[Darzil]

3. The rules state that you add to the overwatch score every 15 minutes.

Is it intentionally supposed to be exactly 15 minutes, or is that just a guideline? For example, if a player starts a stopwatch before they begin their first illegal action and expect to finish their work before 15 minutes are up, can they rely on that? I was wondering whether a house rule of 5 + 3d6 (that will average 15.5 minutes) makes sense or whether the game designers intentionally wanted it to be exactly 15 minutes.

It starts when they begin their first illegal action, then adds 2d6 every 15 minutes thereafter. I usually find my first one is when I jump off the public grid onto a better grid.

4. Should it generally be assumed that most people's weapons are matrix-enabled? Or running "loud"?

I think that's probably a GM call. In our game it tends to be that most are wireless enabled but running silent.

[Kincaid]

I play it as every 15 minutes once you do something illegal.  Given that most things in Shadowrun take place in 3-second increments, it only really comes into play when the decker states that he's going to sit on the grid for hours on end getting marks on every conceivable device out there.  It's a device for the GM to prod things along more than anything in my experience.

All non-throwback guns are devices and in most jurisdictions, you have can't legally run them silently (Shadowrunners scoff at your laws!).  Some icons (including guns) display separately from their owner's persona, even if those icons are part of a PAN.

[Adder]

It starts when they begin their first illegal action, then adds 2d6 every 15 minutes thereafter. I usually find my first one is when I jump off the public grid onto a better grid.

Is that actually correct? The descriptions for Brute Force and Hack on the Fly explicitly say that they do not alert GOD like they normally would.

That also implies that you can attempt to gridhop infinite numbers of times without triggering attention...

[8-bit]

It starts when they begin their first illegal action, then adds 2d6 every 15 minutes thereafter. I usually find my first one is when I jump off the public grid onto a better grid.

Is that actually correct? The descriptions for Brute Force and Hack on the Fly explicitly say that they do not alert GOD like they normally would.

That also implies that you can attempt to gridhop infinite numbers of times without triggering attention...

It is correct. Once you start an illegal action, you start leaving traces and digital footprints in the Matrix. That's what GOD and demiGODs are looking for.

The greatest ninjas in the world can’t walk through the desert without moving some sand, and the best hackers in the world can’t hack the Matrix without leaving tiny clues to their passing. GOD and the demiGODs are on the lookout for these kinds of clues, but luckily the Matrix is a really big place, with plenty of places to hide. They’re good, though, and they’ll get you eventually. The more hacking you do, the easier you are to find.

So, even though it doesn't alert them, they are still sweeping for traces of hackers/illegal actions. That's why the timer starts.

[Darzil]

Actually it states that grid hop sleaze failures and brute force successful attacks don't alert the grid owner or it's demiGOD as they normally would (when attacking other icons). It says nothing about not starting overwatch.score.

Edit - The metagame way to look at it is this: If neither GOD nor anyone else were notified by success or failure, and if overwatch did not start, what would be the point of requiring rolls or making better grid access a perk of medium+ lifestyle (or lower with grid subscription in run faster). It doesn't cause much issue, just a slightly larger overwatch score and you can't have only public grid access, hack onto a better grid and then do a matrix search for hidden data without the -2 from public grid.

[Zweiblumen]

My reasoning is thus: there must be hundreds of thousands of hosts in the world, if not millions (or even billions!).

If you're trying to find the host for the political organization "Elect Bob Shmoe!" in a tiny village in Tanzania, which is one insignificant host in an ocean of hosts, you can instantly find that? That just seems odds to me. Maybe it's because I'm digging too deep about this but I can't even imagine how that would work in practice.

How long does it take to get the results of a google search for "Elect Bob Schmoe" in a tiny village in Tanzania today?  Then take everything we know about the internet and networking and computers and bin it.  This is 60 years in the future in an alternate universe where there is magic.  To say that you can find a piece of information that is actively advertising it's existance instantly doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

[Adder]

Okay, so to confirm- attempting a grid hop (without permission) starts the timer, but does not increment your score. Yes?

edit: as a corollary, you could still attempt the grid hop many times with minimal. Since it doesn't add score you could easily do like 20 attempts in like a minute. Obviously that cuts down on your remaining time to do other things, but compared to the normal consequences of illegal Matrix actions grid hopping is far less dangerous.

2nd edit: Since you can reboot whenever unless you're link-locked, if your first illegal action was to grid hop, you could phrase your instructions to the GM as such:
"I attempt to grid-hop. If I fail, I reboot. Then I try again. Repeat until I hop grids on my first try."

That would conceivably always get you into the grid on your first try, maximizing your remaining time until the first increment.

[Darzil]

Why do you think you wouldn't get overwatch from the grid's successes as normal? The only thing happening here unusually is that normally with a successful brute force attack you gain marks and notify the victim, on a grid hop you just gain marks. With a Hack on the Fly if you fail you notify the victim, here you do not. You are still using Attack and Sleaze actions, and still start Overwatch and get a score equal to the defending grid's successes.

However, you are right that it's probably worth rebooting if you aren't under time pressure and fail. As no one has noticed you in this case, you'll not have anyone put on alert, so there is no loss.

[8-bit]

It starts the timer and increments your score. It does not alert the demiGOD that an illegal attempt has happened. Basically, your timer starts. Also, the defense dice (4 for local grids; 6 for global grids) have a chance to add to your OS. Each hit that they get when defending adds to your OS. And yes, your second edit would work. Except, if you fail to grid-hop, you kind of have built your decker wrong, or have the worst luck ever. 4 or 6 dice to defend is nothing.

[Darzil]

Except, if you fail to grid-hop, you kind of have built your decker wrong, or have the worst luck ever. 4 or 6 dice to defend is nothing.

Heh, the GM was amazed last week when I failed to grid hop to a local grid (4 dice) with my decker (18 dice). Was getting all excited, then I said "then I reboot and try again".

[8-bit]

Except, if you fail to grid-hop, you kind of have built your decker wrong, or have the worst luck ever. 4 or 6 dice to defend is nothing.

Heh, the GM was amazed last week when I failed to grid hop to a local grid (4 dice) with my decker (18 dice). Was getting all excited, then I said "then I reboot and try again".

It's not that it's impossible, but it's so insignificant in 99.99999% of situations that it doesn't matter, as you can just reboot. Although that is pretty funny.

[Adder]

It starts the timer and increments your score. It does not alert the demiGOD that an illegal attempt has happened.

I think that's the part that I'm a bit confused about. Does this mean that whenever someone fails an illegal action in a host the demiGOD is "alerted"? Does that have any rules impact or is that just up to the GM to implement the followup? And grid hopping would not trigger whatever that action normally would be.

[Kincaid]

If you perform an illegal action (Attack or Sleaze), you create ripples in the Matrix and your OS starts to tick.

There are separate penalties for failing a Brute Force or Hack on the Fly action, as noted in the core book.  Those penalties do not apply to the Grid Hop action.

[bogert]

If you perform an illegal action (Attack or Sleaze), you create ripples in the Matrix and your OS starts to tick.

There are separate penalties for failing a Brute Force or Hack on the Fly action, as noted in the core book.  Those penalties do not apply to the Grid Hop action.

Specifically, if you succeed on Attack action or fail on a Sleaze action, you immediately notify the owner of the thing you were trying to hack that someone's trying to hack him.

So, if you're trying to hack a grid, and then you're supposed to notify the owner of the grid that he's being hacked, what happens? You might think that maybe GOD should immediately show up or something. Those sections of the Brute Force and Hack On The Fly writeups are just saying that you don't do that.

[Kincaid]

Could you give an example of "hacking a grid"?  Grid Hop requires zero marks, so there's no risk of failing a Hack on the Fly roll prior to rolling Grid Hop.