[ScytheKnight]

Honestly a lot of the issues would be resolved IF YOU WOULD JUST START RELEASING ERRATA AGAIN! I know I've gone through this over, and OVER, and OVER again... but that's because there STILL has been no errata since fragging Street Grimiore!

WHAT

THE

DRECK

IS

GOING

ON!?

[adzling]

Read the battlecorps customer service thread in this forum sub-section and you will have a good idea how much the management at Catalyst care about their customers.

Now factor that into the lack of errata.

Hey a logical rational for why there is no errata!

[Herr Brackhaus]

<censored>

Turn your speaker volume up to 11, then click this, and sing along
https://youtu.be/F9UKNwlhhpo?t=1m48s

[falar]

Whoa. People. Chill. This is not where you're going to get traction on the things you want. All you're going to do is tick off and burn out the freelancers and employees who pour blood, sweat and tears into the project and come here because they love Shadowrun and love what they do. This vitriol doesn't do crap.

If you want traction, you do three things:

• You write sane, legible letters to the company detailing what's wrong and what it makes you feel like as a consumer. Go wild. Make it 20 pages. Include comparisons to other RPG companies of a similar size.
• You don't buy a thing until you know it's worth your time.
• You fix what you do have and make a largely, widely accepted alternate set of rules that you then convert large parts of the market to using. Go unsupported Pathfinder, basically.

Swearing at the company on a forum isn't going to go anywhere. Writing letters to Jason, Mark, Jeff, Adam, Aaron, Scott, RJ, Malik, Thomas, Chuck, Bruce, Mason, Francis, David, Jeremy, Jackson, Jacob, Derek, Euegen, Joanna, Tim, Kendall, Richard, Matt, Leland, Peter and Matt that shows you care and what you want them to care about will make a hell of a lot more impact.

[ScytheKnight]

Falar, trust me I'm not directing anything at the Freelancers here.

I'm just getting REALLY frustrated at the Cone of Silence regarding errata, and I get a bit erratic when frustrated.

[falar]

Falar, trust me I'm not directing anything at the Freelancers here.

You may not be intending to, but your vitriol can't hit anyone who can make a difference. The only people who can hear you here are just about as powerless as you are. If you want your voice to be heard, you need to apply it effectively.

[AJCarrington]

Second time I've had to post in this thread as a mod (though it has been a while)...going to ask one final time that everyone take a step back.

I have no issues with people providing critique or criticism...I do have issue when it is not done constructively or reasonably.

[ScytheKnight]

On the issue of lack of errata, not sure how successfully I can do that so going to keep quiet about it.

Yes, yes, talk to the right people I know... just it frustrates me enough that I doubt my ability to write such a missive without degenerating into a frustration fueled rant.

[Csjarrat]

Just want to add one voice to the call for errata.
Not impressed with rigger 5.0. Lots of issues that need fixing.

[Novocrane]

A serious sit down, rebuild, and groundwork layout would not go astray. Including a reprint with new cover art, as was done with 4e. Hoping for that day with some of the covers.

There's a notable amount that was done where the left hand and right hand lack apparent communication, and a number of other instances where assumptions were made on 4th edition rules that weren't included in 5th edition.

I can't imagine that would be a good thing to deal with, but the alternative is digging the hole deeper.

[jim1701]

Falar, trust me I'm not directing anything at the Freelancers here.

I'm just getting REALLY frustrated at the Cone of Silence regarding errata, and I get a bit erratic when frustrated.

I find it even more frustrating considering that in the same company they have been using a highly effective method for collecting and generating errata over on the Battletech forums for around a decade now and yet to this day the Shadowrun team has been unable and/or unwilling to implement anything approaching a similar solution. 

And to be clear this is all on the editing staff IMHO.  The quality of the writing as far as the fiction goes has been quite good throughout.  But there are so many places where the rules are contradictory, incomplete and/or vague that the lack of virtually any official errata is petty maddening. 

Also, a rules forum where questions can be asked and answered (but not cluttered with comments from the peanut gallery) would be awesome too.  There are probably a lot of issues that don't even need written errata.  Just a little clarification where a rule might be a little vague and open to more interpretation than was originally intended. 

I'd also mention a Ask the Devs forum and a Ask the Writers forum but, you know, baby steps.... 

[adzling]

It's pretty clear the line editing for Srun has never been up to the same quality as Battletech.

I'm coming around to the conclusion that Catalyst really doesn't want to design, market and sell Srun 5e rules.

Rather they want to author, market and sell endless buckets of Srun fiction.

Or at least the line editor for Srun does.

Heck he's even written a few Srun novels himself with all that spare time not spent editing/managing the rules of the game Srun.

I find it even more frustrating considering that in the same company they have been using a highly effective method for collecting and generating errata over on the Battletech forums for around a decade now and yet to this day the Shadowrun team has been unable and/or unwilling to implement anything approaching a similar solution. 

And to be clear this is all on the editing staff IMHO.  The quality of the writing as far as the fiction goes has been quite good throughout.  But there are so many places where the rules are contradictory, incomplete and/or vague that the lack of virtually any official errata is petty maddening. 

[Duellist_D]

Cheap fan-fic?

You say you respect us then insult our work. That's not respect. Not sure what it is, but it's not respect. Stop lying to us.

I can respect you as a human being and still think your work is not worth a penny to pay, those things have nothing to do with each other ("You" as in a non-specific way, i have no idea what you, as the Person "Patrick Goodman" wrote).
[editinsert]
You produce a piece of work, we pay for it. You'll have to live with us voicing our opinion on it, even if said opinion is harsh/brutal (ie: "This story is crap" "that rule is nonsensical and doesn't fit into the rest of the rules canon"). Thats the nature of work life. Though you don't need to put up with personal insults, thats very much true. Still, you != your work. If you write stuff, you must be able to deal with criticism, even when people judge it harshly. And while SR 5 is an enjoyable experience overall, there is much to criticise left, of which a few points actually warant very harsh criticism.

[/editinser]

On topic of the Question:

I enjoy SR5.
I bought every single SR5 Crunch book barring one that is out of print and ridiculously priced on the secondary market and also a lot wasted a lot of money of Books with premade Adventures / campaing books.

That being said, SR5s Editing has a lot to improve. There are no nice words to say about Data Trails, so I'll refrain from that. I'll note on the plus side though, that we now at least got ToC and chapters that make somewhat sense, so its improving but not good.
What i dislike quite a lot and this is directed at the Freelancers:
Please try to talk to each other a bit more, even if you are not working on the same book.
Its SUPER annoying to have contradicting rules/items in two different books, because two different Writers worked on stuff that was in different books but shared a common theme.
Newest Example: Drones.

A bit less "hate" (wrong word, i know, don't nail me on that i'm not a native speaker) on cyber would also be nice.
I'm not in the "Magerun!!!!!11111" boat, but there is really no need to add a "failsafe antipower" rule to every other nice piece of hardware you design that makes it basically useless.
You don't do this with Adept powers, there is really no need to go that route with Cyberware.

A few final shots at the fluff parts:
I am SO sick of all these super special snowflake type of characters (ie Red). Just my personal two cents, but increasing the numbers of Jackpointers that don't define themselves by being the biggest collection of special "unique" attributes in one person or by collecting the most "Gary Stue / Mary Sue" (1) points would do the fluff sections some good. Same goes with author-selfinserts.
Seriously, Clockwork is one of the least obnoxious Jackpointers at the moment in my opinion.

I mean, you guys have talent, its not like i'm talking to 15 year old girls writing their first Yaoi-Story on FF.net
I like quite a few of your short stories. Pacing works, topics are interesting and handled nicely in the context the corresponding crunch chapters provide.
Its just....
Less MartyMcSuperawesome, the hyperskilled Awesomemancer, more Dirk Montgomery 

(1)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[edit insert 2]
I actually forgot one of the most relevant points

Errata
Seriously, Errors do happen, thats alright.
But at least fix them (early ) and do it in a way a bit more official than the Missions FAQ or page long Forum Threads (though those are indeed better than nothing, but still....).
[/edit insert2]

[Sendaz]

It's pretty clear the line editing for Srun has never been up to the same quality as Battletech.

I'm coming around to the conclusion that Catalyst really doesn't want to design, market and sell Srun 5e rules.

Rather they want to author, market and sell endless buckets of Srun fiction.

Or at least the line editor for Srun does.

Heck he's even written a few Srun novels himself with all that spare time not spent editing/managing the rules of the game Srun.

Now I can not say why there seems to be a disparity between the two lines like this, but the fiction alone probably isn't at fault
Otherwise there would be a ton more fiction out, because the people are hungry for it. 
If we were given the option of chaining Patrick Goodman or Critias up to a desk to make them write around the clock non-stop, my good nature would probably set them free though I would be sorely tempted.

While I can agree there are more than a few issues that should have been caught at the editor level, and by all means call him on it, saying how he is just writing SR novels instead of doing his job is a bit of a disservice. 
It's a minor point I realize and I have no problems with bitching someone out when they screw up, but the recipients of my wrath also know I only chew them out for what they have actually done/not done.

[Reaver]

And people wonder why the freelancers are becoming more and more rare here.

3 years ago, you couldn't open a single thread without a freelancer commenting on it. Be it funny, informative, sharing an idea, or just chewing the shit.

Now, you can't find a freelancer to save your life!



Well, after reading 9 pages of "YOU FUCKING SUCK!!!", I know why they are so rare here now.


And I have to admit, if I was a freelancer, i'd give many of you here the double finger salute, and not ever come back! Heck I'd be sorely tempted to NOT write anything again for SR as you're all just a bunch of whiny spoiled little crybabies and have no appreciation for time and effort I put in....


Be DAMN thankful that the freelancers have heart and soul for SR. If it wasn't for them, you'd have nothing at all.