There's way better things to do that don't go the Lovecraftian route.  And given that the Enemy is also why the Big D offed himself...

[Somtaaw0]

I never associated the Enemy with the whole Lovecraft angle. Demons and devils have been around way longer than Lovecraft's work.

Given that this is 20th anniversary year for Babylon 5 - Whatever happened to Mr. Darke? Is he still kicking around circa 2074?

[Mirikon]

Indeed. The Horrors weren't Lovecraftian at all. In Lovecraft, the Old Ones don't seem to regard humans any more than, say, we do ants. There is no active malice (unless you go and disturb Cthulu during nap time), but most of the problems arise from the fact that humans can't wrap their heads around beings like the Old Ones, and go crazy at the sight.

The Horrors, on the other hand, are actively malicious, feeding on negative emotions like hatred, fear, and jealousy. They can cause people to go mad, but that's only because when you're tortured long enough, or badly enough, you may start to lose your senses. The Horrors are pure Evil.

[Linkdeath]

Man, I'd love to just write up a fictional explanation of the Horrors. Oh wait! I can, over in the Fiction section! I may start playing with that. 

[Mirikon]

Whatever happened to Mr. Darke? Is he still kicking around circa 2074?

Since Oscuro translates from Spanish to 'Dark', it is pretty obvious that Darke was the former leader of the blood mage faction. And, from all accounts, he made his play, failed, and died.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I would like to see who the Enemy is, now, given that the devs are separating Earthdawn from Shadowrun.

Especially given the information in the Dragonheart Trilogy.  I'm wondering who those guys will be, now?

[Crimsondude]

Sauron.

[Black]

Why Sauron?  Just curious.

[Crimsondude]

I don't know. I've seen maybe half the first movie and read the first third of the Hobbit twenty years ago.


But why not?

[Mirikon]

Heathen.

Actually, since the Enemy was introduced in the fiction and adventures prior to the two lines being split off, they can use Horrors pretty much as is. Of course, they aren't bound by anything that happened in Earthdawn after the split, but theoretically anything prior to could be considered canon. But for purposes of SR, they're best served as a mysterious big bad WAY down the road, unless some idiot does something stupid, which makes Runners have to go into the metaplanes for fun and games in order to stop them.

I mean, the only problems I could see are in the use of certain Named Horrors, but Names can change.

Though I would like to see Names and patterns be a thing again.

[RHat]

Thing is, if they make them something new, they can have them be something that can actually be introduced to the game without massively changing the setting.  They can change the rules about how they cross over to make it more compatible to a slower introduction.  They can insert them anywhere, such as at the head of the Black Lodge (no, not the Penultimate Master, or whatever that title is - the term implies that there could be something above that).  They can have them somehow be connected to both Resonance/Dissonance and Magic.  They can redefine whatever they need to, really, which leaves a lot of options open that weren't before.

[Mirikon]

The whole point of the Harlequin's Back adventure, and really, any time the Enemy is mentioned in the fiction, is that the coming of the Enemy is explicitly a "We're all fragged" kind of thing. That is why Dragons, Immortal Elves, and Invae would likely all team up to keep the Horrors from showing up early. It is the ENTIRE REASON Dunkelzhan blew himself up, to keep them from coming over early. Having them come over at all will be a major change to the setting.

[RHat]

Right, but let's say (perhaps due to Harlequin's recent actions involving magic EXTRAORDINARILY similar to the Great Ghost Dance) a few of them manage to slip through before the bridge gets closed (perhaps due to a combined IE/Dragon effort, as both Ghostwalker and Harley are probably aware of this one).  Further, let's assume for the moment that the Azzies are not their only servants - for example, the Black Lodge could be theirs.  So, they get through, and we've got some sort of secret conflict (the Enemy doesn't want everyone to know about them yet, and if those in the know haven't explained things yet they probably won't until everything truly hits the fan).  One one side, you've got the dragons, the IE's (probably including both Tirs), SK, and NeoNET.  Perhaps the bugs.  On the other, you've got the Azzies, the Black Lodge (who can probably subvert the power of a few nations, at the very least, for their own ends).  If the Invae go to the first side, Ares probably reflexively positions against them without any understanding of events.  Horizon positions against Aztechnology, again without knowing what's going on.  The Japanacorps see odd behaviour out of some of the other megas and move to take advantage.  That leaves Evo and Wuxing as unknowns, but there's probably going to be enough going on with Evo as it is.  It could be a very interesting metaplot direction.

Have the bugs been established in SR material to be against the Enemy?  After all, anything that's established in Earthdawn and not SR could change.