[Strange]

Ok, I have 2 builds of a similar Mystic adept.  Both have a rating 4 Katana focus.  He is an elf from Tir Tairngire, and he is a private investigator who does magical investigations.  Here goes.

Strange v.1
A: 24 Attributes
B: Mystic Adept - 4 Magic/7 Spells, 2 magic skills rating 4
C: Elf, Special attributes 3
D: - 50,000
E: 18 Skills

B:3
A: 5
R: 5/6
S: 5
C: 3
W: 5
L: 3
E: 2
M: 6
Init: 12+ 2d6
Positive qualities: Mentor Spirit (Dragon Slayer, +2 Dice Combat Spells, +2 Dice Ettiquette)
Negative qualities: Code of Honor (Help the Helpless), Distinctive style (accent, Tattoos), SINner (National, Tir Tairngire)
Limits: Physical 7, Mental 6, Social 6, Astral 6

Skills:
Arcana 1
Assensing 4
Astral Combat 4
Blades 5
Counterspelling 4
Perception 3
Spellcasting 5

Spells: Ball Lightning, Manabolt, Analyze Truth, Detect Individual, Heal, Improved Invisibility, Levitate

Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Attribute Boost (AGI) 4, Combat Sense 4, Critical Strike(Blades), Improved Reflexes 1
Tradition Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with WIL + INT 11
Contact: Talismonger (3,3)
$50,000

2 Months Low Lifestyle, $4,000
Lined Coat (Normal Jacket) $900
Armor Jacket (Run Jacket) $ 1000
Forearm Guards $300
Katana Weapon Focus, Level 4 $29,000
Autopicker (rating 1) $ 250
Glasses w/image link $150
Hermes Ikon $3000
Fake Licenses (2, both rank 4, Private investigator and Magician) $1600
Still have $9,825 to spend

Strange v.2
A: 24 Attributes
B: Mystic Adept - 4 Magic/7 Spells, 2 magic skills rating 4
C: Elf, Special attributes 3
D: - 50,000
E: 18 Skills

B:3
A: 5
R: 4(5)
S: 4
C: 8
I: 4
L: 2
W: 5
E: 2
M: 6
Init: 9 + 2d6
Positive qualities: Mentor Spirit (Dragon Slayer, +2 Dice Combat Spells, +2 Dice Ettiquette)
Negative qualities: Code of Honor (Help the Helpless), Distinctive style (accent, Tattoos), SINner (National, Tir Tairngire)
Limits: Physical 6, Mental 5, Social 9, Astral 9

Skills:
Arcana 1
Assensing 4
Astral Combat 4
Blades 5
Counterspelling 4
Etiguette 1(Karma)
Perception 3
Spellcasting 5

Spells: Ball Lightning, Manabolt, Analyze Truth, Detect Individual, Heal, Improved Invisibility, Levitate

Adept Powers: Astral Perception, Attribute Boost (AGI) 4, Combat Sense 4, Critical Strike(Blades), Improved Reflexes 1
Tradition: Path of the Wheel, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA 13
Contact: Talismonger (4,4), Police Chief (5,3)
$50,000

2 Months Low Lifestyle, $4,000
Lined Coat (Normal Jacket) $900
Armor Jacket (Run Jacket) $ 1000
Forearm Guards $300
Katana Weapon Focus, Level 4 $29,000
Autopicker (rating 1) $ 250
Glasses w/image link $150
Hermes Ikon $3000
Fake Licenses (2, both rank 4, Private investigator and Magician) $1600
Still have $9,825 to spend

The first one is a bit better in normal combat(limit 7), but quite a bit worse with spells(limit 6 astral, Drain resist 11) and astral combat.  The second is amazing with spells(Limit 9 astral, 13 drain resist dice), and only a little worse with the sword (Limit 6)

Which seems more viable? I think at the moment I am leaning towards version 2.  Thanks for critique anywhere on either builds, guys!

[Whiskeyjack]

Your build #1 seems to be missing an INT stat.

The second one is probably better, except Astral Combat is totally pointless (and wasting 4/18 skill points on it is even worse), starting with Arcana 1 is totally pointless, AGI Boost 4 is 2-3 more than you will ever need and provides no benefit, not having Summoning is a bad idea, having no way to do stun damage (e.g. Stunbolt) is terrible, and BOD 3 isn't ideal to be in melee.

You seem like you're trying to be kind of like a D&D eldritch knight. It works about as well in SR as it does in D&D, which is to say poorly.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

The only Eldrich Knights that work in D&D/Pathfinder are either super high lvl, Pathfinder's Magus class, or some super cheesy 3rd party thing. Sadly, SR has the same issues.

[Strange]

Your build #1 seems to be missing an INT stat.

The second one is probably better, except Astral Combat is totally pointless (and wasting 4/18 skill points on it is even worse), starting with Arcana 1 is totally pointless, AGI Boost 4 is 2-3 more than you will ever need and provides no benefit, not having Summoning is a bad idea, having no way to do stun damage (e.g. Stunbolt) is terrible, and BOD 3 isn't ideal to be in melee.

You seem like you're trying to be kind of like a D&D eldritch knight. It works about as well in SR as it does in D&D, which is to say poorly.

His INT is 5. The reason for astral combat is because he sometimes has to fight astral beings. From an RP standpoint was where arcana 1 comes in, but I don't mind putting that point elsewhere. I thought about summoning (and banishing) but I don't have a lot of skill points. Not trying to be an eldritch knight(kind of sick of that regurgitated response), like the description says he deals with magical baddies.
Why is the second one better, in your opinion?

So, with that in mind, anyone have adept power suggestions? Should I replace mana bolt with stun bolt? Why is it a terrible idea to have no stun ability?  See any way to shift the priorities to make it better?

[Whiskeyjack]

Astral Combat is a skill totally obviated by Stunbolt and/or hitting things with your magic sword. You can't astral project because you're not a magician. If you're astral perceiving and want to fight a spirit you may as well Stunbolt or sword because either option is head and shoulders better. Astral Combat itself is pretty much worthless.

[Whiskeyjack]

Build 2 is better for a higher drain stat.

If you can't deal stun you can never participate in taking someone alive, which can be a problem.

I'd probably lower Attribre Boost to 2, take Astral Perception as a qi focus, and put the points into Improved Reflexes 2 and more Critical Strike

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

You can only take crit strike once per melee skill.

[Strange]

Astral Combat is a skill totally obviated by Stunbolt and/or hitting things with your magic sword. You can't astral project because you're not a magician. If you're astral perceiving and want to fight a spirit you may as well Stunbolt or sword because either option is head and shoulders better. Astral Combat itself is pretty much worthless.

"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook.

In order to hit astral only creatures with my sword, I NEED ASTRAL COMBAT. I guess technically I wouldn't need it, but without it I would never hit.  In astral combat, my attack is resolved Astral Combat + Willpower [Accuracy] which means 4+5+4 for focus so 13 dice limited by the accuracy of the sword, which is 7.  If I remove my astral combat I am rolling 9 dice.  Don't see how that is better.  In astral combat, my damage with said sword is calculated using my CHA score instead of STR score, so I would be doing 3 more damage per hit.  So tell me again how that the astral combat skill is worthless?

Build 2 is better for a higher drain stat.

If you can't deal stun you can never participate in taking someone alive, which can be a problem.

I'd probably lower Attribre Boost to 2, take Astral Perception as a qi focus, and put the points into Improved Reflexes 2 and more Critical Strike

I agree with the second build being a better caster, and only a little bit worse with the sword, so I am going with that build.  I can't take astral perception as a qi focus as I have no more karma to spend and it wouldn't fit the character concept if I didn't have it from start.  I might try and see if I can squeeze Improved reflexes 2 in by removing some attribute boost, but what would I put more critical strike onto, considering that you can only get it once per weapon group?

Thanks for trying help!

[Halinn]

Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.

[Strange]

Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.

What?  Did you not read my previous post?  I pulled straight from the rulebook. 

"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook
Emphasis mine.

This character's job is basically investigating magical things.  If someone is being "haunted" by a purely astral being, and my character wants to kill said being, he needs astral combat to be able to do so well.  If he doesn't have astral combat, it defaults to WIL.  What you guys should probably be typing is that I should invest MORE into it so that I am better at it.

[Reaver]

There are some issues to consider.

1:  because you only have astral perception, and NOT projection. You are tied to the ground and restricted by your physical environment. An astral entity is not so confined. Thus they can stay WELL outside of melee range simply by being above you, or using your terrian limitation against you. Hence why astral spellcasting trumps astral combat. (You do have manabolt, so at least you have that covered)

Damage on the astral for melee combat uses your CHA stat, not strength. (So if you REALLY insist, build 2 is better just for the higher CHA)

2: I am assuming a shamanic tradition?

[adzling]

so what if your astral projecting and fighting a dual natured critter like a ghoul or hellhound?
would you use astral combat or blades (assuming a sword weapon focus)?
must be astral combat right?

if so having a small astral combat splash with a weapon focus sounds like a good idea for taking out dual natured critters....

eentersting...

[Strange]

There are some issues to consider.

1:  because you only have astral perception, and NOT projection. You are tied to the ground and restricted by your physical environment. An astral entity is not so confined. Thus they can stay WELL outside of melee range simply by being above you, or using your terrian limitation against you. Hence why astral spellcasting trumps astral combat. (You do have manabolt, so at least you have that covered)

Damage on the astral for melee combat uses your CHA stat, not strength. (So if you REALLY insist, build 2 is better just for the higher CHA)

2: I am assuming a shamanic tradition?

1: Yeah, I'm aware of that.  I keep vacillating between Mystic Adept and Full Magician because of astral projection and adept powers.
I already mentioned that astral damage is calculated with CHA
2: You assume wrong.  Build 1 is Chaos, build 2 is path of the wheel.  They are listed within the builds.

so what if your astral projecting and fighting a dual natured critter like a ghoul or hellhound?
would you use astral combat or blades (assuming a sword weapon focus)?
must be astral combat right?

if so having a small astral combat splash with a weapon focus sounds like a good idea for taking out dual natured critters....

eentersting...

Nope, astral combat is solely for fighting purely astral beings.  For dual natured you have to use physical.  You would use blades, in this case.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Problems with astral combat is it is melee, even with astral movement speeds, range generally win, plus spells can be used in melee ranges with little to know penalties. Stunbolts range is line of sight and without astral projection you can't really chase atral beings.

[ZeldaBravo]

Astral combat is something that happens on the astral plane. Mysads can't project, so that's not something for you to worry about.

What?  Did you not read my previous post?  I pulled straight from the rulebook. 

"Astral combat is resolved in the same way as physical
combat. Astrally perceiving and dual-natured characters
use their physical attributes and skills to fight opponents
with a physical body, and their Astral Combat
+ Willpower to fight wholly astral entities."pg 315 rulebook
Emphasis mine.

This character's job is basically investigating magical things.  If someone is being "haunted" by a purely astral being, and my character wants to kill said being, he needs astral combat to be able to do so well.  If he doesn't have astral combat, it defaults to WIL.  What you guys should probably be typing is that I should invest MORE into it so that I am better at it.

OR you can invest more into spellcasting to stunbolt said astral entity (or anybody else, actually) into oblivion.
Think about what happens if a spirit moves UP and out of your reach. It's not like he has to stay in melee with you.
Also, astral entities have a WALKING speed of 100m. You just cannot keep up with them since you cannot project.