[zarzak]

I also find it interesting how close to Zarzak's ideas I was, Only big difference was swapping skills for attributes

Well, when he said he wanted a focus on cool cyber arm blades (which use unarmed) then it very much pushes you into building a certain way.

I'd definitely stick with guns if I was doing it, but cyber arm spurs definitely have that coolness factor.

[Hobbes]

For combat, I plan to give him some pistol skills but otherwise focusing in melee.   This shouldn't be too much of a stretch since as a security team member(I'm thinking former mid level rapid response team) it's likely he got some kind of physical training. I keep picturing him fighting with some kind of retractable blade hidden in each forearm as his main weapon.  I like the idea of some thug charging at him thinking he's about to geek the mage and not noticing the cyber arms until he's got a fist and a blade in his gut.

Melee focused burnt out mage.  Mechanically, easy-peasy.  Your first decision needs to be what kind of Mage?  Aspected, Adept, Mystical Adept, or Mage.  From your descriptions I think Adept is out.  It comes down to do you summon spirits or not.  You've been talking about spellcasting so you're either a Mage, Mystic Adept or a Sorcery Adept.  This is what will drive your Magic Priority.  Your Metatype Priority is going to be E.  I'd put your A in Resources.  Leaves you B,C,D.  You need at least a C for Mage or Mystic Adept (if you want to summon Spirits).  So B skills, D stats.  Or if you don't want to summon spirits you can go D Magic, B Skills, C Stats. 

Once you have your priorities the rest is "easy".  For melee focused characters you can go Monowhip and leave Str a dump stat.  Or go cyberlimbs and pump str up in the limb.  (You're not going to have enough stat points).  You're likely going to have at least one cyberarm for Agility, and possibly Str.  Datajack, Smartlink, Cybereyes, bone lacing, Orthoskin, possibly synaptic booster. 

Keep your Essence loss at 5 or less, I'd honestly just head straight to 4.9ish worth of Augments YMMV.  Buy magic up from 0 to 1 with Karma.  Carry on.  Mystic Adept math gets a wee more complicated.  You probably want less Augmentation and more magic and power points.   

Keep in mind in 5th edition Spellcasting tests are Magic + Spellcasting so look for unopposed utility spells.  Combat Sense, Heal, Increase Attribute, Increase Reflexes, levitate.  Stuff like that.  Conjuring a force 4 Spirit is simple enough, and you should be able to shake off the drain so its a skill to consider.  Assessing and Counterspelling have been mentioned previously. 

You're a magically active melee character.  Get a weapon focus and a Mentor spirit.  Fetish rules from p. 212 of Street Grimoire are worth a look, so are Reagents.   

[zarzak]

I'd put your A in Resources.

I don't think A in resources is necessary, because you don't need to buy reaction enhancers (thats usually ~half your nuyen expense if you do an A in resources).  Magic actually helps out quite a bit there.

[Marcus]

If they go mystic adept as the 'base' they can grab combat sense using powerpoint.

1. That still does not help with the Limit to the defense tests. You can have as big a dice pool as you want, with a low Limit, you're still going to get shredded.

2. At a certain point doing things like this, you just start committing limited resources to shore up a build that is slightly shoddy at the foundations. MysAd is actually a terrible idea here because if you go MysAd, you want to take PP equal to your Magic, and that takes away from your karma. It's really better to just invest in a R1 sustaining focus and play a Limit trick than expand into yet another thing you need to invest in to make good.

Straight Reaction + Intition rolls which would include combat sense the power, are not Subject to limits. So it's a non-issue.
Parrying dodge, are but that's not really here nor there.

(If you have questions See Page 47 of the core- "Tests using a single attribute, or two attributes, do not use limits.")

[ZeldaBravo]

1. That still does not help with the Limit to the defense tests. You can have as big a dice pool as you want, with a low Limit, you're still going to get shredded.

Huh? You mean melee defence test one-time bonuses from Parry, Dodge, and Block?

[Top Dog]

1. That still does not help with the Limit to the defense tests. You can have as big a dice pool as you want, with a low Limit, you're still going to get shredded.

Huh? You mean melee defence test one-time bonuses from Parry, Dodge, and Block?

See, I was wondering that. Whiskeyjack, Defense tests don't have a limit, normally (unless you parry, dodge or block a melee attack). A low limit is annoying, to be sure, but it's not crippling.

Well, it IS crippling for melee, actually. I was playing around with a build yesterday. It's not very good (skills C is a bad idea, btw), but when I compare it with JmOz01, I notice he has to put a LOT of money in Essence to get STR up in his arms, and base STR and AGI up to decent levels (for the limit and movement, I presume). A ranged character doesn't need that, and can instead put that in, say, Armor. Because with that body, and no armor, you're gonna go squish. Especially if people still think you're a mage. Melee mage with cyberspurs just needs too many things to work, I think. A monowhip might work, but then you still need the movement.

[zarzak]

So, for fun, I made a build based on how I would do this concept ... no melee, but other than that its a burnout mage.

Backstory is the same as the OP's - worked for a corps (Ares), had x happen (shadowrunners, accident, whatever).  He lost an arm, and his eyes/ears.  Getting them replaced cost him his essence, and his life savings.  Ares didn't pay for it (of course) and had an over abundance of meat muscle so let him go.  Now he needs to shadowrun to pay the bills.

Overall he's actually pretty solid, at least in combat.  Very good dicepools in automatics and heavy weaponry, he can bring the hurt in a firefight.  He brings some utility to the team with his spellcasting as well - 12 dice for health spells isn't shabby.  He's decently sneaky and perceptive, but not much of a talker (stereotypical street sam).

He's defensive enough to also last a bit.  He could use some more armor, but thats not too hard to acquire down the road.  He's spent 2.3 essence, so he's got .7 more he can spend before he takes another hit to his magic.  He could raise up his basic skills, but thats not a bit karma investment.  I sort of like him.

------
Priority:
A - Attributes
B - Nuyen
C - Magic (Mystic Adept)
D - Skills
E - Metatype (Human)

Attributes (could flip reaction and strength)
Body - 5
Agility - 8 (6 base + 2 from bioware)
Reaction - 4
Strength - 5
Willpower - 5
Logic - 1
Intuition - 5
Charisma - 1
Edge - 3
Essence - 3
Magic - 2 (bought with Karma)

Derived Values:
Mental Limit - 4
Physical Limit - 7
Social Limit - 4 (+2 more from armor?)
Condition Boxes: Physical - 11
Condition Boxes: Stun - 11
Condition Boxes: Overflow - 5
Armor - 16

Positive Qualities
Mentor Spirit - Bear
Agile Defender (probably not necessary)
Restricted Gear (Cyber Grenade Launcher)

Negative Qualities (need 25 points, can play around with this)
Unusual Hair
Corp Limited Sin (Ares)
Combat Junkie

Skills:
Automatics - 6 (SMG Specialization) (+1 from reflex recorder) - Dice Pool: 15 (17)
Heavy Weapons - 6 (Grenade Launchers) - Dice Pool: 14 (16)
Spellcasting - 6 (Health Specialization) (Health Mentor Spirit) - Dice Pool: 8 (12)
Perception - 1 (+3 for audio/visual from cyber) - Dice Pool: 6 (9)
Sneaking - 2 <-- bought with karma --> - Dice Pool: 10
Etiquette - 1 <-- bought with karma --> - Dice Pool: 2

Knowledge Skills:
English - N
Magic Theory (Academic) - 3
Ares Security (Corp) - 4
Japanese (Language) - 2
Combat Trids (Interest) - 3

Tradition: Egyptian (because why not! But really, any INT+Will tradition works)

Spells:
Increase Reflexes
Increase X (agility, strength, whatever)
Heal
Levitate
Some Combat Spell (whatever you want, really - this is just for fun)

PowerPoints:
Combat Sense (II) - costs 1 point

Karma Breakdown:
32 karma remaining after qualities
15 Karma = Magic 2
5 Karma = 1 PowerPoint
6 Karma = Sneaking 2
2 Karma = Etiquette 1
2 Karma = Sustaining Focus I
2 Karma = Sustaining Focus 1
0 Karma remaining

Contacts:
Ares Headhunter - 2 connection, 1 loyalty

Gear:
Fake SIN (IV)
Fake License (IV) - Firearms
Fake License (IV) - Magic

Low Lifestyle (1 month)
Certified Credstick (Silver)

Datajack
CyberEyes (III)
  Image Link, Camera, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Low-Light Vision, Vision Magnification, Vision Enhancement (III)
CyberEars (II)
  Sound Link, Damper, Spatial Recognizer, Select Sound Filter (II), Audio Enhancement (III)
Full Obvious Cyberarm (L)
  Base Agility 6, Base Strength 6
  Cyber Grenade Launcher, 10 grenades of varying type
Muscle Toner (II)
Reflex Recorder (Automatics)

Sustaining Focus (Health) (I)
Sustaining Focus (Health) (I)
Reagent - 100x Dram

Suzuki Mirage

Meta Link - burner commlink
Transys Avalon w/Sim Module
AR Gloves

Berwick Suit
Argentum Coat
Forearm Guards

Ares Sigma Six - SMG from Gun Heaven 3
Ammo x100

Ares Alpha - Assault Rifle
Ammo x100
Grenades x10

Ares Crusader II - Machine Pistol
Ammo x100

Medkit (Rating IV)

~5000 nuyen left to play with

[Whiskeyjack]

Defense isn't subject to Limit? Huh. The more you know. Need to remind myself to tell my GM that.

At any rate, eh, Combat Sense 1 with a PP is kind of a waste IMO. But I never take just 1 with PP. I like as many dodging dice as I can get my hands on.

I do think it's a waste to not max PP if you go MysAd because you'll never really have the chance to max that if not at chargen and if you go that route it is always worth maxing it out.

[Top Dog]

At any rate, eh, Combat Sense 1 with a PP is kind of a waste IMO. But I never take just 1 with PP. I like as many dodging dice as I can get my hands on.

Combat Sense 1 triggers the "always get a perception to avoid surprise" clause. It is supreme value.

[Whiskeyjack]

At any rate, eh, Combat Sense 1 with a PP is kind of a waste IMO. But I never take just 1 with PP. I like as many dodging dice as I can get my hands on.

Combat Sense 1 triggers the "always get a perception to avoid surprise" clause. It is supreme value.

Yes I am aware of that. My point is I rarely take just 1 because +1 die to defense isn't that great. That comes up for me much more frequently than the perception test (somehow in my games we are consistently the ambushes rather than the ambushed).

I like to throw as many dice as possible in my free action defense tests. Buying CS1 with PP isn't as valuable to me as sustaining a Limit-played CS spell with a F1 focus which is almost guaranteed to get more than 1 hit. Your only real worry there is BC and wards, which, the latter at least you can try to detect. But for day to day "carry" I'd say it's a better investment unless you buy more than CS 1 with PP. unless of course you very frequently deal with BC and wards.

[Marcus]

I'm not trying to say that the combat sense thing is a great idea, I think it could work, but in general i don't really like mystic adept. I do just want to say that the cyberarm stat dump trick can work if you go about it correctly.  Is it perfect? Of course not there are plenty of risks. But for the concept lossing an arm is story wise something people can understand, it can be purely psychological, as to why the character was kicked out.

Burning is something I find to be somewhat self defeating, your giving up a pile of Karma whenever you go from magic 6 to magic 5. But the cyberlimb trick can be worth it.

[zarzak]

I'm not trying to say that the combat sense thing is a great idea, I think it could work, but in general i don't really like mystic adept. I do just want to say that the cyberarm stat dump trick can work if you go about it correctly.  Is it perfect? Of course not there are plenty of risks. But for the concept lossing an arm is story wise something people can understand, it can be purely psychological, as to why the character was kicked out.

Burning is something I find to be somewhat self defeating, your giving up a pile of Karma whenever you go from magic 6 to magic 5. But the cyberlimb trick can be worth it.

You'd only ever start at Magic 6 if you plan to just drop 1 point of essence; it can sometimes be worth it.

In this instance the highest you'd ever want to start is magic Priority C (so you can be a full magician or mystic adept).

[Whiskeyjack]

Even at Priority C (AFB so don't know how many MAG points that gives) you still have to be careful about MAG reduction due to ESS loss though.

Say you're MAG 3 and ESS 6. You take some ware and drop to ESS 5.1. My reading is you also drop to MAG 2. Take a little more ware and you're at ESS 4.0. Now you have MAG 1. Any more ESS loss, even .1, without raising MAG and you hit MAG 0 and burn out. Right?

Of course my assumption is you start at say MAG 3 from priority, buy it up a little with Special Attribute Points, then drop it down with ware.

If this assumption is wrong then by all means please correct me.

[zarzak]

Even at Priority C (AFB so don't know how many MAG points that gives) you still have to be careful about MAG reduction due to ESS loss though.

Say you're MAG 3 and ESS 6. You take some ware and drop to ESS 5.1. My reading is you also drop to MAG 2. Take a little more ware and you're at ESS 4.0. Now you have MAG 1. Any more ESS loss, even .1, without raising MAG and you hit MAG 0 and burn out. Right?

Of course my assumption is you start at say MAG 3 from priority, buy it up a little with Special Attribute Points, then drop it down with ware.

If this assumption is wrong then by all means please correct me.

Thats actually not quite correct - the details are on page 278.

There are a few factors here:
Essence
Current Magic Rating
Maximum Magic Rating

Your essence is simple: It starts at 6 and can go down.  For every point of essence you lose, you reduce both your current magic rating and your maximum magic rating.

Maximum Magic Rating is 6+Initiation level (unless you take exceptional attribute, then its 7+initiation level).  So at Chargen its effectively 6.

Your current Magic Rating is whatever your Magic attribute starts at (so 3, or 5, or 6, or whatever).

If your current Magic Rating is reduced to 0 you can't cast spells until you buy it back to a positive number.  You are not burned out.

If your maximum magic Rating is reduced to 0 you are burned out.  So no starting with 5.1 essence worth of cyber.

----

What this means at Chargen:

Say you start with Priority C in magic (this gives you Magic 3):
Essence = 6
Maximum Magic = 6
Current Magic = 3

Say you then take 3.5 essence worth of Cyber
Essence = 2
Maximum Magic = 2
Current Magic = 0 (you can't have a negative attribute score).

You can then buy your Current Magic back up to 2 points for 15 karma (5 karma for 0->1, 10 karma for 1->2).  Your magic cap is now 2 until you initiate.

[ZeldaBravo]

Yep. You only fully burn out when your max magic hits zero.