[Grymjack]

ARTWORK! ARTWORK! ARTWORK!  
Detailed artwork really inspires character ideas and gets people really motivated.  Like the cover of Street Magic or the artists who did a lot of the pictures for the archetypes in SR4A....i.e. Bounty Hunter, Combat Mage, Gunslinger Adept, and Weapon's Specialist.  Try to stay away from the more cartoony silly kind of depictions.  For example, I really like the cover of Runners Companion...but the artwork you have for the alternative character concepts like the metavariants is so out of place and basically looks like Matt Groening did them for an episode of the simpsons....it's made me not want to make any characters of that type....and sadly I haven't because those drawings just spoiled it for me.  Or for example the artwork I see in a lot of the "missions" adventures.   But if there was a lot more artwork depicting all these things, then it would be fine if there was some drawings i didn't like, because I would have ones I did like and I would ignore the bad ones....but sadly there is not enough artwork.

I 2nd this.  As an artist, I was visual to make my imagination go wild.
I would love to see a return to the Street Samurai Catalog format:  With a gun per page, and all the cool shadow talk about the guns.

Not to mention we need a serious Drone/Vehicle Catalog because there is a serious lack of good cyberpunk art for these items.  Hell call it the RBB, the Rigger Blue Book.    We dont need more rules for riggers we need wiz gear for riggers with PICS!

Then one more thing.  BRING STEVE PRESCOTT AND JEFF LAUBENSTEIN BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  for me there art made Shadowrun.  Laubenstein was one of the original concept artist of Shadowrun and at Gencon this year I spoke with him at length.  He showed me some of the early concepts the became the original front cover.  And PRESCOTT had the image of cyberpunk down to a tee!  His art is the best black and white art in all the books.

[FastJack]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Yes, I miss the old style, but it was an incredible waste of paper. Looking at just the weapons section of Arsenal, if they had down a single page for just each weapon (not counting the ammuntion entries, or any other chapter but weapons), the book would have to have been 150 pages longer. As a consumer, I'm glad they didn't. The book would have to have been either made into one massive 700+ book, or split into a book for each section. Which means we'd have to spend more money (I would spend it, no doubt, but I'm glad I don't have to).

[Grymjack]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Yes, I miss the old style, but it was an incredible waste of paper. Looking at just the weapons section of Arsenal, if they had down a single page for just each weapon (not counting the ammuntion entries, or any other chapter but weapons), the book would have to have been 150 pages longer. As a consumer, I'm glad they didn't. The book would have to have been either made into one massive 700+ book, or split into a book for each section. Which means we'd have to spend more money (I would spend it, no doubt, but I'm glad I don't have to).

Heck they can put 3 cars / weapons/ cyberware with illustrations per page and I'd still be happy.

[FastJack]

Granted, the illustrations aren't huge, but most of the items in Arsenal did get one in the header of the page. At least they stuffed it full of artwork of the items. The only major thing missing is comments on every weapon from Shadowrunners.

[Doc Chaos]

Yeah, another wish is: please never take away illustriations of the items in the books!

[Prime Mover]

I don't think this can be stressed enough appropriate art and gear pics make HUGE difference.

[Bull]

Don't forget the Mars base... How I'd love to send some runners to Mars and the weird magic they'd encounter...

Mars has no life.  As such, Mars has no Mana.

[FastJack]

Don't forget the Mars base... How I'd love to send some runners to Mars and the weird magic they'd encounter...

Mars has no life.  As such, Mars has no Mana.

Bear with me...

Let's suppose Mars once had life and a mana cycle much like Earth's. But on Mars, the Horrors succeeded...

Now, we come along. We start finding artifacts. More people come, and the Mana rises as a result. The artifacts and other 'things' begin to wake up. But there's one major problem with the Astral plane at Mars: the Horrors had created a permanent bridge so they could come and go as long as there is a minimal amount of mana to attach to...

[Bull]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

And I loath the idea of a space book, outside of something like Target: Wastelands that touches on it a bit for that rare trip to a suborbital.  If I want to play in space, I'll play Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Eclipse Phase, or one of a zillion other RPGs that covers space.

Bull

[FastJack]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

And I loath the idea of a space book, outside of something like Target: Wastelands that touches on it a bit for that rare trip to a suborbital.  If I want to play in space, I'll play Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Eclipse Phase, or one of a zillion other RPGs that covers space.

Bull

Point taken. I just like coming up with weird stuff.

[MJBurrage]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

According to Missions, not only are the pyramids and bones real, but NASA brought back samples of both; and only the flying saucer image was fake.  Did they retcon that later?

[FastJack]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

According to Missions, not only are the pyramids and bones real, but NASA brought back samples of both; and only the flying saucer image was fake.  Did they retcon that later?

Actually, the final part of the Mission: Mars section of Missions reads:

So what's the real story with the pyramids and skeleton on Mars? Are they signs of intelligent life? And what about the Operation Discovery disaster? Is it coincidence that the ship malfunctioned just as the Awakening began on Earth ... or is there more to it? The answers to these questions are the gamemaster's to determine.

The adventure gives characters the evidence of the bones and pyramids, but never confirms whether they are genuine or not. None of the NPCs give anything more detailed than "I heard about ..." in there description of what was brought back, so there's still no confirming that they are the real deal. It doesn't even confirm if the astronaut may be lying about the evidence or not that he brought back. As the book says, it's up to the GM.

[Doc Chaos]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

And I loath the idea of a space book, outside of something like Target: Wastelands that touches on it a bit for that rare trip to a suborbital.  If I want to play in space, I'll play Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Eclipse Phase, or one of a zillion other RPGs that covers space.

Bull

+1

[MJBurrage]

Actually, the final part of the Mission: Mars section of Missions reads:

So what's the real story with the pyramids and skeleton on Mars? Are they signs of intelligent life? And what about the Operation Discovery disaster? Is it coincidence that the ship malfunctioned just as the Awakening began on Earth ... or is there more to it? The answers to these questions are the gamemaster's to determine.

The adventure gives characters the evidence of the bones and pyramids, but never confirms whether they are genuine or not. None of the NPCs give anything more detailed than "I heard about ..." in there description of what was brought back, so there's still no confirming that they are the real deal. It doesn't even confirm if the astronaut may be lying about the evidence or not that he brought back. As the book says, it's up to the GM.

That passage only states that the meaning of pyramids and bones on Mars is up to the GM.  The behind-the-scenes parts of the adventure are very clear that the pyramids and bones are there.  The images are clear enough to show that the pyramids and bones are not just rock formations.

Who built the pyramids, when they were built, and what the large winged skeleton means is what is up to interpretation.

[Sascha Morlok]

Yes, but that's not the case.  There's not really anything on Mars, and the dragon bones from Dunkies Will were proven a hoax.  It's just a barren red rock.

And I loath the idea of a space book, outside of something like Target: Wastelands that touches on it a bit for that rare trip to a suborbital.  If I want to play in space, I'll play Star Wars, or Star Trek, or Eclipse Phase, or one of a zillion other RPGs that covers space.

Bull

Than you have to kill off the Shadowtalker Orbital DK, because he would not make much sense then. There are already to many hooks to space to not include it in a way that it's playable. We don't need a 40+ pages description of the Mars-Base, but there are space stations which are visited frequently which can be interesting. Why people always say that if you what this and that in this setting, go to another setting when SR has already Space. I don't need to play the Star Wars RPG (which at the time has no publisher) when I have a setting which already provides me with several space stations, moon colonies and so on.

When you go for "It can not be what shoud'nt be", why you included the space suits in the Arsenal, why you included the flying space crafts skill anyway? If you don't want it than kick that out of the setting and make a remark into the core rulebook "if you want space go play Star Wars".