[DigitalZombie]

2 questions really
1) how many sprites can a technomancer have registered at a time?  I presume its charisma according to page 98, but I havent been able to find it elsewhere in the book (are you only limited to charisma number of sprites at character generation,  and during play the sky is the limit?) and can they all be active at the same time?
I guess I will play it as charisma is the limit.

2) I have read in many threads that the diagnostic power potentially can work indefinetly when sustained by a registered sprite,  I find that rather powerful. And does the power stack with itself? say I have a sprite running diagnostics on my smartlinked gun with 3 successes and another sprite doing the same on my smartlinked contact lenses (and a third on my muscle replacement\cyberarm) would that give the person a whooping 9 dice bonus when firing his gun? ... that doesnt seem right does the power count against the +4 augmentation bonus? can I have muscle replacement 3 with a +5 diagnostic bonus?

I guess I will play it as the power does not stack with itself, but Im unsure of how to handle the semi permanent bonus.

thank you for your time

[firebug]

To answer your first question; I don't know if it does say it anywhere (it may need to be errata'd) but the cap is almost certainly supposed to be Charisma at all times, just like magicians and spirits.

To answer the second, it does not stack with itself, strictly speaking.  Or it does, but not in any game-breaking way.  Diagnostics is a Teamwork Test, meaning the possible bonus you can receive from it is capped at whatever skill rating is involved (this also means it may not be applicable to any tests that do not use a skill).  So it's not related in any way to the augmentation cap, and remember, it has to be a wireless device.  Muscle Replacement isn't wireless, so you couldn't use a Machine Sprite on it.  Doing something like putting it in someone's contacts or goggles likely wouldn't help them fire a gun, even if it has Smartlink, as they are not using the contacts themselves to fire, and you can't put it directly into the smartlink because that's just software, not a device.  However, it can go into the smart gun and into someone's cyberarm.  The former definitely gives a bonus to their attack rolls.  The latter could be argued to only apply to things like implanted cyberweapons in said arm or unarmed attacks--  It's a GM ruling on how prevalent they want the Diagnostics bonus to be, since it is vague enough to apply to almost literally everything one way or another if you don't try to restrict it at all.

And just to confirm, it is indeed almost permanent.  The sprite can sustain Diagnostics forever without using more tasks, but this requires the object in question to be wirelessly active the whole time, leaving it vulnerable.  At the same time, the Sprite is also vulnerable, though they can both be running silent.  Should the device be turned off, get bricked, or disabled via Noise (you enter an area with 3 Noise and the wireless on any weapons or basic cyberware ceases to function-- And the Sprite has no way to negate noise, so it can't reach it) then the Sprite can no longer sustain Diagnostics and another task will need to be used to get it to reestablish the power.

[DigitalZombie]

Ok, I guess the first part makes sense with a charisma limit on sprites.

I didnt read the teamwork part very closely, but that naturally puts a limit on the diagnostic bonusses 
Although according to page 451 all cyberware has wireless cabability, its just not all that has a wireless bonus. Which would mean the sprite would potentially have access to all of them, as long as wireless is enabled. But should it then be limited to those warez with a wireless bonus? and giving the sprite the ability to only affect those bonusses then?
Would you then allow a sprite on a smartgun and another on the smartlink to stack (with a limit of the skill rank )?

PS. Ive just been rereading the teamwork test, it seems odd that the onus is limited by the person performing the test itself. Id rather like the idea that a team member can be guided by the team demolition expert, when setting up a bomb. Id have thedemolition expert roll logic+demolition [lowest of mental or social] and give the net hits as bonus dices to the hapless guy fiddling wih the bomb, but I cant as he doesnt have a single rank in demolition 

[Michael Chandra]

Page 98: A player can only have a number of Registered Sprites equal to the character's Charisma. But yes, they should add it to the Registering section as well.

[SoulGambit]

"To start a Teamwork test, your group needs to choose
someone to act as the leader. All of the others serve as
assistants, and they should roll the appropriate skill + attribute.
For each assistant that scores at least one hit, the
relevant limit for the leader’s test increases by one. Additionally,
each hit the assistants make adds one die to
the leader’s dice pool. The most dice that can be added
to the test is equal to the leader’s rating in the applicable
skill, or the highest attribute rating if the test involves
two attributes. The leader then rolls their adjusted dice
pool and tries to beat the threshold for the test." - Page 49

So Machine Sprites can, in fact, add to attribute tests. This means if you nab Reflex Enhancers or dump the Essence on Wired Reflexes, you can Machine Sprite your defense rolls. Also, regarding being connected to the matrix at all times: you can use Trodes / Datajack and DNI into your stuff. I presume anything you can access, it can access. And putting a Machine Sprite in your eyes that have a Smartlink installed should impact your Accuracy bonus. As my general rule of thumb, if an item is supplying a bonus, mitigating a penalty, or allowing something to happen period then the device is being "used."

I know it seems overwhelming, I was rather O_o towards it for a long time. However, a Technomancer doesn't gain access to any other dice modifiers in the meat world and like all spellcasters will be rather Karma-starved. In the end, other Archetypes achieve the same or better dice bonuses, with few exceptions. Then there's the fact that the Leadership Skill can do everything a Machine Sprite can and more.

[Unahim]

No, you can't. Diagnostics helps you use a device for a certain test, meaning it will help you drive a vehicle when used on the vehicle, it will help you shoot a smartgun when it's on the smartgun, and so on.

What it will -not- do is increase the dice pool bonus you get from a device when doing something that does not directly relate to that device. So thinking about the Reflex Recorder, it will not help you there because you're not trying to use the Reflex Recorder to do something, the Reflex Recorder is helping you do something unrelated to itself. It literally says:

if any hits are rolled, the character gets a +1 limit bonus, and each hit adds 1 die to the character’s dice pool to use or repair the item.

Using the Reflex Recorder does not involve a dicepool. You don't say "I use the Recorder!" and then roll to see how successful it is, so it doesn't work. It's a Teamwork test, where the Sprite helps you to use the device, if you're not trying to do an action on a device, then what is it teamworking with? Again, this is in stark contrast to using it on a Deck (where every action you do to Hack is literally using the deck as a 'weapon'), on a vehicle (and vehicle defense is 2 attributes, so that explains that, too) or using it on a gun. All things that are used directly, rather than providing dicepool bonuses.

[SoulGambit]

Reflex Recorder is bioware... Oh whoops, I meant Reaction Enhancers, not Reflex Enhancers. The... issue with your line of thought is that it makes Muscle Augmentations the be all and end all of stuff to put a Machine Sprite in. I mean, you are "using" your muscles for basically everything, after all. All you need is something to cover knowledge skills and something to cover your living persona, and bam! Done.

Oh, made me think of something. You know what's absolutely amazing to put a Machine Sprite in? Skillwires.

[Unahim]

No, you're still not quite getting it :p Your muscles are also helping you accomplish things, they give you a "bonus" to getting things done, but you never go "I roll a dice to see how well I use my muscles.", so the Sprite can't go "Alright, I'll help you use them muscles!" Instead you go "I punch this guy in the face." and your muscles help you do that. Seriously, it helps if you imagine the Sprite being on your computer. Would it help you there? Yes, since every test you make is trying to use your PC, directly. Now move it to your Cerebral Boosters while you're still using the PC. Will it help now? No, because the device you're using is the PC, not your cerebral boosters. They're just there to help.

Or, better yet, think of it like this: The Reaction Enhancers are a person using teamwork. So is the Sprite.

You try to use a gun that the Sprite is on, so the Sprite tries to help you use the gun: Reaction Enhancer and Sprite both roll teamwork to help your shooty action, targeting you as the leader. Alright, cool, that works.

Now put the sprite on the Reaction Enhancer: The sprite is now using teamwork on... the reaction enhancer, not you (since you're not actively using it), while the Reaction Enhancer is still rolling teamwork on you. So the Sprite would aid the Enhancer, which would aid you. The bonus would be smaller, but presumably it'd work... except that in reality, the RE isn't rolling anything, so there's no dicepool the sprite can help with, so its aid never reaches you. (also, I think teamwork on someone, so they can use teamwork on someone else better, is not allowed by RAW)

[SoulGambit]

...I've actually said those exact words, although in a D&D campaign. It was about as hilarious a situation as it sounds. If using those words more gives me a bonus, I'll say them more. Barbarian Technomancer is a go.

More seriously, I find your logic funny and think you're wrong. I'm not really sure how to extrapolate on this because I'm not entirely sure what your logic actually... is. I think you're somehow giving Reaction Enhancers, et cetera a sense of autonomy? Reaction Enhancers don't do jack on their own. Someone needs to move them around and try and do something in order for them to matter at all. I'm not sure how  someone could do that without it also be "using" them.

I'm particularly confused by your punch example. That's like... the most direct application of one's muscles possible. I mean, do I say, "I use my fist, more particularly the muscles in my fist and also my ligaments and my bones help too to punch that guy in the face." ? No. I don't, because that's too verbose. I shorten all of that into, "I punch the guy in the face." I assume my fellow players can surmise that my muscles are contributing to this.

Actually, lets examine this juxtaposed to your gun example. When I fire a gun, I'm saying "I shoot that guy in the face." I assume that the rest of the table can just assume that I'm using my gun to accomplish that goal. By your logic, why would the Machine Sprite apply here? I'm shooting that guy in the face, the Gun is just like a person using teamwork to help me. I mean, the bullet is doing all the work, after all. Shouldn't I have to put the Machine Sprite in the bullet in order to get a benefit out of it?

If I seem harsh, I'm not trying to be. Your logic just... profoundly confuses me so I'm trying to understand what, exactly, you are saying.

[Crunch]

If the use of the device does not require a roll for using the device then a teamwork test is impossible as there's no test. Diagnostics on a gun, medkit or vehicle is fine, but since there's no test to see if your muscles work using them on Muscle Replacement wouldn't help much for anything but repair.

[Unahim]

If the use of the device does not require a roll for using the device then a teamwork test is impossible as there's no test. Diagnostics on a gun, medkit or vehicle is fine, but since there's no test to see if your muscles work using them on Muscle Replacement wouldn't help much for anything but repair.

Yes, this. Like I said, there's no dicepool the sprite can help with. And you might find the logic funny Soul, but that's only because I have to try and figure out a way to explain an intuitive, basic concept here, one you don't expect to ever really have to explain. That's not an insult, we all have different frames of reference, but it's as hard as it sounds. Presenting the reaction enhancer as a person is just an analogy, it prevents having to use the word "use" all the time, since that's the word that is causing your confusion. I'm not sure to be surprised or mildly insulted that you didn't extrapolate that, as it implies holding my mental faculties in very low esteem :p Obviously your muscles aren't sentient.

And no, you wouldn't have to use it on the bullet. You're directly using the gun. The sprite is directly helping you use the gun. The bullet that flies out is just a result of your successful use of the gun, coming only after the roll. A roll that is specifically about using the gun, and helped by many factors (like your body) but isn't -about- those factors.

And as you said "my muscles are contributing to this." That's 1 step muscles -> you. If you put a Sprite on there, the sprite is contributing to the muscles, not to you. So that'd be sprite -> muscles -> you. To make the ANALOGY to teamwork tests, it'd be like helping someone help someone else, which isn't how it works. That's even ignoring what else Crunch (and I) have been saying; there's no dicepool on the muscle enhancement for the sprite to help out with.

[DigitalZombie]

Ack.. there seems to be a fine line here, and Im in the same boat with soulgambit= I cant see that line
Can diagnostics by your account (Unahim and Crunch) not be used on any kind of cyberware then? if it doesnt work on muscle augmentation, would it work on a cyberarm? Are you saying it only works on external equipment then?  (with exceptions like implanted commlinks)
Because if the sprite can optimise my smartlinked cybergun to better hit enemies, then I cant see why it shouldnt be able to optimise the cyberlimb itself to hit that guy.
And if the sprite can optimise the smart gun, wouldnt another sprite be able to optimize the smartlink also (doubling the bonus)?


 

[Crunch]

If there's a test to use the item, as opposed to the item aiding a test, then you get the diagnostics bonus.

[Unahim]

Ack.. there seems to be a fine line here, and Im in the same boat with soulgambit= I cant see that line
Can diagnostics by your account (Unahim and Crunch) not be used on any kind of cyberware then? if it doesnt work on muscle augmentation, would it work on a cyberarm? Are you saying it only works on external equipment then?  (with exceptions like implanted commlinks)
Because if the sprite can optimise my smartlinked cybergun to better hit enemies, then I cant see why it shouldnt be able to optimise the cyberlimb itself to hit that guy.
And if the sprite can optimise the smart gun, wouldnt another sprite be able to optimize the smartlink also (doubling the bonus)?

The gun/smartlink is one system, designed to improve accuracy. You use the device directly, and there's a dicepool in its use (firearm skill). For cyberweapons... it -might- work. Might, because they can be wireless devices, and you're using them to make an attack, sure. I can't speak against the RAW here. As your GM though, I wouldn't allow it, since I don't see how the diagnostics would help out. But that part is house rule, and we're discussing RAW right now, and there I'm not entirely sure it doesn't work.

[SoulGambit]

But there's not a test to use a gun, unless I'm shooting someone.

There is not a test to use my muscles, unless I'm using my muscles to punch someone.