[Tjaeden]

Hey everyone!

Long time Shadowrun GM (1st, 2nd, 3rd - skipped 4th), new player to 5th edition.

My group of friends are hard at work making killing machines and arcane dynamos.  I would like something that will help them all out, tactically, and game mechanically.

To that end - using Normal Priority System (I'm pushing for Prime), I would like to make a Leadership oriented drone rigger, who can provide sniper over-watch.  This guy was the leader of a trained UCAS strike team, specializing in retrieval.  Group got geeked, and retirement costs are mounting.  Maybe he needs to prove to himself that it wasn't his fault.  Maybe he can stop it from happening all over again.

I would like to accomplish 5 things, in descending order of importance:

1. High Charisma + Tailored Pheromones + 1st Impression = Negotiations, Leadership (Rally Focus?), Contacts, Etiquette
2. Up to 4 Horizon Flying Eyes to fly over-watch above, transmitting Team location, health, objectives, etc
3. Secure Commlines!  I also want to buy all the transceivers, sub-vocal mics, etc needed for 5 Runners.
4. 1 SUV with NO2 & Thermal Dampening with cargo space for 5 runners + gear
5. Sniper Rifle (I like the Desert Strike) with Smart-Firing platform (wireless on) - for personal and RIG'd use.

If possible, I would like 1 or 2 flying drones that can pop flash-bang/thermal smoke grenades.

Questions
What skills do I need to focus on?
How many of these drones should I be running at once? Minimum 4, at least, but can I run more?
What kind of VCR should I get?
Do I need to worry about hacking/programs?  What about counter-hacking programs? (we will NOT have a decker)
Human or Elf?
Is this too much for a starting character to shoot for?

Thanks for all the help in advance - looking forward to posting more =)

P.S. Think 1 cybereye with an ocular drone and an eye patch is too much?

[Whiskeyjack]

Ok first and foremost this character sounds incredibly MAD. Everyone wants high INT and REA. This character wants high AGI and LOG to shoot and do rigging stuff. Everyone needs at least average BOD and WIL. That's only dumping STR which is not much.

Face and LOG archetypes (decker/rigger) is a hard combo to pull off because there is minimal synergy between attributes and skills (unlike, say, shaman face or hermetic decker).

The archetypal face wants high CHA (hard cap + Tailored Pheromones), Con 6 w/spec, Negotiate 6 w/spec, and a point or two of Etiquette (letting the CHA stat itself do the heavy lifting). Leadership adds another component that can be problematic. Yes Leadership is a decent skill, no I don't find it super worthwhile when you also want to be shooting and directing drones. You only have so many actions per pass after all. It's like taking 6 weapon skills - you're only going to use 1 a pass and likely only to use 1 a combat.

Based on your background you want Small Group Tactics (see Run&Gun) and Perception w/visual spec at high rating.

I would suggest if you want to be a full on rigger with control rig, minimize something else. That said you can easily be a shooter with a swarm of drones tied to a decent RCC who just so happens to also have a decent car and be a face. You need EW as a rigger regardless. You want a good RCC and probably a commlink with good firewall.

You will want a datajack, retinal smartlink, and probably Wired Reflexes and Cerebral Boosters.

You can't really hack without a decker. No, I don't care about the new dongles. It's not comparable. It's a backup or a stopgap not a replacement for a deck  and actual decker skills. Have high firewall and hope your GM isn't a dick who will give you paydata runs you can't complete.

Ocular drone kinda sucks.

I would say go human since the edge will benefit you more than 2 CHA. IMO. At any rate you'll probably be:

Resources A (probably. for the ware and gear)
Attributes B (it's hard to be good at lower)
Skills C (rough but absent sum to 10 there's nothing else you can do, you just have to be very smart and cut certain things, probably no Con for example)
Metatype D
Magic E

This is a lot to deal with in 1 chargen character especially at Skills C. If anything is focus on the drones. Get a rotodrone with a sniper rifle if nothing else. Or drop your sniper idea and go Automatics. The problem with sniper rifles is they're mostly SA so one shot per pass. At a lower pool that sucks. If you can spray and pray on full auto, throwing out big defense penalties, your lower pool is less of a big deal. Just make sure you've optimized for RC.

I would encourage one of the other players to be a smooth talker. It's quite easy for CHA mages and elf sams to be good as a face too. Like I said, rigger/face is tough.

[Whiskeyjack]

The hardest thing is skills.

Everyone wants Perception.

90%+ want some degree of Sneaking even if it's just 1.

Virtually everyone wants Etiquette 1. Maybe even Con 1 to buy a hit or to be able to Edge.

Deckers want, oh, 3-4 archetype-specific skills near or at 6. Mages and mystic adepts want 3-5. Adepts and sams usually want both a ranged and a melee skill at 6 and a good way to boost dodge (Gymnastics for example). Riggers want high Gunnery and EW at least, and whatever the roll is for Control Device; if you're a control rig rigger you want very good Pilot, probably ground craft, because control rigging a car makes you the ultimate wheelman. Pure faces want to start with Con and Negotiate at 6 and an Etiquette pool of 7+. Adding Leadership to this is more resources.

Basically everyone wants a ton of archetype skills at 6. The lower your skill priority the harder this is. The more you play against type (by which I mean a blended LOG/CHA character with little overlap between skills and attributes), the harder this is. Etc.

[Tjaeden]

Thanks for the quick reply! 

Perception should be high on the list, but I don't need/want Con.  The focus of this guy is more Leadership, and then Negotiate/Etiquette.  With Leadership [Rally], every 2 hits is +1 to all teammate's initiative score.  I don't think that should be underestimated.  If needed, inspire can counter-act a bad surprise round as well.

INT will be sacrificed for a higher Reaction, for Pilot skills - but I should only need 2 of those, and I can specialize in the drones.

I won't need Wired Reflexes, and I don't plan to be in the thick of combat - a stealth suit would be a more viable alternative (which is why I was leaning towards elf, the bonus AGI and CHA seem to fit this build perfect).

 I don't have access to Run&Gun atm, can you give me a quick synopsis of "Small Unit Tactics"?  Sound perfect.

*I* don't want to hack.  I was wondering what skills/gear I needed as a Rigger to stop other Riggers/Decker from a) commandeering my drones b) hacking my signal c) squelching com lines, etc.

The sniper rifle idea comes from the movie "The Jackal" (Great SR movie if you haven't seen it) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119395/

Basically, I am far away, calling the shots so to speak. 

Before Combat - Drones on Overwatch (almost 24/7)
Surprise - If we win, Rally, if we don't, Inspire
Turn 1 - Flash Bangs/Thermal smoke
Turn 2 - provide cover & clear escape
Turn 3 -
Turn 4 - Profit!

I'm thinking a combat drone for when my team has to go in tight places - but more like an auto-mated med kit with a gun.

Thanks again, you've already helped me a ton =)

[Kincaid]

Small Unit Tactics allows for different types of maneuvers to be pulled off--granting some sort of bonus to your dice or some sort of penalty to your opposition's dice (or both).  It's linked to Intuition and my immediate thought was to have your character use SUT in place of Leadership (and I love Leadership) for similar thematic effect.  You're still barking orders over your commlink and you're still getting people to overlap fields of fire, etc.  Drones have fairly interesting potential when it comes to interacting with SUT as well.

Memorize the weapon range table.  Barring that, have it on hand at all times.  Drones are very fragile in 5e, so if your roto-drone is hovering 15m above its target, there's a good chance it's not long for this world.  On the other hand, if it's 351 meters away from its target, the bad guy might decide that spending a Complex Action with a -6 penalty just isn't worth it.  The obvious follow up to this is that combat drones don't work particularly well inside--that's where your scouting drones come into play.

Perception is a staple skill, but you can use a drone's sensor in place of it, so there are workarounds available to you.

[Whiskeyjack]

Well I will say Con is much more useful in the bulk of a run than Negotiation. Negotiating gets you more money which is great. But it's not really going to get you places you need to be but can't get to. So I'd say a field person should try to be good at Con or Intimidation. Likewise you need only minimal investment in Etiquette when you have CHA 6+ and Tailored Pheromones. Those will do the heavy lifting in the dice pool.

Keep in mind without Wired Reflexes or drugs your initiative will probably suck. And giving people a little more initiative isn't bad but you might find it boring to do that over and over.

Small Group Tactics I can't really sum up beyond saying you decide a thing to do, like move in a covered formation, make rolls and get benefits to doing so. That is a very very brief synopsis and I can't go into a lot more detail because so much depends on the formation. Like everything in SR it is very crunch heavy. It's like a 10 page section of that book so it's hard to just summarize that, plus I'm AFB at the moment.

Keep in mind that sniper rifles are great guns but sniping as a tactic is hard in SR. Most combat takes place in urban areas or inside, at close range, with limited long range LOS. Most times you will not have much opportunity to set up a sniper nest and even if you do it's likely that circumstances might make the location relatively useless. It's better to be with your team carrying a rifle than trying to set up shooting from several blocks or so away. The game does not support that concept very well and it never has. Moreover the PCs are more often the ambushed than the am ushers which puts picking a nest right out.

Elf isn't bad. But 2 more edge is better. IMO.

Preventing hacking is basically having a good Firewall. A decker is going to be able to notice a hacker tinkering with his team's stuff and respond by attacking his deck. You're not going to have that option. I doubt you'll even be able to make many Matrix Perception tests; your attention doesn't seem focused on that. Or, rather, you don't really have the actions and the skills to get into that as well.

Really if you want be a character who stays in the van to coordinate but snipes, the better option is to use a control rig to jump into a rotodrone with a sniper rifle. Of course this can't go everywhere and you risk a lot with biofeedback.

[Tjaeden]

Well I will say Con is much more useful in the bulk of a run than Negotiation. Negotiating gets you more money which is great. But it's not really going to get you places you need to be but can't get to. So I'd say a field person should try to be good at Con or Intimidation. Likewise you need only minimal investment in Etiquette when you have CHA 6+ and Tailored Pheromones. Those will do the heavy lifting in the dice pool.

You can use Leadership kind of like Con, in a lot of different ways.  But it's just not how this guy is going.

Keep in mind without Wired Reflexes or drugs your initiative will probably suck. And giving people a little more initiative isn't bad but you might find it boring to do that over and over.

My last D&D character was a bard.  I buffed the party so well, that very little could stand in the way of 1 rounds worth of coordinated attack.  And I had no trouble using my turn to "Keep Singing!"

I like the SUT idea, I will have to pick that book up next.  But not if its based on Intuition...  =/

And yeah, sniping is very situational - but that's okay.  I think I can pack an Ingram SMG if needed.  Or a shotgun.

Elf isn't bad. But 2 more edge is better. IMO.

I think you may be right.  Especially if I use Edge on a Leadership test right off the bat.

Drones are very fragile in 5e, so if your roto-drone is hovering 15m above its target, there's a good chance it's not long for this world.  On the other hand, if it's 351 meters away from its target, the bad guy might decide that spending a Complex Action with a -6 penalty just isn't worth it.  The obvious follow up to this is that combat drones don't work particularly well inside--that's where your scouting drones come into play.

Thanks Kincaid, I think my plan for the Flying eyes was to be at maximum height to provide a 4-point combined ground picture, that I can broadcast into everyone's HUD (goggles or cybereyes).  So, hopefully, with all the other drone traffic, and the small size of those drones, they shouldn't be noticed.  But, maybe there is a discount for a rack of 10?

I can build a decimating mage, or a troll death-machine, or an invincible batman adept - but i'm looking for something with more flavor, that can really be an asset for the team to use.  As a former GM playing with semi-experienced players, I don't want to dominate the table, and instead focus our collective efforts on the run, and having fun =)

You guys ever see the show, Leverage?

[Whiskeyjack]

Small Unit Tactics is indeed intuition based. I really think you should consider finding a way to raise this. It's often considered one of the top two most important attributes for everyone in the game.

I wouldn't pick up an SMG. I'd get an autofire shotgun. You don't have the points to invest in Automatics if you're set on Longarms.

Sniping is situational but sniper rifles are great so long as you can beat the dodges. AGI, skill 6, spec, smart gun/link, maybe Muscle Toner and you'll be set at any range. People can use sniper rifles at 2 yards away after all with no penalty. And most of that carries over if you get a shotgun.

I would say with drones...think about what you're going to spend actions on. You can send 1 command to multiple drones easily with an RCC and they will keep doing that. You probably can only use Leadership once per turn. Aside from that is shooting.

I would say you probably want SOMEONE in your party who can be a fast talker at the door.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Anyone remember which book the Federated-Boeing Bumblebee is in? Cause that sounds like it would be right up this characters alley to my mind.

Think heavily armored Rotodrone with a heavy weapon mount and an LMG that comes with the drone.

[JackVII]

Anyone remember which book the Federated-Boeing Bumblebee is in? Cause that sounds like it would be right up this characters alley to my mind.

Think heavily armored Rotodrone with a heavy weapon mount and an LMG that comes with the drone.

It's in the Nothing Personal Enhanced Fiction. Backgammon (the author) was nice enough to post a PDF of the gamestats that were typically released for free along with the fiction itself.

Link to Post

Also, the Targeting Autosoft is supposed to be R3. Also, make sure to put a gas-vent system on that MMG!

[Sterling]

Ok first and foremost this character sounds incredibly MAD.

Sorry to jump in on the thread but I've seen this acronym several times and I have no idea what it means.  Can someone enlighten this British Fossil?

[Tjaeden]

Okay, I'm getting one of those!

I will work up some Chummer stats and let you guys know how this unfolds.

For Priority System:
A - Attributes
B - Money
C - Skills
D - Human
E - Magic

Positive Qualities: 1st Impression (maybe gear-head)
Negative: BTL Addiction, Dependent, Weak Immune System, Distinctive Style

I can spend more Karma on skills, as needed.

So, to use that Bumblebee drone, I would need Pilot [Air] + Reaction to Fly, and Gunnery + What to shoot?  And you add the targeting autosoft to the gunnery roll, right?

MAD = Multiple Attribute Dependency, referring to characters who cannot take advantage of a "dump" stat, like Paladins/Monks, and apparently Face-Riggers, lol.

[Sterling]

MAD = Multiple Attribute Dependency, referring to characters who cannot take advantage of a "dump" stat, like Paladins/Monks, and apparently Face-Riggers, lol.

Thank you!

It was driving me... well... you know.

[JackVII]

So, to use that Bumblebee drone, I would need Pilot [Air] + Reaction to Fly, and Gunnery + What to shoot?  And you add the targeting autosoft to the gunnery roll, right?

The Gunnery issue is one of those things that people fought over forever as the book seemed to indicate different things. It's either Agility or Logic. The way I play it is to use Logic only for sensor-assisted attacks (p.184). I also have that all remote-fired weapons, including drones, have to use sensor-assisted attacks by default. It helps to sew up the issue, although it really pushes independently operated drones into FA firing or suppressing fire only as their accuracy becomes very limited. If you allow sensor array upgrades, that can help. Additionally, you can do Active Sensor targeting to maintain the weapon's accuracy, but you have to take the action to achieve a sensor lock.

Autosofts are just the drone's skills. If you're jumped in, you use your own gunnery skill, the Targeting Autosoft doesn't help (unless you're on the off chance an AI with the Spotter advanced program).

[Tjaeden]

Thanks for all the help guys!

Learned more here than reading the book =/

Here is my final write-up:

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: A - 24 Attributes
Special: E - Mundane
Skills: C - 28 Skills/2 Skill Groups
Resources: B - 325,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 4
REA: 5
STR: 2
CHA: 5
INT: 4
LOG: 6
WIL: 2
EDG: 5

Essence: 4

Aeronautics Mechanic      : 2                      Pool: 8
Automotive Mechanic        : 2                      Pool: 8
Industrial Mechanic          : 2                      Pool: 8
Nautical Mechanic            : 2                      Pool: 8

Computer                           : 1                      Pool: 7
Con                                      : 1                      Pool: 6
Electronic Warfare            : 1                      Pool: 7
Etiquette                             : 1                      Pool: 6
Gunnery                              : 6                      Pool: 10
Hacking                              : 1                      Pool: 7
Leadership                        : 6                      Pool: 11
Longarms                          : 4                      Pool: 8
Negotiation                        : 1                      Pool: 6
Perception                          : 1                      Pool: 5
Pilot Aircraft                        : 4                      Pool: 9
Pilot Ground Craft             : 4                      Pool: 9
Pistols                                 : 1                      Pool: 5
Sneaking                            : 1                      Pool: 5

== Qualities ==
Addiction (Moderate) (BTLs)
Dependent (Inconvenience)
Distinctive Style
First Impression
Gearhead
Incompetent (Close Combat)
Weak Immune System

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Control Rig Rating 2 - ALPHA
Datajack - ALPHA
Smartlink - ALPHA
Tailored Pheromones Rating 1 - ALPHA

== Commlink ==
Vulcan Liegelord (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 5, FWL: 6)

== Vehicles ==
GMC Sidewinder (SUV)
   +Sensor Array Rating 2
Horizon Flying Eye w/Flash-Pak and Grenade (Minidrone) x5
   +Grenade: Flash-Pak
   +Grenade: Thermal Smoke
   +Sensor Array Rating 3

Plus that Bumblebee x1

Karma Left: 28 - the GM is letting me spend 2 points per specialization after character creation.

Didn't list all the extra gear/weapons.

Question - don't Riggers get more Initiative with a RCC/being jacked in?  Or is that older rules?