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Which is better?

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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #105 on: <11-12-15/1204:37> »
No, they don't "lose out".
Not having access to spirits sucks. Not having access to spellcasting sucks.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Strange

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« Reply #106 on: <11-12-15/1306:08> »
For a burnout mage, doesn't aspected sorcerer kind of fit?  I mean, you are going to invest in some combat skills because your lower magic rating makes you more likely to take drain, so you are less likely to cast combat spells.  You spread your skill set thinner by doing so, specializing seems pretty efficient at that point.  To me, if you are playing something other than just the regular 'magician' you have to specialize or risk being totally ineffective instead of just less versatile.  I still don't know about losing astral projection, though.  For a burnout kind of guy, being aspected allows you to only worry about a couple of mental skills (for instance, intuition and willpower only if you have the proper path) and it won't handicap you in astral space because you can't go there, only perceive.  Now your physical stats will be better.  Less of a mage, to be sure, but is it enough of a mage to handle the job that the mage needs to do?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #107 on: <11-12-15/1414:50> »
Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Strange

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« Reply #108 on: <11-12-15/1430:12> »
Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #109 on: <11-12-15/1455:57> »
Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?
If that role is "killing spirits," then they can be.

But my point was more that adepts can mechanically benefit from burning or where mages really cannot. Losing 1 ESS can be acceptable for a Mage but losing more generally isn't.
Playability > verisimilitude.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #110 on: <11-12-15/1458:23> »
No, they don't "lose out".
Not having access to spirits sucks. Not having access to spellcasting sucks.

With Aspected, you're playing a specialist. With Full Mage, you're playing a generalist. By very nature, it takes fewer generation resources for Aspected to be good at their area than it does for the Full Mage to be good at all he can do.
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Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #111 on: <11-12-15/1529:15> »
Sadly, the basic character generation rule (Priority) doesn't support that. Alchemy is this edition sucks (outside of the new corner cases with MysAds and archery). And only having either summoning or Spellcasting limits what a mage can do.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for ¥1 million/4 once.

Halinn

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« Reply #112 on: <11-12-15/1555:36> »
I really wish that aspected magicians at the least had 1 higher magic at all priority levels (maybe except D). Giving them the same at priority C as full magicians is terrible, and 5 at B means that D elves or C orks can't get maxed without spending 30 karma.

It wouldn't fix everything, but it would at least give them a lot more options in viable builds.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #113 on: <11-12-15/1613:28> »
Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
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Strange

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« Reply #114 on: <11-12-15/1708:08> »
Just FYI, burnout adept is much more mechanically supported than burnout Mage.
Are you saying that an adept with cyber is a replacement for a mage?
If that role is "killing spirits," then they can be.

But my point was more that adepts can mechanically benefit from burning or where mages really cannot. Losing 1 ESS can be acceptable for a Mage but losing more generally isn't.
Yeah, I totally get that.  Unfortunately, that doesn't help with the question!
 
Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
Agreed.  We are actually discussing if we should go karma point build or maybe the life modules build.  One allows you to perfectly customize your character, the other outfits them with a more realistic skill set, at the expense of specialization.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #115 on: <11-12-15/1744:57> »
Karma has some of the same issues when you take certain metatyoes or want high stats.

Really the 5e generation (and ware costs) is reactionary to 4e's ease of One True Builds and hitting competency caps straight from chargen.
Playability > verisimilitude.

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #116 on: <11-13-15/0007:04> »
No, they don't "lose out".
Priority is just a bad generation system. Most things other than max Strength/Body Trolls are better served by the other generation options.
I'm sorry if I'm being rude but have you played 5e? First you say that mentor spirits are not worth 5 karma, now this.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #117 on: <11-13-15/0032:14> »
Put together an Aspected Sorceror earlier today that I'd actually consider using. Since I don't mess with rituals, I only needed four magical skills--Assensing, Arcana, Counterspelling and Spellcasting--so he could be good at a few other things. Went kind of a stealthy combat mage, and it turned out pretty decent.
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ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #118 on: <11-13-15/0035:05> »
Aspected mages would be great if they had free spells.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #119 on: <11-13-15/0046:30> »
Aspected mages would be great if they had free spells.

You do need to be careful, but using the karma generation, it seems to really work out. Honestly, a newbie would probably be better served to play an Aspected Sorceror for his first Awakened due to their specializing.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen