[Sendaz]

AJ had a post down in Upcoming about being able to ping Jason about current projects and upcoming releases of which one caught the eye

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Rigger 5: Just what it sounds like! And years before the end of Fifth Edition …

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Who says Mr. Hardy doesn't have a sense of humor despite all the ribbing we give him and CGL?  

So with visions of drones and fast cars dancing in our heads, we recall that little over a year back Wakshaani had a post that went like this:

So, RIggers. The oft-overlooked, usually unloved stepchild of Shadowrun. Back in the day, they were the guy who said "I'll keep the van running," and stayed outside for the whole adventure. Later, they got drones, and suddenly the sound of dakka filled the skies. Each time they finally got their book of toys, it heralded a whole new edition, so they barely even got to use them before they lost them.

I'll freely confess that I love the lil' guys, and furthermore I made a lobby effort to change things up by making the Rigger book the *first* book for SR5 but, clearly, I lost that one. But I'm in a mood today and I'd like to chat about them a bit. Mind you, I hit my dayjob in about an hour and a half, so most chatting I'll be doing *after* work, but I figured I might as well seed things here.

So, before we go further, big note here:

DON'T DROP STATS HERE, AND TRY TO NOT GET SPECIFIC!

There are legal things when you start in about "I want a Harley Davidson K943 with a speed of ..." if that gets printed later, then heads roll. So, none of that.

Seriously.

From there, vague is better in a general sense. "I want more anthromorphic drones" is fine. "Giant mecha!" also fine. "I want Optimus Prime"... not so much.

So, that said, here's a few questins I have for Dumpshock.

First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)

Similar to a bit  above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)

There's bound to be something I'm forgetting, but these are the tirst things that tumble out of my head this morning.

Again, please remember that if you get too specific or stat things out, it's an untouchable thing, so walk softly!

  So using the questions above, what would you like to see in the Rigger book?

To get the ball rolling:


First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
That's a tough one as both offer a lot to a rigger.
Percentage wise maybe more vehicles and definitely more/better rules on handling and modifying same. 
Drones should still get some love, but give the cars a starting point at least.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
That is a pretty good spread right there as most often you are going to be dealing with more civvie/sec level stuff, with just a sprinkle of mil spec.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
Civvie / Sec Level please to start off on.
Things that the average runner could get ahead of and actually use predominately.
Again, Mil spec is nice but really that is a tier higher than the average runner should have to be messing with on a regular basis.  Save that for the add on.


Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book). 
Depends on what they put into the write up.  Having half a page devoted to an item and still doesn't tell you how many seats it has is sort of a waste.  Maybe a compromise of smaller write up and small art pics with an occasional big art piece for iconic items.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
Ground 50 / Air 30 / Water 15 / Other 5

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Once upon a time I would have said build from scratch, but honestly Mods are a better way to go and tons easier on the player.
A true build it from scratch figure how a mech type could build/bootstrap the equipment necessary to do a sub-facility would be cool, but that may need to be in a separate e-book as that probably is not the first port of call for a lot of the riggers, who will just want to be doing fast mods on their rides.

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Both.  Yes it is an overlap, but this is a case where both parties can effectively use them and some players might get one book or the other and this is should be available to either.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
Ares Warhammer and KE/LS MCCDS-01 “DOUGH-MASTER” MOBILE COMMAND CENTER/DOUGHNUT SHOP

Because awesome never dies.

[Deathshroud09]

Not trying to get off topic, but in terms of legality, how much do the creators of these books really have to worry about having things in their works just so happen to match up with things written on a public forum? As far as i know none of this should be under any sort of protection.

[nylanfs]

Here, none. Read the ToE.

[Deathshroud09]

Not trying to get off topic, but in terms of legality, how much do the creators of these books really have to worry about having things in their works just so happen to match up with things written on a public forum? As far as i know none of this should be under any sort of protection.

Thanks. Now, back on topic.


First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
While my first reaction is "why not both?", i can understand the reasons this cannot be. I would personally prefer more focus on drones as it seems they tend to play a much more substantial role in play. That said, both aspects are in pretty dire need of base mechanical crunch (mods and such). Specific models can always be added in subsequent splatbooks.

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
I think that distribution is pretty good given what you're usually going to be dealing with as a shadowrunner, i'd love to see a dedicated "military" book in future though.

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
See above. Probably with a little more focus on security for usefulness sake. On a side note i'd love to have some fluff on civilian drone culture, and to tie into that maybe some concealment factors (transforming drone backpacks?).

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book). 
I'm an absolute sucker for art, but riggers are in such dire need of serious crunch that i think we're going to have to compromise. I'll probably have to echo Sendaz on this.

Similar to a bit above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
I'll echo Sendaz again on this.

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
This is a difficult call, but i think sticking with a mod system is the way to go for now, just to get rigging into a more playable state. You could probably make an entire book on Shadowrun "construction/fabrication."

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
It depends on how much space those rules are going to take up, as i wouldn't want to take away from other content.

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
Not familiar enough with the previous Shadowrun setting (yet) to really comment on this.

[Medicineman]

I want to pimp my ride !
 So I hope to find rules to modify Vehicles (just like in SR4A )
What you (CGL not You personally ) did in Run & Gun with modifying Guns was so meagerly compared to 4a it was a shame
I Hope you make up for that in the Riggerbook

With a hopeful Dance
Medicineman

[MijRai]

Here's my take.

First, would you rather the focus be more on vehicles, more on drones, or evenly split?
I'd want an even split, but given how games have been going, a 40/60 split would probably be better. 

Would you rather vehicles be more civillian style, security, or military? (For instance, 60 civillian/30 security/10 military, for percentages.)
I'd put it at 50/35/15 in that order; put the military as SOTA mil-spec stuff, the high-end of the tier, sort of a 'cap' on how good things can get outside of multi-billion nuyen prototype next-gen models.  Then go your various security models (perhaps some surplus military as well), then your civilian things. 

Would you rather the drones be more civillian style, security, or military?
40/40/20 split respectively would be perfect here.  I want some mil-spec, a good amount of security, and of course a bunch of civilian models I can weaponize for shenanigans (who doesn't love a Renraku wimp drone with a minigun?). 

Would you rather have fewer things with large write-ups and art (For example, Run and Gun style) or more things with smaller write-ups and little-to-no art (Similar to the SR5 core book)
More items, smaller write-ups, more stats.  I want plenty of options, not plenty of fluff in this case.  It's more fun when there's a good kernel of information you can build on. 

Similar to a bit  above, how would you like to see a split between ground, air, water, or "other" transportation? (Shadowrun! In! SPaaaaaaaaaace!)
I'd say 50/30/15/5 on Ground, Air, Water and Space, myself.  The space option I'd only have as a few models so others who take their games up there have something to build on.  Space 'runs aren't my cup of tea. 

Mods would seem a no-brainer, but would you like to see a "Build-it-from-scratch" system, or is that a waste of space since no one buys a Facility?
Yes.  Being able to build your own drones/vehicles, or doing the mods themselves, is integral to making a good rigger, in my opinion.  It actually makes a reason to buy a Facility, which is probably why people don't bother getting one at the moment. 

Should Autosoft and Pilot programming rules be found in the Rigger book or in the Matrix book?
Rigger, hands down.  Having to hunt through books is a pain, try to consolidate what's needed with where it should be. 

What vehicles/drones that have been published in previous editions need to make a comeback? (Merucry Comet or DEATH!)
I honestly don't have any opinions here, never got too attached to any vehicles.  Well...  The Aztlan ship model that Kane stole, that would be nice. 

On top of all of this, I'd love an update/rework on the vehicle rules.  As-is, it's a bit...  Messed up.  Speed especially.  Toughness is a little iffy too, at the moment. 

[tytalan]

I'm not going to go thru all the questions because I see similar what being stated but I do want to put in my 2 cents worth
1. Drones/ Vehicles  I'm going adjust this to 40% drone 50% vehicles and 10% Mecha or frames or whatever.
2. I think that actual Vehicle/Drone/Whatever should only be about 40% of the book the rest should be rules like construction/modification rules.  Buildings rigging rules.  and extra.  One of the things that turned me off when I wanted to play a Rigger was the street samurai got more out of my book that I did.  I don't about Rigger 4 but 1-3 were more of a Vehicle catalogue than a Rigger's book I ended up going thru 3 or 4 books just to pick out my Rigger toys.  I think the Vehicle write ups should be put into PDF's give us a good example set leave the rest of the book for rules.     

[Fabe]

One thing I think needs to be added to any future rigger book is rules and/or stats for vehicle cargo capacity including how much space things take up. As someone who is playing  a Rigger I would like to know what  I can pack into my bulldog and still have room for all members of the team.   A new rigger book would also be a good place to clear up the rules for weapon mounts and ammo capability instead of the band aid solution being used now. 

[All4BigGuns]

Comprehensive vehicle modification rules.

Comprehensive vehicle creation rules. (This stuff about 'runners not having the resources to in-game construct new vehicles' is not a valid excuse not to provide these rules to players and GMs.)

[Darzil]

Just a plea for "if you have some really cool fluff, please include the crunch for it!"

[tytalan]

Something I forgot to suggest more for the RCC this is the Riggers Deck and it need not only construction rules but also to be expanded on a lot. Riggers get 7 pages in the core book this book can fix that if done right.  If the Riggers have to fight the Deckers for control of their toy's than they new better tools to defend with.  Also maybe some information on Techno Riggers.

[AJCarrington]

Echoing All4BigGuns...really would like to see detailed creation and modification rules for vehicles and drones (AND guns ).

[Beta]

I'd like to see being a Rigger made somewhat more modular.  Currently you have some level of (fairly essence intensive) implant and some level of RCC, I'd like to see more options to that, to let people choose a bit more how they will do things -- including for dabblers (decker who sidelines in drones, face who likes to drive VERY fast, etc).  This especially as Rigger is one of those roles that many groups won't have filled, but that shouldn't mean you can't have some fun with fast cars and clever drone usage.   So I don't want all of the book to be vehicles and drones, I would like some of it to be about what goes into the Rigger or what gear the Rigger is carrying. 

I'd like to see vehicle modification rules.  Fabricating vehicles from scratch might be too much -- look how many people and how much time goes into designing a vehicle now!  But at the least the ability to trade off some body and armor for more acceleration or vice-versa, being able to soup up that innocuous looking Ford Americar into something more muscular, setting up your pick-up for serious off-roading, adding armor and firing ports into your van, putting James Bond-ish tricks into a car, and so on.

For drones I'd like to see rules for making them from scratch--or else so much customization that it amounts to the same thing.  If we are going into a maze of tunnels in which we think there are bug spirits, and want a cargo hauling walker drone to bring along extra supplies, and another one on which we could jury rig some pretty heavy weaponry, it would be nice to have guidance beyond the GM going "well, cargo walker sounds medium, adding a firing platform to that sounds hard, so let's call it a medium and a hard extended contest .... "

And a whole bunch of examples of everyday (non-security) drones that runners may have to deal with, hack, or choose to modify.  That could be packed pretty tight, but it would be handy to know how hard to hack the average cleaning drone is, how sharp the sensors are in landscaping drones you might be avoiding, or how much body and armor that freight moving drone you just commandeered as a rolling barrier has.  Include some guidance on size, too -- including for the drones in the main book (how tall is the crawler drone-- can it hide behind a desk?  Could you lash an unconscious dwarf to it?)

Some cool new toys are always welcome, but mostly when they fill in new niches, not just slight tweaks on what we have (that is what the modification rules should cover).  Holes that have come up in my game include:  large trucks, ranged surveillance drones, ultralights, parachutes/hang-gliders with wireless bonuses for greater control and precision, ATVs, 'hive-mind' drones (very small, individually pretty stupid, but in a network with a central controller that is more intelligent), drones designed for capture and restraint, tracking drones (for places you'd never bring a blood-hound), and tele-presence drones (something you'd jump into remotely to be 'present' at a particular site and interact much like you normally would--i.e. not designed in particular for security)

[Aria]

More anthroform drones! 

[Csjarrat]

New options and mods for RCCs, more drones and customisation of drones, Inc armour. I'd like some water based drones as well, we've not had any decent choice in a few editions.
More vehicles Inc rules for upgrades like oil sprayers and chameleon coating.
New rules for weapon mounts, current ones are full of holes.
Cargo capacity would be good, as would sizing of drones.