[Namikaze]

After the Missions FAQ and the Errata, we're still talking about the power point costs for mystic adepts?  Look, a mystic adept in 5th edition at least has the option of starting with 6 magic and 6 power points.  In other editions, that wasn't even possible.  Can we not just drop this issue after all this time?

[Michael Chandra]

If it was too easy to get full PP, why would anyone want to be an adept.

1.  Lower Magic Priority Table so better rating in some other priority.
2.  No need to take Negative Qualities. 
3.  Free PP for every Magic Point.   Not only is that 30 Free Karma, but its 30 Karma at Char-Gen that is instead being used for Positives or improving Attributes.

The question isn't why anyone would want to be an adept, but why anyone would want to be a Mage.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Astral Projection without a Free Spirit. 

[Shrazkil]

If it was too easy to get full PP, why would anyone want to be an adept.

1.  Lower Magic Priority Table so better rating in some other priority.
2.  No need to take Negative Qualities. 
3.  Free PP for every Magic Point.   Not only is that 30 Free Karma, but its 30 Karma at Char-Gen that is instead being used for Positives or improving Attributes.

The question isn't why anyone would want to be an adept, but why anyone would want to be a Mage.

That is the better question, not a lot going for them as is . I know when I'm making munchkin builds , the thought of a pure Mage rarely enters my mind. Honestly from a power standpoint , I am surprised mysadepts do not get a -2 starting spell penalty.

[Imveros]

Astral Projection without a Free Spirit. 

what he said! Astral Projection is amazing if you're creative and are equipped to handle astral threats. Not to mention all those karma going towards power points could be spend on foci or could be used on skill points so you can get away with lower skill priorities.

[Michael Chandra]

At 2 karma per PP, Astral Projection isn't worth it to most. You can still deal with Astral Threats through Astral Perception after all.

Not to mention all those karma going towards power points could be spend on foci or could be used on skill points so you can get away with lower skill priorities.

Which is why when we debated this, over a year ago, I did the math Focus-wise, calculating for everything what the relative karma cost is. And regarding spells + sustaining / quickening, the Mystic Adept won out big time. Right now Mystic Adepts make very nice combat mages, and are a heavy consideration. At 2 karma per PP, they WERE the Combat Mages and you'd be a sucker otherwise.

Also, yes right now it'd matter for skills. But not under the 2 karma per PP version. At best we're talking about a single 3 there, or a bunch of 1s, that's not worth using skill points for.

[Tarislar]

Astral Projection without a Free Spirit. 

what he said! Astral Projection is amazing if you're creative

Agreed.

Its not about astral threats, IMHO, its Astral Recon/Searching that I think is VERY useful but seems to get ignored by some.

[Imveros]

At 2 karma per PP, Astral Projection isn't worth it to most. You can still deal with Astral Threats through Astral Perception after all.

that's why i am all for the errata's 5 point cost. 30 points makes you stop and think. I also i was more going towards being the astral threat and not countering them. Astral recon is worth its weight in Orichalum as long as your gm isn't a jerk and gives every stuffer shack force 12 wards

[All4BigGuns]

The 5 point cost is still overkill. Whether 2 per point was too low or not is beside the point. The fact remains that 3 or 4 per point would be more appropriate since it removes the requirement that no other character type is held to. That being that the Mystic is required to take Negatives or lose out on one or more Power Points permanently. Three points per is the best, since it still leaves a good amount remaining for the 'tweaking' that the generation Karma was ostensibly put there.

[ZeConster]

Mystic Adepts work just fine at 5 points, and a cost of less than 4 is unacceptable.

[MijRai]

4, or scaling cost are the best options.  That, or allowing mystic adepts to buy power points as an attribute after CC, while keeping it at 5 points in CC. 

[Whiskeyjack]

Astral Projection without a Free Spirit. 

what he said! Astral Projection is amazing if you're creative

Agreed.

Its not about astral threats, IMHO, its Astral Recon/Searching that I think is VERY useful but seems to get ignored by some.

The usefulness of being able to Astrally Project is heavily dependent on your group's playstyle and how much your GM reads the setting books and determines how frequently corps implement security measure that amount to total astral blockage (from a reading of the fluff, it'd be very easy to justify a lot of it on virtually any run against a corp). By contrast, it's a very niche kind of group where some kind of always-on Initiative enhancement (say, from having PP and Improved Reflexes) isn't useful regularly, if not every session.

I do think projection is neat but can be worked around easily with Astral Perception, watchers, summoned spirits, etc.

[Tarislar]

The usefulness of being able to Astrally Project is heavily dependent on your group's playstyle and how much your GM reads the setting books and determines how frequently corps implement security measure that amount to total astral blockage (from a reading of the fluff, it'd be very easy to justify a lot of it on virtually any run against a corp). By contrast, it's a very niche kind of group where some kind of always-on Initiative enhancement (say, from having PP and Improved Reflexes) isn't useful regularly, if not every session.

I do think projection is neat but can be worked around easily with Astral Perception, watchers, summoned spirits, etc.

I would turn that around & point out that the usefulness of Summoned Spirits doing it for you is very dependent on your GM.
The way my GM plays them is they are very literal in how they interpret commands & exactly what they report so you better be VERY thorough in what you ask them to do.  Its annoying enough IMHO that being able to do it yourself & come up with your own picture of what you find is a lot better.
Not much different IMHO than the difference between always on PP Reflexes & Foci Sustained Reflexes.

The 5 point cost is still overkill.

I don't think so, I think 5 is fine, if anything its CHEAP given what you get.
They would probably be better priced at 7-8.  BUT, that IMHO would be only if they could purchase them post CharGen as well.
Think about the cost of Initiation to get that same PP & then think about what you can buy that is similar to various Positive Qualities or to Specializations.

and a cost of less than 4 is unacceptable.

Agreed

4, or scaling cost are the best options.  That, or allowing mystic adepts to buy power points as an attribute after CC, while keeping it at 5 points in CC. 

I'm not a fan of scaling myself.  But post CG purchasing would be nice.

[Michael Chandra]

The usefulness of being able to Astrally Project is heavily dependent on your group's playstyle and how much your GM reads the setting books and determines how frequently corps implement security measure that amount to total astral blockage (from a reading of the fluff, it'd be very easy to justify a lot of it on virtually any run against a corp). By contrast, it's a very niche kind of group where some kind of always-on Initiative enhancement (say, from having PP and Improved Reflexes) isn't useful regularly, if not every session.

I do think projection is neat but can be worked around easily with Astral Perception, watchers, summoned spirits, etc.

I would turn that around & point out that the usefulness of Summoned Spirits doing it for you is very dependent on your GM.
The way my GM plays them is they are very literal in how they interpret commands & exactly what they report so you better be VERY thorough in what you ask them to do.  Its annoying enough IMHO that being able to do it yourself & come up with your own picture of what you find is a lot better.

That sounds rather silly to me. Spirits are highly intelligent, so unless you did something to really piss them off, I don't see why they'd act like rulelawyery douchebags.

As for the PP after chargen: One of my houserule concepts for it is treating them akin to Qualities: 10 karma after chargen, and if you raise your Magic you can also get extra that way. Has a risk of making them too powerful in the end.

[Imveros]

they have high mental stats yes, but they know nothing of our world. They are totally alien in their though processes. What they think is important and what they think is important are totally different things. It only makes sence for them to take your orders literally to make up for this gap in perception.

Though thought process of spirit folk is far from the stated topic. I say we just trust they know what they are doing with 5 points a pop. Save any other discussion for house-rules threads.