[LordGrizzle]

Hello!

I am struggling with the wording for injection toxins. It says they can be coated onto a weapon and be applied with any attack that deals damage. Does that mean anything but a grazing blow applies the poison, or is the poison also ineffective if my armor roll reduces the final damage to zero?

Thanks!

[8-bit]

My reading is that any hit, even a grazing hit, delivers the toxin. I would also say that if the Soak roll reduces the damage to zero, the poison didn't make it into your system.

[Namikaze]

My reading is that any hit, even a grazing hit, delivers the toxin. I would also say that if the Soak roll reduces the damage to zero, the poison didn't make it into your system.

I would handle the soak roll as the initial Toxin Resistance test.  Otherwise, spot on.

[Herr Brackhaus]

My reading is that any hit, even a grazing hit, delivers the toxin. I would also say that if the Soak roll reduces the damage to zero, the poison didn't make it into your system.

Which begs the question, what kind of grazing hit actually inflicts damage? As far as I know, touch-only attacks are the only attacks that can inflict damage on a grazing hit, in most (every?) other cases a grazing hit means no damage from the weapon attack.

My reading is that any hit, even a grazing hit, delivers the toxin. I would also say that if the Soak roll reduces the damage to zero, the poison didn't make it into your system.

I would handle the soak roll as the initial Toxin Resistance test.  Otherwise, spot on.

Oh? As far as I can tell, a character hit by a weapon coated with toxins should by all rights get both a damage resistance test and a toxin resistance test. Remember, the toxin resistance test is not made until the end of the appropriate combat turn as per the speed of the toxin, and when you roll to resist damage you get to include armor, which is not applicable to resist toxins. To my mind, the two have to be separate tests for all intents and purposes because they use slightly different mechanics (AV and Rating of protective gear, with different results for most toxins based on remaining power vs specific attributes for example).

[LordGrizzle]

My reading is that any hit, even a grazing hit, delivers the toxin. I would also say that if the Soak roll reduces the damage to zero, the poison didn't make it into your system.

Which begs the question, what kind of grazing hit actually inflicts damage? As far as I know, touch-only attacks are the only attacks that can inflict damage on a grazing hit, in most (every?) other cases a grazing hit means no damage from the weapon attack.

Good Point, shouldn't that be the one thing that differentiates injection vector toxins from contact vector toxins? Not sure about that but it seems logical to me.

[UnLimiTeD]

I think Contact Vector would require getting though Chemical Protection, however.

[Namikaze]

Oh? As far as I can tell, a character hit by a weapon coated with toxins should by all rights get both a damage resistance test and a toxin resistance test.

I'm not talking about weapons coated in a toxin.  I'm talking about injection vector toxins delivered via a weapon.  Narocject pistols, chemical rounds, etc.  If you hit someone with a knife that's coated in a toxin, then sure they should get both resistance tests.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

For injection based toxins I would run it as did the soak stop all damage, if so the armor stopped the round (needle, knife, etc) from penetrating far enough to actually poison the target.

[DigitalZombie]

hhm If a character was attacked by a poisoned knife, but his armour rating was high enough to convert the damage to stun. Wouldnt he then be safe from the toxin? as the attack didnt penetrate the armour but just gave him some blue bruises.

[UnLimiTeD]

That's a good question, given that nose bleeding f.Ex. is stun damage.
In most cases it should be physical, which means you'd need called shots to really do damage to heavily armoured individuals.

[Reaver]

The big issue is the vector. In this case injection.

If the attack is with a weapon like an arrow or knife, then the projectile has to enter the target enough to deliver the toxin to the blood stream.... so if the attack does no damage, did it puncture the skin to deliver the toxin?

I say no. If the weapon's damage is negated, then the toxin does nothing.

[Namikaze]

The big issue is the vector. In this case injection.

If the attack is with a weapon like an arrow or knife, then the projectile has to enter the target enough to deliver the toxin to the blood stream.... so if the attack does no damage, did it puncture the skin to deliver the toxin?

I say no. If the weapon's damage is negated, then the toxin does nothing.

I agree.  It's not the physical/stun aspect so much as it's the binary value of damage done or not.  Damage <= 0, no toxin.  Damage >0, toxin.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Oh? As far as I can tell, a character hit by a weapon coated with toxins should by all rights get both a damage resistance test and a toxin resistance test.

I'm not talking about weapons coated in a toxin.  I'm talking about injection vector toxins delivered via a weapon.  Narocject pistols, chemical rounds, etc.  If you hit someone with a knife that's coated in a toxin, then sure they should get both resistance tests.

Ah, I see. Those would still not deliver toxins on a grazing hit, though, would they?

[Reaver]

Oh? As far as I can tell, a character hit by a weapon coated with toxins should by all rights get both a damage resistance test and a toxin resistance test.

I'm not talking about weapons coated in a toxin.  I'm talking about injection vector toxins delivered via a weapon.  Narocject pistols, chemical rounds, etc.  If you hit someone with a knife that's coated in a toxin, then sure they should get both resistance tests.

Ah, I see. Those would still not deliver toxins on a grazing hit, though, would they?

Not an injection vector... as a grazing hit doesn't do damage, thus no contact with the blood steam.

However, if the vector was 'contact' then yes a grazing hit would be enough.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Indeed; Capsule Rounds seem to be the best option for that kind of delivery system, paired with DMSO. Who needs the Super Squirt...