[Solarious]

Hello,

I'm going to be running my very first game in about a month or so and wanted to jump on here and see if anybody could throw me some advice.
Thank you in advance

I wanted to do something a little different then the "standard history" games we have been playing.
My idea was to do something along the lines of X-Men and center the story around the world's mutant/changeling population and the troubles they go through being different.

The reason I put magic free world in the title is because I want to heighten the alienation of having "powers".
I always kind of wondered why changelings were thought to be so weird when you have orcs, dragons, and wizards running around.

The story in my head so far centers around a ghetto populated by changelings.
Due to their abilities/powers, changelings are actually very well suited to Shadowrun work.
This will be the main drive of the story but I also want to work in an eventual storyline where Ares is found to be kidnapping changelings and hauling them up to a space station to be augmented into super soldiers.

Anyway, here are a few questions/comments I have for the moment.
I'm sure there will be more to follow if anyone is actually interested in this idea

1) How do I handle character creation?
I'm really only terribly familiar with 5th but I do have the 4th Ed players guide with the changelings detailed.
I'm going to require all characters to take a free SURGE quality but how do I handle that?
I was thinking to just use the point values strait out of that book. It doesn't seem like many of the powers even require much conversion.
But do I let people take troll, or elf, or even ghoul as a mutation?
I don't see why not but I don't know how I could convert that on a point system.

2) Are there any major meta plot changes?
Of course there are but honestly I'm not familiar enough with any of it to say for certain yet how I'll go with it.
Without magic the world will look very much different.

3) how to handle setting?
I wanted to use Chicago as the setting with very little difference in what happened there.
I figure the best way to do this is to say the insect infestation was due to the particular powers of an especially powerful changeling "super queen".

4) Powers- would it be advisable to allow perhaps a single magic spell or even a set of adept powers to be taken as mutation powers? This isn't at all out of the question given the source material I'm using. In fact there is even at least two X-Men whose power is litterally "magic"

5) Just for fun- anyone have any ideas for an augmented mutant supersoldier?
I (and obviously Ares) like the idea that the talents and powers of changelings arnt at all effected by essence loss


Thanks again
I'll be back with more
It's kinda late

[Namikaze]

Honestly, my thought is that this is ambitious for your first game.  I wouldn't recommend it.  Additionally, this isn't so much a variant on the rules and story as it is a complete re-writing of them.  Also I wouldn't recommend it.

However - I don't want to discourage creativity and enjoyment, so by all means go forward with your plan.  I just wouldn't recommend it for introducing players to Shadowrun, or consider even using the Shadowrun name.  It's just completely different in all ways.

[SirValeq]

From what I've read about the world so far, if you want your players to be alienated/feared/hated/hunted just have them play technomancers.

[Solarious]

This won't be the 1st game for any of us by far-  just my 1st as GM

I really don't see how dropping magic would make the game overwelmingly more complicated.
In fact, I would think dropping something like 1/3 of the rules would make things easier

As for it not being Shadowrun at all I have to disagree again.
All the same themes and settings are still there. The players will still be shadowrunners. They'll still be doing these runs against giant mega corps, and they'll still have all the same weapons, cyberarms, drones, ect

I actually did think about making the characters TMs
However since there is going to be 4 players on this one, I didn't want them all to end up with basically the same characters with essentially the same powers. How boring!

[ZeConster]

I really don't see how dropping magic would make the game overwelmingly more complicated.
In fact, I would think dropping something like 1/3 of the rules would make things easier

Probably the part where you also drop 1/3 of the setting, and have to rewrite it.

[Mirikon]

Honestly? I would NOT do this as your first time at the DM's chair. Even when you're going from a system you know well, using stock modules, there's so many things that can go wrong, even for seasoned GMs. You're taking all of that, and making it even more complicated.

If you want to do a supers game, where the players are some of the first or few supers in the world, I'd suggest ditching the SR setting and rules entirely, and pick up something else. If you want a more comic book feel, then Mutants and Masterminds is a system tailor made for supers, and it is based on the d20 system, so your players likely know 90% of the 'in play' mechanics already. If you're looking for something more grim and gritty or tactical, you should try Hero System. Chargen is a nightmare without having something to do the math for you, but in play it is a very enjoyable system to work with, and provides a more tactical, rough and tumble style of combat, not unlike the feel of Shadowrun. And then there is always GURPS.

[Solarious]

I'm sorry, I probably didn't make this clear enough but I don't actually want superheroes.
When I say "powers" I more mean color changing lizard skin or maybe gills- not characters that fly around and hit each other over the heads with skyscrapers.

I really only mentioned the X-Men because of the similar mood and tone of their stories but honestly, changelings get a short enough end of the stick as it is to make be forced to completly change the setting.

I understand everyone's apprehension about changing the setting to be sure
I ran into the same problem when I ran a Metal Gear inspired game using the World of Darkness rules about 10 years ago. People actually got mad I wasn't using self loathing pussy vampires in their beloved system
Ha!

I could still use some advice on converting changelings to 5th if anyone wants to help
Maybe I'll just jump over to the Character Creation page

[emsquared]

It seems to me like you could do this campaign theme/arc, without making such a drastic change to the metaplot or setting (no magic), just make the world low-magic (Awakened are just more rare, more feared/misunderstood, magic gear/services more expensive, you could even require any caster to be Aspected w/ no karma boon?) and lump Awakened in with the Changelings as subject to "racism" and segregation. Maybe make-up some manatech that allows mundanes to detect Awakened (like an Awakened bacteria that bio-illuminates within Magic x 10 meters of Awakened and can be infused into clothing or something) that's commonly possessed by law-enforcement and even private citizens?

Seems like porting SURGE qualities over to 5th would be the most problematic aspect of your plan to me (I don't think it would work to just port the costs directly), due the changes in the economy of Qualities of 5E. Also, many SURGE Qualities are powerful, I wouldn't recommend letting it be free. Maybe give them a choice in what level of SURGE they are, 1, 2 or 3 - subtracting 5/10/15 karma from their allotment for "normal" qualities - and just do as 4E where they have to take an equivalent number of SURGE NegQs (plus mandatory Distinctive Style) and 2x SURGE level in karma for SURGE PQs.

[Dangersaurus]

It sounds like you've put quite a bit of thought into how to make this fun. Just make sure your players are on board and it should be golden. And call it Shadowrun all you like. It is just a game after all.

Rather than try to price and balance SURGE, throw the SURGE qualities on top. Each player gets X number of 4th edition BP to spend on metagenetic qualities. That should keep things fair from player to player without having to rewrite the character generation.

The conversion trouble spots are with qualities that give armor (take the highest armor value, add half the other armor value, adjust to fit), or damage codes (replace STR/2 with flat STR for all damage codes).

[Solarious]

I think it could work just to have them pick a level of SURGE. The level of positive qualities should be balanced by the number of negatives right?

Just having it as free and separate from the 5th Ed character generation should keep it pretty simple I hope.

Thank you for the quality conversions by the way
I'm not at all familiar with 4th. I don't even know what a BP is (Build Point I would imagine?)


Also, I like the low magic idea.
Is it a dick move to limit magic to priority C or lower at Character Generation?

[ZeConster]

Also, I like the low magic idea.
Is it a dick move to limit magic to priority C or lower at Character Generation?

You'll want to pair that with a cap of 4-ish on the Magic attribute during chargen: otherwise, players can use Special Attribute Points to still start with 6 Magic.

[emsquared]

Also, I like the low magic idea.
Is it a dick move to limit magic to priority C or lower at Character Generation?

You'll want to pair that with a cap of 4-ish on the Magic attribute during chargen: otherwise, players can use Special Attribute Points to still start with 6 Magic.

I don't think you need that "artificial" cap on Magic, sure you can use your Metatype priority to help it out, but your skills are still going to be limited, and you are then requiring a sacrifice (in Edge and from other skill point allocation) to get where a "normal" campaign Awakened could get, with ease. Seems like the C priority limit would be enough to me. You don't want to completely nerf a player who wants to play an Awakened, just make them "work harder" to do it.

I think it could work just to have them pick a level of SURGE. The level of positive qualities should be balanced by the number of negatives right?

Just having it as free and separate from the 5th Ed character generation should keep it pretty simple I hope.

The Changeling Qualitys aren't particularly balanced though within themselves without their own cost. If you take the 5 BP version (SURGE 1), you get 10 BP to spend on PQs, and 5 BP you must take in NQs, plus what is essentially a 5 BP NQ (Distinctive Style) - so, SURGE 1 is balanced within itself. If you take 10 BP SURGE 2, you get 20 BP to spend on PQs, but are only required to take 10 BP in NQs plus the same 5BP Distinctive Style - so you're "netting" 5 BP worth of qualities for "free". SURGE 3, you're netting 10 BP in free qualities. The problem then being that 1 BP is equivalent to 2 karma (and 4E qualities were much more poorly balanced then 5Es in the first place), so you're potentially giving players as much as 20 free karma in poorly balanced (in favor of the players) capability. Maybe that doesn't bother you much though.

[edit]Maybe allow them to take SURGE 1 for free (since it's balanced within itself), but if they want SURGE 2 or 3, require 10 or 15 karma from their normal chargen resources, and if it's SURGE 3 require at least 1 of the NQs to be physically noticeable?

[ZeConster]

Also, I like the low magic idea.
Is it a dick move to limit magic to priority C or lower at Character Generation?

You'll want to pair that with a cap of 4-ish on the Magic attribute during chargen: otherwise, players can use Special Attribute Points to still start with 6 Magic.

I don't think you need that "artificial" cap on Magic, sure you can use your Metatype priority to help it out, but your skills are still going to be limited, and you are then requiring a sacrifice (in Edge and from other skill point allocation) to get where a "normal" campaign Awakened could get, with ease. Seems like the C priority limit would be enough to me. You don't want to completely nerf a player who wants to play an Awakened, just make them "work harder" to do it.

I have an Adept build for a regular campaign that has Magic D and uses special attribute points to raise Magic to 6. Plus for Magicians, you can always go DACBE or DBCAE: Human, 24 or 20 attribute points, 36/5 or 46/10 skills, Edge 2, Magic 6, 5 free spells. Plenty of skill points: put some in summoning and spellcasting, and your "low-magic campaign" character can still summon Force 6 spirits with ease and hurl F12 spells if necessary. The cap is necessary.

[emsquared]

Admittedly I don't know the ins and outs of 5E chargen that well, but how's that Adepts EDG? And what are the 2ndry or tertiay skill sets of such a Magician gonna be like (like a shaman face)? I have to assume they're worse than a "normal" magician's could be, either less well-rounded than they could be or less Lucky than they could be -, and fact is the point of a low-magic setting is not to completely nerf your Awakened PCs, because that sucks for the player (unless I guess that PC nerfing is part of the GM/OPs vision here).

[Solarious]

(unless I guess that PC nerfing is part of the GM/OPs vision here).

It's not
As always the point is to have fun and tell a good story

We are doing a rotating GM thing and have 2 on going games already set in the standard timeline

I just wanted something a little different to set my story apart
I was going to do a story about corporate anti-shadowrunners or one where they litterally were a tiny Corp themselves but after some thought decided this may be more interesting
(I was actually just getting on to make a thread about the former so if that sounds more interesting to you jump over there)

Honestly still undecided though
I still have a good amount of time to decide