[Rotor]

I've reread the text about maglocks (p363) several times but I'm still not sure about the answer to my question. Can you always bypass a maglock by opening the case and tinkering with the electronics or does it work only for card readers and keypads and not, for example, with a print scanner?  Thanks!
ah, and a subsidiary question, can you hack the fingerprints of a person by reading the SIN in his/her commlink? re-thanks!

[Mantis]

For the first part, yes you can bypass all the lock types by breaking open the case and tinkering. You are basically going past the security verification system and access the door lock directly at that point so it doesn't matter what type of system it is.
For the second part, yes you could get someone's finger prints from the SIN registry but that would be a hell of a hack and I think the assumption is that even though the data is stored on your commlink, it is as well encrypted there as it is in the central registries. So theoretically you can do it but from a practical standpoint, the encryption is supposed to be too hard for mere PCs to deal with.

[Emil_Barr]

The entry doesnt indicate that you need tools to bypass a maglock. Am I to assume you dont need any?

If you do, do you need maglock specific tools? Or as electronic devices woukd that fall under hardware tools?

[martinchaen]

Info on security is well hidden; check out the GM Advice section, page 363.

An electronics kit is only needed to bypass transponder-embedded keys. Maglocks do not seem to require kits of any kind to defeat, but various tools can be used against some of the more advanced ones (sequencers, keycard copiers, retinal duplication, etc etc).

[Xenon]

Thought sequencers, keycard copiers, retinal duplication, etc was used instead of locksmith skill?

[martinchaen]

Xenon Correct, but all of those things are technically optional and "can" be used instead of the skill as per page 363 and 364.
Key locks:
"Defeating a key lock requires a Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Lock Rating, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test. Autopickers (p. 447) add their Rating in dice to this test; their Rating may also be used in place of Locksmith skill."

Transponder-embedded keys:
"In order to pick such a lock by hand, an electronics kit is needed to generate the appropriate electrical characteristics. This requires a successful Hardware + Logic [Mental] (Lock Rating, 1 minute) Extended Test at the same time the lock is picked."
You also get a -2 dice pool modifier if you're the same person cracking it.

Maglocks:
Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test to open the case, or smash it off, same test to reassemble afterwards

Anti-tamper systems:
Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (anti-tamper system rating) Test

Keypads:
Open case as per above, then Locksmith + Agility [Physical] (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) Extended Test.
"A maglock sequencer (see p. 448) may also be used instead; make an Opposed Test between the sequencer and maglock ratings. If the sequencer wins, the maglock opens."
Note that the sequencer "can" be used, but you still have to open the case using locksmith or brute force.

Cardreaders:
Same as keypads, but you can use a maglock passkey to "make an Opposed Test between the passkey/forged keycard rating and the maglock rating. If the passkey/forged keycard wins, the maglock opens."

Print scanners:
While not explicitly stated, presumably can be bypassed in the same way as other maglocks, but other methods exist.
"If a fake print is used, make an Opposed Test between the duplicate and the maglock rating; if the fake wins, the maglock accepts it."

Voice recognition systems:
This is where the meat is, because the text explicitly states that
"Characters can only defeat voice recognition systems by “speaking” with the voice of an approved user—by using a recording, some other simulation, or the real voice."
So this system cannot be defeated using conventional tools.

Breath, cellular, and DNA scanners:
Same as voice recognition; " In order to fool such a system, you need a sample of the correct genetic material, preserved in a specially formulated enzyme bath. The enzyme bath can be synthesized in a chemistry shop with a Chemistry + Logic (5, 1 hour) Extended Test."

Facial Recognition:
"Prosthetic makeup and biosculpting can be used with varying degrees of effectiveness against facial recognition; make an Opposed Test pitting Disguise + Intuition [Mental] against the Device rating. Apply a +2 dice pool modifier to the character if the system is picking the disguised character out of a crowd."
Again, no locksmith test, requiring Disguise skill.

[Kincaid]

Voice recognition systems:
This is where the meat is, because the text explicitly states that
"Characters can only defeat voice recognition systems by “speaking” with the voice of an approved user—by using a recording, some other simulation, or the real voice."
So this system cannot be defeated using conventional tools.

Voice Recognition is is a specialization of Locksmith (p. 145), so you've got to be able to roll the skill.

[martinchaen]

Heh, that's hilarious, Kincaid, because the rules makes no mention of defeating a Voice Recognition system with conventional means.

"An Opposed Test must be made between the voice recognition system and the equipment used to bypass it; whichever generates more hits, wins."

Perhaps the intention is to roll Locksmith as the skill?

[Kincaid]

Heh, that's hilarious, Kincaid, because the rules makes no mention of defeating a Voice Recognition system with conventional means.

"An Opposed Test must be made between the voice recognition system and the equipment used to bypass it; whichever generates more hits, wins."

Perhaps the intention is to roll Locksmith as the skill?

I actually prefer your breakdown of how each type of lock is defeated, but I'm trying to make my SRM character competent at opening any and all locks, so I pointed that out as a possible sticking point.  From a design standpoint, maybe Locksmith is universally useful against all types of locks but for groups without a locksmith, each lock requires a different type of gear to overcome?  Obviously, there may be instances in which popping open the housing isn't an option, so you're going to need a dna sample or whatnot.

[martinchaen]

No, I agree with you, Kincaid. It should be possible to bypass any lock with the Locksmith skill alone, as long as you can get to the guts. I think one of the problems is that the Maglock entry fails to account for the second step, which I believe is part of an errata question somewhere.

"The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts."

And then no second step is listed, unless the following paragraphs is supposed to be the secondary steps.

[Emil_Barr]

No, I agree with you, Kincaid. It should be possible to bypass any lock with the Locksmith skill alone, as long as you can get to the guts. I think one of the problems is that the Maglock entry fails to account for the second step, which I believe is part of an errata question somewhere.

"The first step to bypassing a maglock is to remove the case and access the maglock’s electronic guts."

And then no second step is listed, unless the following paragraphs is supposed to be the secondary steps.

Im pretty sure the paragraph lists two locksmith tests. The first, just to open the case, and the second to frag with the lock.

[martinchaen]

Emil_Barr No, there is no second step. The second test you're thinking of is to disable the anti-tamper mechanism, if present.

[Csjarrat]

Im pretty sure the paragraph lists two locksmith tests. The first, just to open the case, and the second to frag with the lock.

i think that was hardware skill under SR4a. one test to get the case off, one to do the hard work.

either way, i read it that you should be able to defeat the electronics either by hacking the lock, or by using locksmith/hardware/special tools to bypass it

[Kincaid]

Emil_Barr No, there is no second step. The second test you're thinking of is to disable the anti-tamper mechanism, if present.

One of my players pointed out that one possible reading of all this (and it's a bit of a mess) is there's no such thing as a generic maglock, but rather everything is a "keypad maglock," "passkey maglock," and so forth.  This makes sense to the extent that I don't have an answer to question, "What does an authorized user do to open  a generic maglock that isn't specified by one of the subtypes?"  So the first step is cracking open the case and then the second step depends on the type of lock (use a sequencer or roll Locksmith a second time, etc.)

[martinchaen]

Kincaid That would be my interpretation as well under the current rules.

It makes sense that a maglock needs some sort of key or authentication method to work, though it could have been spelled out better in the rules (listing a first step without listing subsequent ones is just rude )