[Aranador]

However Aranador I just wanted to say I could have worked with that explanation if it weren't for things like the metalink that have stats lower than the programs would account for.

The metalink is junk.  Are you really surprised that it can barely run its own operating system, let alone any decent programs ?

[Whiskeyjack]

due to having no spare processing power.

Someone already addressed the processing power argument. Seems like you just want to ignore their response rather than responding to it.

Wait I thought we still needed to roll to edit a file even if we had permission to do so?

Here's an important consideration: when you're talking about using actions, you're talking about structured time (typically combat time, or tracking time closely often using initiative). Which makes sense since each Edit Action "is enough to alter one detail of a file—a short paragraph of text, a single detail of an image, or two or three seconds of video or audio." So it's quickly editing in that damning evidence into an online news story while its servers are still protected, or adding a weird image to an instant of camera footage sufficient to get the guard watching the monitors curious enough to investigate. It is not sitting down to write a term paper, or returning to a term paper after you get it red-lined in order to make the suggested changes. The Edit action is about quick, precise, technical editing, not long-term "creative" editing like a digital editor piecing a movie together from takes - that's more likely an extended Artisan test.

Again you can do Edit Actions without using the Edit cyberprogram; all the latter does is raise the Limit. Which, for a good commlink, will already be high (as it's the Device Rating = Data Processing attribute). It's good for a deck devoting its configuration somewhere else and can't afford to switch it around, or already using Data Processing at max but want a higher Limit for whatever reason (i.e. critical ongoing tests to keep editing your team out of the camera feed, which requires one Complex per turn to do).

[martinchaen]

From a game mechanics point of view, not a story point of view, why exactly do you feel that commlinks should be allowed to run cyberprograms?

Since you seemed to miss this part of my entire post, which is why I typed it up in the first place, I'm reiterating because I really want to know.

[Senko]

@Namikaze
Yes which is why I've made several attempts to step out of this topic and let it die, I have Aspergers Syndrome which is part of my problem here I think at least it normally seems to be the cause of when I have trouble with something that is almost instinctive (and sometimes vice-versa).

@Critias
I kind of figured out that was all I was going to get back on page 9 when I said I'd just houserule it and hoped this thread would die.

@Arandor
Honestly? No, the idea the metalink was just junk or the cheap it works . . . most of the time of commlinks. I think I can work with this.

@Whiskeyjack
I may have missed that response but I thought pointing out that regardless of how you measuring processing power the new commllinks had enough spare to run more programs in the cannon history kind of refuted that.

As for long term vs in game again something I hadn't considered hmmmm.

@Martinchaen
Sorry that was my reply I don't have any mechanics reason for wanting them to run programs none at all. However from a non-mechanics one if I can't justify WHY in terms of the world in question to myself beyond a "this is so because we say so even if it makes no sense ruling" it'll drive me up the wall everytime it comes up which for the ubiquitous commlink means always. Every SINGLE time I use one the knowledge that even though it should by everything else in the setting be able to run a scrubber program to reduce the background noise from the adds its can't because "They don't." is going to be gnawing at the back of my mind. Its the same with anything I don't mind a bad film as long as its internally consistent, I hate a film/book/game that has something happen which is not justifiable in terms of its own rules. For example the new final destination films that threw rules defined in the first movies out the window in favour of gory deaths.

[RHat]

If your only objection is an in-setting issue, I'm forced to remind you of the litany of in-game reasons that have been offered.

[ZeConster]

I don't have any mechanics reason for wanting them to run programs none at all.

That's what I thought.

[Senko]

I wasn't hiding it from my first post.

[ZeConster]

Actually, you have been hiding it - you've been going on and on about how cyberprograms would be so useful for commlinks and how there's no "valid" fluff justification for commlinks not being able to run cyberprograms, yet you tried to avoid answering my and martin's question about whether you think commlinks actually need to run cyberprograms, which they don't, because 5k gets you a commlink with a Limit of 6.

[Csjarrat]

guys, ffs. 11 pages over nothing. they can't run cyberprograms. lets just move on and lock this topic.

[incrdbil]

. Its the same with anything I don't mind a bad film as long as its internally consistent, I hate a film/book/game that has something happen which is not justifiable in terms of its own rules.

Ok, so you have no mechanics reason. you have a personal preference--based on your misreading, or ignoring, the countless citations of rules and in-game text providing valid, consistent, in in-universe reason why comlinks can't run cyberdeck programs provided over the entire thread.  They are there, you just won't address them because of your personal preference. Fine. your game. House rule it as you want. But if you want to keep publicly claiming the rules and/or background support your claim, you are going to keep getting slapped down.  11 pages of being told 'No" by every other poster, with absolutely no support is pretty telling.  You say want the thread to die. Funny, for someone who wants it to die, you keep coming back and repeating the same invalid argument over and over.

[martinchaen]

@Martinchaen
Sorry that was my reply I don't have any mechanics reason for wanting them to run programs none at all. However from a non-mechanics one if I can't justify WHY in terms of the world in question to myself beyond a "this is so because we say so even if it makes no sense ruling" it'll drive me up the wall everytime it comes up which for the ubiquitous commlink means always. Every SINGLE time I use one the knowledge that even though it should by everything else in the setting be able to run a scrubber program to reduce the background noise from the adds its can't because "They don't." is going to be gnawing at the back of my mind. Its the same with anything I don't mind a bad film as long as its internally consistent, I hate a film/book/game that has something happen which is not justifiable in terms of its own rules. For example the new final destination films that threw rules defined in the first movies out the window in favour of gory deaths.

Right, thanks for clarifying this.

So, if there's no mechanical reason for wanting links to run cyberprograms, why not just say that in your game links CAN run most cyberprograms, but thy the programs listed in the rules are strictly for RCCs and decks because they ALL require specialized hardware not present on a commlink?

You mentioned Signal Scrubber specifically, so why is it so hard for you to accept that a commlink can't run this program for whatever reason? If it requires a hardware module that commlinks just don't have, isn't that good enough? The link can still run every other piece of software under the Sun (heh), but the cyberprograms listed in the book requires something "more".

If you still insist that links should be able to run cyberprograma, why stop at common? That's what I don't get... Honestly, you can do whatever you like, but like others have said, I dint think you have the right to claim that your view is justified. I think the vehement opposition by several posters here should be a strong indication to you.

With that said, I'm out. Enjoy!

[KarmaInferno]

I think my meat elbow should be able to run cyberprograms.

I have no mechanics reason why. I just think it should.




-k

[Sendaz]

I think my meat elbow should be able to run cyberprograms.

I have no mechanics reason why. I just think it should.

-k

Don't see why not, some Street Sammies seem to run many of them already:

Browse: Tend to see them doing this in the Men's Magazine section down at the shop.
Edit:  White Out
Encryption:  Igpay Atinlay
Signal Scrub:  That would explain why he was scouring the radio with that steel wool last week
Toolbox: Kept in the trunk
Virtual Machine:  Air-guitar

[SlowDeck]

You forgot one!

Configurator: Street doc contact.

[Namikaze]

@Namikaze
Yes which is why I've made several attempts to step out of this topic and let it die, I have Aspergers Syndrome which is part of my problem here I think at least it normally seems to be the cause of when I have trouble with something that is almost instinctive (and sometimes vice-versa).

I think you should just ignore this topic then, Senko.  Unfortunately, nothing is going to satisfy that little itch.  I know what you mean about not being able to let something go, and I know from personal experience that it can be extremely difficult with Asperger's to stop trying to find that little thing to make it all perfect.  One of the best artists I ever knew had Asperger's, and even though he couldn't create something from nothing, he could model a real-world location or person with insane precision.  Part of the reason was that he kept tweaking things just a tiny bit here and there.  Eventually, in order to release our products on time, we had to get him used to the idea of letting it go.  He never did take it well, but eventually he would relinquish the product (so long as he could keep a copy to keep tweaking it on his own time).